|
Post by tzujanli on Jul 28, 2013 13:28:48 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes.. Be well.. You do realize I can't take anything you say from this point on even remotely serious right? No.. you will choose what you will, you will understand some of what i post, and you will pretend otherwise.. you are protecting your investment in your self-image.. Be well..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2013 13:37:32 GMT -5
It seems as though this body/mind is meant for action, too much inaction builds up as an energy that feels like desire even when no desire is identified and chased after....but mentation gets in the way of natural and wholistic action. drop the mentation, and let the body/mind go do it's thing unhindered....You will find that the body/mind that is set free of the mentation "operator" is amazingly energetic and active in a highly efficient way. without the "operator" of the body/mind in the way, doing happens unhindered by a "doer". set aside thinking, knowing, and choosing....and DO be action, not thought Steve I have tried to wrap my head around what you are saying about letting knowing go. I would like to tell you a story and see if this is what you are talking about. There is a saying that a mind is a terrible thing to waste and I tell people that a mind is just plain terrible, period. When I deal with native people and there mind set as far as spirit stuff goes, they just let everything go and all sorts of extraordinary things happen. People from what I call the white man world have to take all things apart to it's smallest piece, it has to be carefully labeled and put neatly on a shelf, before they can ever think about just letting go. I find when I am dealing with people from my culture, the white man world, I have to explain things to them before I can get them to the point of just letting go. To get the mind out of the way and just let things happen in ceremony. In the beginning of a ceremony I have to set an intent, but for anything to happen I have to get me and the other people's expectations out of the way. Is this close to what you are saying? In that bit in red, said another way is: I've trying to know about "not knowing"... All of life is a spiritual ceremony, set aside both expectations, and the seeking of expectations. If you would know more, I'm afraid I can't help you, as I don't know :-) If you would gnosis knowing, look with alertness for any type of knowing to arise in you....expectations about the imagined future are a coarse kind of knowing, but there are more subtle forms of knowing as well....observe alertly for knowing, or attempting to know arising in you, but just observe alertly as knowing arises, don't mentate about "knowing". Quiet alert observation is the best teacher, but one should throw away what is learned ;-)
|
|
|
Post by topology on Jul 28, 2013 14:13:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. LOL.. Sounds like you might be choking on a golden shower.. Be well.. On the golden shower, or that which the golden shower emanates from? Now we know what you fantasize about...
|
|
|
Post by silver on Jul 28, 2013 14:41:25 GMT -5
On the golden shower, or that which the golden shower emanates from? Now we know what you fantasize about... .......I really do think it's high time for Peter to take the fencing down.......
|
|
|
Post by topology on Jul 28, 2013 15:12:27 GMT -5
Now we know what you fantasize about... .......I really do think it's high time for Peter to take the fencing down....... Nah, leave the section split up. It's part of the history of the forum. The scars give it character.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Jul 28, 2013 15:20:25 GMT -5
.......I really do think it's high time for Peter to take the fencing down....... Nah, leave the section split up. It's part of the history of the forum. The scars give it character. To be honest, after this early Sunday edition/exchange, I'd say there's scarcely any fence left untrampled.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2013 15:27:22 GMT -5
Nah, leave the section split up. It's part of the history of the forum. The scars give it character. To be honest, after this early Sunday edition/exchange, I'd say there's scarcely any fence left untrampled. I like the split, though perhaps Peter should do a little bit of moderating on this side ;-) it was working out pretty well over here for a bit. Maybe some self regulation is in order....i.e. keep the crassness and shenanigans in the unmoderated section.
|
|
|
Post by topology on Jul 28, 2013 15:32:55 GMT -5
To be honest, after this early Sunday edition/exchange, I'd say there's scarcely any fence left untrampled. I like the split, though perhaps Peter should do a little bit of moderating on this side ;-) it was working out pretty well over here for a bit. Maybe some self regulation is in order....i.e. keep the crassness and shenanigans in the unmoderated section. I'm not going to unless there is an active mod.
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jul 28, 2013 16:38:19 GMT -5
Greetings.. You do realize I can't take anything you say from this point on even remotely serious right? No.. you will choose what you will, you will understand some of what i post, and you will pretend otherwise.. you are protecting your investment in your self-image.. Be well.. This bit is getting a little old don't you think?
|
|
|
Post by earnest on Aug 6, 2013 1:47:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. could you share them please. Yes.. tomorrow, as it is late here and i have an early class.. i'll PM you with the info.. Be well.. hi Tzu, just a reminder you were going to send me some references.
|
|
|
Post by earnest on Aug 12, 2013 5:41:38 GMT -5
Greetings.. could you share them please. Yes.. tomorrow, as it is late here and i have an early class.. i'll PM you with the info.. Be well.. Last reminder on those links. No worries if you're not sending them, but let me know either way.
