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Post by silence on Sept 1, 2013 22:56:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. The existential line of thinking is simply born out of confusion. As such, it's important to recognize that you have not met an enemy. Thought is not out to get you or trip you up. It is literally the end result of a deep internal confusion. If it can be clearly seen, there will be compassion rather than struggle and frustration. When you cease to divide yourself and go to war, there is no where left to hide. Thought is not " the end result of a deep internal confusion", it is a natural interactive process.. if it can be seen clearly, there will be compassion rather than struggle and frustration. When you realize that all versions of 'you' are still 'you', there is no thought of hiding or of places to hide.. Be well.. Sorry, I meant existential thought and questions not thought in general. |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 2, 2013 11:41:11 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Thought is not " the end result of a deep internal confusion", it is a natural interactive process.. if it can be seen clearly, there will be compassion rather than struggle and frustration. When you realize that all versions of 'you' are still 'you', there is no thought of hiding or of places to hide.. Be well.. Sorry, I meant existential thought and questions not thought in general. Cool.. existential thinking was born from realizing the inherent contradiction between what is actually happening, and what people 'think' is happening, the only confusion is 'why' people choose to believe something other than what 'is'.. Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Sept 2, 2013 14:19:40 GMT -5
Greetings.. Sorry, I meant existential thought and questions not thought in general. Cool.. existential thinking was born from realizing the inherent contradiction between what is actually happening, and what people 'think' is happening, the only confusion is 'why' people choose to believe something other than what 'is'.. Be well.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 2, 2013 16:00:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Cool.. existential thinking was born from realizing the inherent contradiction between what is actually happening, and what people 'think' is happening, the only confusion is 'why' people choose to believe something other than what 'is'.. Be well.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. That sounds like a lot of 'thinking'.. Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Sept 2, 2013 22:50:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. That sounds like a lot of 'thinking'.. Be well.. That sounds like a meaningless response. |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 3, 2013 4:55:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Cool.. existential thinking was born from realizing the inherent contradiction between what is actually happening, and what people 'think' is happening, the only confusion is 'why' people choose to believe something other than what 'is'.. Be well.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. Reality is a happening, a process.. your struggle with understanding 'time' is 'your' struggle.. there is an interval between your last post and your reading of this post, between your birth and your current manifested presence, the word 'time' is used to represent how we measure that interval.. we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process, the intervals between events happening is not an illusion.. but, it is cool to pretend that 'time is an illusion', it exercises the imagination with meaningless word-games.. Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 12:16:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. Reality is a happening, a process.. your struggle with understanding 'time' is 'your' struggle.. there is an interval between your last post and your reading of this post, between your birth and your current manifested presence, the word 'time' is used to represent how we measure that interval.. we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process, the intervals between events happening is not an illusion.. but, it is cool to pretend that 'time is an illusion', it exercises the imagination with meaningless word-games.. Be well.. When I hear you say "we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process" I hear you describing the practical purposes for the concept of time. How I understand the topic at hand is that 'time is an illusion' is not incompatible with what you are saying. The illusion is comprised of conceptual divisions and boundaries. The intervals you speak of are created using those conceptual boundaries. Without the conceptual boundaries there are no intervals, no time. You're right, in a sense we are all pretending. Meaningless word-games are played by all of us. Your 'still mind' for example is just another game piece. |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 3, 2013 12:36:45 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Reality is a happening, a process.. your struggle with understanding 'time' is 'your' struggle.. there is an interval between your last post and your reading of this post, between your birth and your current manifested presence, the word 'time' is used to represent how we measure that interval.. we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process, the intervals between events happening is not an illusion.. but, it is cool to pretend that 'time is an illusion', it exercises the imagination with meaningless word-games.. Be well.. When I hear you say "we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process" I hear you describing the practical purposes for the concept of time. How I understand the topic at hand is that 'time is an illusion' is not incompatible with what you are saying. The illusion is comprised of conceptual divisions and boundaries. The intervals you speak of are created using those conceptual boundaries. Without the conceptual boundaries there are no intervals, no time. You're right, in a sense we are all pretending. Meaningless word-games are played by all of us. Your 'still mind' for example is just another game piece. Are you certain there's no interval/duration between birth and now? are you certain the growth and development of your body/mind vehicle occurred without an interval/duration between birth and now? the still mind observes this and realizes now is not then, that it cannot eat last month's meals.. Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 12:48:23 GMT -5
