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Post by enigma on Jul 20, 2013 10:36:09 GMT -5
I would say what one is interested in is what is 'right' for them to explore. Yup. Who the hell are you to say what her interest are or are not? Seriously? You are attempting now to claim authority on where interest moves in others...? Wow. Just when I think I've seen the height of your arrogance, you go off an demonstrate there is yet, more. I post on the same forum as she. I can see how interested she is. She is interested in something here, it's just not ND. She says she's interested because she wants to fit in. Mostly, an interest in it. Yes. All I have to do to know what she needs is to watch where she moves. Currently, she's moving toward NLP. In a more general sense, she's moving toward becoming more conscious. None of this relates directly to ND.
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Post by andrew on Jul 20, 2013 10:37:19 GMT -5
No, to me, the most accurate thing to say would be 'life is all that is' or 'existence is all that is'. Word play. It's all still 'Mind' to you, A, whether you realize it, or not, which is why you capitalize it. It's why you practically orgasm with the singular quote from Niz that it's "all a play of ideas". It's why you go round and round with this play with E. Not that there's anything inherently 'wrong' with any of that. Indeed, life, existence (or whatever you want to call it) does its thing, regardless of what you think about it. You are determined to paint the picture that 'its all still Mind to me'. 'Mind' is just a pointer. But so is 'Being'.
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 10:37:55 GMT -5
This is conceptual objectification. Idealized unity. Integration leaves a line between that integrated and that not integrated. Oneness is not Oneness. Capital letters or quotes are not some magic escape hatch from the inherent limit of language. To say that life is all that is doesn't necessarily mean that there is no essential quality TO life. I resonate with the idea that there is. That's what the conversation last week about the brick was about -- during a woo-woo, one can perceive the life in the inanimate in various ways, and this perception can sort of ... stick ... if you will. If the rational thinking mind is turned on the subject what we see is that there are two movements: 1) A general movement toward disorder. Everything changes and naturally moves from a state of order toward a state of disorder: examples are the initial expansion after the big bang or what happens if you leave a piece of candy out in the sun on a hot day. 2) Within this broader movement there is another movement toward order. Examples are the evolution of the human race and the progression of human culture. Another inorganic example is solar system formation. The thinker will always see this divide, while turning attention away from the thinker reveals what's really going on.
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Post by andrew on Jul 20, 2013 10:38:11 GMT -5
This is the "both/and" ontology. That's Tzu's ontology btw. 'Both/and' is a compromise. Niz says compromise shows lack of earnestness. Its not a compromise, its a realization.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 20, 2013 10:38:32 GMT -5
I think so, too. *shrug* I think it's out of fear that he won't be 'accepted' into the 'club.' Even if they fvck mind with the best of 'em. Heck, they are the best! So how close do you figure you are to your PG goal of unconditional love? If her personal growth goal were unconditional hate, I'd say mission accomplished.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 10:38:59 GMT -5
P.G. encourages people to tell a better story, to improve one's experience. This can work, and work rather well. Nonduality encourages people to drop the story altogether. That is the difference. "You" are not a story. When you drop the story of "you," you are liberated. You can be anything you want to be at any given moment and whatever that is can change. Cognitive dissonance disappears. Maybe in one situation you are villain, in another situation you are hero. And that's okay, it's not inconsistent, because you are not locked in by a story that you are one or the other, or striving to be one or the other. Yup. Yup what? What SQ posted ain't no niz quote, so you're just yuppin' blindly down an alley somewhere.
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Post by andrew on Jul 20, 2013 10:39:03 GMT -5
To say that life is all that is doesn't necessarily mean that there is no essential quality TO life. I resonate with the idea that there is. That's what the conversation last week about the brick was about -- during a woo-woo, one can perceive the life in the inanimate in various ways, and this perception can sort of ... stick ... if you will. If the rational thinking mind is turned on the subject what we see is that there are two movements: 1) A general movement toward disorder. Everything changes and naturally moves from a state of order toward a state of disorder: examples are the initial expansion after the big bang or what happens if you leave a piece of candy out in the sun on a hot day. 2) Within this broader movement there is another movement toward order. Examples are the evolution of the human race and the progression of human culture. Another inorganic example is solar system formation. The thinker will always see this divide, while turning attention away from the thinker reveals what's really going on. There ya go with 'the thinker' thing again. That's the mind split.
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Post by silver on Jul 20, 2013 10:39:19 GMT -5
It's my observation that the vast majority of people have no clue what unconditional love really is, or looks like. Cuz if they did, there'd be nothing to "work" on or fix, they'd love and embrace their dark ugly sides too. Excellent point. Took me a long time to come to terms with this one, too. Once I understood and accepted the fact that I was the baddest mofo on the planet, instead of fighting it all day long, all kinds of stuff started falling in place. Now, that's a record, Art...4 peeps liking your post! (Proves that everybody enjoys a good old-fashioned confession! Enquiring minds wanna know.)
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 10:40:21 GMT -5
This is yet another Andy-pattern ... turn a neutral conceptual discussion into an I/You-based exploration. He does that only when he's challenged. Noticed that.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 20, 2013 10:40:51 GMT -5
I am speaking for a lot of people here Sounds like delusions of grandeur. How about a show of hands?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 10:42:10 GMT -5
Nonduality encourages people to drop the story altogether. Yes, however, what often seems to happen, and what is so aptly being demonstrated here by some, is that one story is dropped and another is picked up and is held to just as tenaciously as the previous one that said, I am a person with such and history and such and such special traits....etc. The story just gets changed to: "there is no person here, no doer, no volition, Oneness is True, Separation is false, All of the above is absolutely TRUE, etc" To really be free of story is to be non-attached to all and any ideas about who or what I am.
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 10:42:43 GMT -5
Yup what? What SQ posted ain't no niz quote, so you're just yuppin' blindly down an alley somewhere. Ok genius, you threw the first punch (... or was that air guitar ?? ... ) so what does what SQ said mean to you? (Art will cowardly refuse to go first, demanding instead that I do)
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Post by Reefs on Jul 20, 2013 10:44:25 GMT -5
"E-diot"? I sense some frustration there Andy. Some hostility. Nothing really intense obviously ... but it's pokin' through ... It's a term of unconditonal love. Must be new-speak.
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 10:44:50 GMT -5
Nonduality encourages people to drop the story altogether. Yes, however, what often seems to happen, and what is so aptly being demonstrated here by some, is that one story is dropped and another is picked up and is held to just as tenaciously as the previous one that said, I am a person with such and history and such and such special traits....etc. The story just gets changed to: "there is no person here, no doer, no volition, Oneness is True, Separation is false, All of the above is absolutely TRUE, etc" To really be free of story is to be non-attached to all and any ideas about who or what I am. Sounds nice figs but it's actually much more simple than all that. When the pattern of reactivity that Niz refers to as a person is gone there's nothing left to attach to. That only sounds like a story when it's filtered through such a pattern.
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Post by silver on Jul 20, 2013 10:45:12 GMT -5
So how close do you figure you are to your PG goal of unconditional love? If her personal growth goal were unconditional hate, I'd say mission accomplished. Is my dark really hate, or something else? You're so clueless, I doubt you'll ever come to know...
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