|
|
|
Post by topology on Aug 13, 2013 11:06:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes.. tomorrow, as it is late here and i have an early class.. i'll PM you with the info.. Be well.. Last reminder on those links. No worries if you're not sending them, but let me know either way. Here, Earnest, I'll help you get them: Tzu apparently is all talk and no walk. Here you are with a sincere interest in what he is offering and he is unable to honor that sincere interest. It really looks like he just responds to people he's in conflict with ideologically. He's moved to act then, but when it comes to someone who is coming to him with no conflict potential, he goes limp. That should motivate him.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Aug 14, 2013 2:13:26 GMT -5
Good gawd, I find this knowing/unknowing knowing crazymaking, but seems that I sense a factoid about it - I mean, just now reading this thread, and reading your post made me think about the 2 sides of a coin - or turning a shirt inside out, heh. Isn't that all it is? It's not really disposing of all the stuff we've learned - we just 'overlook' it, or disregard it, or ignore it. Folks attach an idea, an identification, a familiarity, a knowledge to every thing and every experience. This is a kind of absorption, a taking of a perspective that creates the illusion of an expierence of seperation and differentiation from the undifferentiation of God Union, or, if you are offended by the word God: Limitless, boundlass, undifferentiated Self. One can develop an intelectual understanding of oneness, but this is not gnosis of limitless boundless self. Knowing, identifying, understanding, recognizing, categorizing, discriminating...these are all a part of fixating into a perspective that creates an experience that is an illusion of a seperate or individuated Self. "Not Knowing" is the beginning of a releasing of the perspective that creates the experience of an illusion that seems to be reality... Your reality is an illusion based on perspective, and "knowing" is a way of holding yourself in that perspective. "Not Knowing" is the beggining of releasing from the perspective that creates the illusion of individuation, seperation, and differentiation...."Knowing" is a bit like a set of the blinders that they put on race horses to narrow the view. Removing the blinders is not analogous to turning the shirt inside out ;-) If you are centered in "Knowing", you are centered in a perspective that creates an illusion. There is no "wrongness" in this, it is just simply a kind of limited "Awareness of Self." Silver is right. You view 'not knowing' as a practice even though you know better. You talked about turning attention away from thoughts, which is what she means by "ignore it". Typically, one cannot ignore what they think they know, which is obvious even on this forum, because there is belief and attachment. That's why it's usually necessary to see through those beliefs. Pulling attention away from thoughts may be effective, and may also be endless. In either case, nobody chooses to 'not know' unless they're playing games with themselves.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 3:05:16 GMT -5
Folks attach an idea, an identification, a familiarity, a knowledge to every thing and every experience. This is a kind of absorption, a taking of a perspective that creates the illusion of an expierence of seperation and differentiation from the undifferentiation of God Union, or, if you are offended by the word God: Limitless, boundlass, undifferentiated Self. One can develop an intelectual understanding of oneness, but this is not gnosis of limitless boundless self. Knowing, identifying, understanding, recognizing, categorizing, discriminating...these are all a part of fixating into a perspective that creates an experience that is an illusion of a seperate or individuated Self. "Not Knowing" is the beginning of a releasing of the perspective that creates the experience of an illusion that seems to be reality... Your reality is an illusion based on perspective, and "knowing" is a way of holding yourself in that perspective. "Not Knowing" is the beggining of releasing from the perspective that creates the illusion of individuation, seperation, and differentiation...."Knowing" is a bit like a set of the blinders that they put on race horses to narrow the view. Removing the blinders is not analogous to turning the shirt inside out ;-) If you are centered in "Knowing", you are centered in a perspective that creates an illusion. There is no "wrongness" in this, it is just simply a kind of limited "Awareness of Self." Silver is right. You view 'not knowing' as a practice even though you know better. You talked about turning attention away from thoughts, which is what she means by "ignore it". Typically, one cannot ignore what they think they know, which is obvious even on this forum, because there is belief and attachment. That's why it's usually necessary to see through those beliefs. Pulling attention away from thoughts may be effective, and may also be endless. In either case, nobody chooses to 'not know' unless they're playing games with themselves. Nah....Knowing something, anything, is an action, a kind of doing, all one has to "do" to "not know" is nothing...meaning, don't participate in the action of knowing....just don't do the activity. One might say that this is an automatic activity that just arises, but this is where the realization and acceptence of knowledge and truth really being nothing more than a persoective comes into play. For example....you walk down the street and look at a lamp post and "know" that it is a lamp post, but then you shift perspectives and "know" that it is a particle/wave in superposition, another shift in perspective and you "know" its an illusion of sensory phenomena interpreted and collated in the mindbody....on and on, perspective shifts redefine knowledge and truth, eventually all knowledge about anything is just a subjectivity, eventually you can even get to a perspective of "knowing" that the lamp post is unknowable ISness...but thats still a "knowing" from a specific perspective also....you might say that one sees through the belief of "knowability" and a realization occurs of "not knowing": OF ANYTHING....and once that realization opens into an empty space, knowing things is no longer an atuomated action that one participates in....you are no longer on "autopilot" where knowing activities arise automatically. Knowledge is an activity, not a thing, when one realizes unknowability, the activity of knowing seems to not spontaneously arise anymore....so now when I walk down the street there is no identifying of tree, lamp post, sidewalk etc... There is also no automatic movement to understand and know about things or to move into an idea or belief about stuff etc, unless its needed for communications like this post.. Fundamentally I am agreeing with you, in that seeing through a belief opens into an empty space of realization, and the activities that proceeded around the "seen through" belief naturally fall away. Perhaps where we diverge course is that you have not seen through the "belief in knowability", and therefore can't grasp that the realization that results kinda disapates the unconscious action of moving into "knowing". I dunno where you are at on that last bit, just a guess really....all I can say is that "knowing" is not so much being ignored, as it is not being moved into at all in an automatic unconcious way. It is still available as a tool, like reaching for a fork to eat with, but reaching for knowing isn't an automated reflex action once knowability is seen through.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 3:08:24 GMT -5
Once the belief in "knowability" is released, the action of knowing in an automated way is no longer the habitual state, the mental stillness of "not knowing" is the habitual or natural state.
The activity that arose from the belief in knowability goes away once the belief in knowability is "seen through" or released into realization.
|
|