Greetings.. When I hear you say "we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process" I hear you describing the practical purposes for the concept of time. How I understand the topic at hand is that 'time is an illusion' is not incompatible with what you are saying. The illusion is comprised of conceptual divisions and boundaries. The intervals you speak of are created using those conceptual boundaries. Without the conceptual boundaries there are no intervals, no time. You're right, in a sense we are all pretending. Meaningless word-games are played by all of us. Your 'still mind' for example is just another game piece. Are you certain there's no interval/duration between birth and now? are you certain the growth and development of your body/mind vehicle occurred without an interval/duration between birth and now? the still mind observes this and realizes now is not then, that it cannot eat last month's meals.. Be well.. As I understand what you mean by 'still mind' there is no question as to birth or death or intervals or time. Questioning the certainty of such are as you say pretend play. There is no stillness in the mind that is judging now versus then. |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 3, 2013 14:33:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Are you certain there's no interval/duration between birth and now? are you certain the growth and development of your body/mind vehicle occurred without an interval/duration between birth and now? the still mind observes this and realizes now is not then, that it cannot eat last month's meals.. Be well.. As I understand what you mean by 'still mind' there is no question as to birth or death or intervals or time. Questioning the certainty of such are as you say pretend play. There is no stillness in the mind that is judging now versus then.That is a self-evident observation, devoid of judgment.. "now versus then" may be debatable pointers, but they are pointing to a self-evident actuality.. Be well.. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 3, 2013 15:18:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. Are you certain there's no interval/duration between birth and now? are you certain the growth and development of your body/mind vehicle occurred without an interval/duration between birth and now? the still mind observes this and realizes now is not then, that it cannot eat last month's meals.. Be well.. Questioning the certainty of such are as you say pretend play. There is no stillness in the mind that is judging now versus then. In what I take you take still mind to refer to, "now" is one word too many, and "then" is two too many. Change is what is self-evident and anything beyond that involves an abstraction. Useful abstractions, interesting abstractions, heck, there are even some abstractions that have the potential to clarify ... but they're all just abstractions. Just wanted to register agreement maxy ... |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 3, 2013 16:38:03 GMT -5
As I understand what you mean by 'still mind' there is no question as to birth or death or intervals or time. Questioning the certainty of such are as you say pretend play. There is no stillness in the mind that is judging now versus then. In what I take you take still mind to refer to, "now" is one word too many, and "then" is two too many. Change is what is self-evident and anything beyond that involves an abstraction. Useful abstractions, interesting abstractions, heck, there are even some abstractions that have the potential to clarify ... but they're all just abstractions. Just wanted to register agreement maxy ... Hmmmm. The way I understand what's being referred by the words "still mind" is pure awareness without cognition/distinction. From the perspective of pure awareness not even change is self evident, and this is why many advaita teachers say that a deep teaching is, "Nothing is happening." Time, space, causality, selfhood, thingness, change, and all other distinctions vanish utterly when the mind is quiescent. Zen's "absolute samadhi" and advaita's "nirvikalpa samadhi" are states of pure awareness with no content. They can't be described other than to say they are states of pure awareness. In the same way, when the mind does not imagine what the eyes see, no movement or content of any kind is distinguished. There is awareness, but it is not an awareness of something (some thing). Perhaps the phrase "still mind" is being used in some other way, but that's what I would use that phrase to point to. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 3, 2013 16:48:21 GMT -5
In what I take you take still mind to refer to, "now" is one word too many, and "then" is two too many. Change is what is self-evident and anything beyond that involves an abstraction. Useful abstractions, interesting abstractions, heck, there are even some abstractions that have the potential to clarify ... but they're all just abstractions. Just wanted to register agreement maxy ... Hmmmm. The way I understand what's being referred by the words "still mind" is pure awareness without cognition/distinction. From the perspective of pure awareness not even change is self evident, and this is why many advaita teachers say that a deep teaching is, "Nothing is happening." Time, space, causality, selfhood, thingness, change, and all other distinctions vanish utterly when the mind is quiescent. Zen's "absolute samadhi" and advaita's "nirvikalpa samadhi" are states of pure awareness with no content. They can't be described other than to say they are states of pure awareness. In the same way, when the mind does not imagine what the eyes see, no movement or content of any kind is distinguished. There is awareness, but it is not an awareness of something (some thing). Perhaps the phrase "still mind" is being used in some other way, but that's what I would use that phrase to point to. Thanks ZD. |
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Post by silence on Sept 3, 2013 17:35:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, the difficulty is that reality is not an event happening in time. It can't be taken by thought and examined with a long string of conclusions and facts. The only way that anything is even 'happening' is by virtue of thought creating the illusion of time and events unfolding into the future. Reality is a happening, a process.. your struggle with understanding 'time' is 'your' struggle.. there is an interval between your last post and your reading of this post, between your birth and your current manifested presence, the word 'time' is used to represent how we measure that interval.. we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process, the intervals between events happening is not an illusion.. but, it is cool to pretend that 'time is an illusion', it exercises the imagination with meaningless word-games.. Be well.. There is a benefit to deep meditation and samadhi type states and if one is actually alert it can become obvious that time, events and intervals at all can cease and yet you will remain. Both time and thought arise as one. The appearance of events with intervals between them is entirely dependent on thought. This doesn't become true when you experience it as you would prefer because we're talking about seeing the illusory nature of experience itself. |
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Post by silence on Sept 3, 2013 17:37:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. When I hear you say "we measure the intervals to organize events that occur at different intervals, at different places in the process" I hear you describing the practical purposes for the concept of time. How I understand the topic at hand is that 'time is an illusion' is not incompatible with what you are saying. The illusion is comprised of conceptual divisions and boundaries. The intervals you speak of are created using those conceptual boundaries. Without the conceptual boundaries there are no intervals, no time. You're right, in a sense we are all pretending. Meaningless word-games are played by all of us. Your 'still mind' for example is just another game piece. Are you certain there's no interval/duration between birth and now? are you certain the growth and development of your body/mind vehicle occurred without an interval/duration between birth and now? the still mind observes this and realizes now is not then, that it cannot eat last month's meals.. Be well.. The still mind doesn't observe any of that stuff. |
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