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Post by james on Jun 22, 2013 12:11:32 GMT -5
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Post by quinn on Jun 22, 2013 12:20:23 GMT -5
Nice, James. A breath of fresh air. Some things that stood out to me related to what's going on in the forum: Finding answers to existential questions ...is equivalent to seeing through the questions and realizing that they are all based on misconceptions. If we let go of our ideas, we watch life unfold without knowing. Most people want to know; not knowing isn't very popular. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "To imagine or not to imagine? That is the question. What ATA does For most people inquiry walks hand in hand with attending the actual (ATA). It's like putting attention on something other than thought and letting a deeper aspect of mind (non-verbal, non-linear, holistic, etc) reveal what is already the case. The answer to whatever question we have is already present, but it often goes unseen. ATA sort of relaxes the intellect and allows the obvious to become obvious. Segal, Roberts and UG I often recommend Segal's "Collision with the Infinite" because it has a peculiar and often beneficial effect upon seekers. Her writing about her loss of selfhood helps many people see-through various deeply-held beliefs and thoughts about selfhood and/or existence. How this happens I don't know, but I can think of many people who have been strongly affected by her book, and all of them were affected in what I would call a positive way. UG has always struck me as an odd character--sort of an ultimate contrarian with a chip on his shoulder about Jiddu and several other teachers. At the same time he's kinda funny, and there is probably some value in considering what he has to say, if only to challenge whatever beliefs someone may have. Bernadette Roberts's first two books interested me, but then she sort of wandered off into some mindset where she felt obligated to reconcile her interior experiences in some quasi-Christian way. I lost interest in her because she never seemed to have reached any kind of psychologically-unified way of being. For whatever reason she seemed to overlook the fact that ordinary everyday life (free from the dominance of thought or special experiences) is what this path is all about. |
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Post by Shawn on Jun 29, 2013 0:36:56 GMT -5
Regarding Bernadette, death has a way of putting a "psychologically unified way of being" in perspective. By that, I mean our psychological being no longer appears as vaunted as we might wish it to be. I'm not knocking that way of being, but I am knocking the idea that "ordinary everyday life is what this path is all about."
Is it about special experiences, then? Not saying that either. There seem to be myriad forms of the answer that settles one's soul. Some may have a hunger that is not satiated by the wonders of everyday awareness. Are they mistaken? Or are they taken by a different dream of longing? Or can they just not stop asking questions...?
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Post by james on Jun 29, 2013 14:25:27 GMT -5
Regarding Bernadette, death has a way of putting a "psychologically unified way of being" in perspective. By that, I mean our psychological being no longer appears as vaunted as we might wish it to be. I'm not knocking that way of being, but I am knocking the idea that "ordinary everyday life is what this path is all about." Is it about special experiences, then? Not saying that either. There seem to be myriad forms of the answer that settles one's soul. Some may have a hunger that is not satiated by the wonders of everyday awareness. Are they mistaken? Or are they taken by a different dream of longing? Or can they just not stop asking questions...? You might want to disagree-with and ask those questions of ZD directly, since they are his words. :-) I'm not sure he looks in this section. |
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Post by Shawn on Jul 24, 2013 14:07:29 GMT -5
Alas, my chance to corner him would be at the upcoming Labor Day TAT workshop , but I won't be there this year. |
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Post by Beingist on Jul 24, 2013 18:30:45 GMT -5
Does ZD ever come out to the Left Coast?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 26, 2013 8:42:05 GMT -5
Regarding Bernadette, death has a way of putting a "psychologically unified way of being" in perspective. By that, I mean our psychological being no longer appears as vaunted as we might wish it to be. I'm not knocking that way of being, but I am knocking the idea that "ordinary everyday life is what this path is all about." Is it about special experiences, then? Not saying that either. There seem to be myriad forms of the answer that settles one's soul. Some may have a hunger that is not satiated by the wonders of everyday awareness. Are they mistaken? Or are they taken by a different dream of longing? Or can they just not stop asking questions...? Hi Shawn: When I say that "ordinary everyday life is what this path is all about," I'm pointing to the end result of the search when every question has been answered (or discovered to have been based upon a misconception). The Zen circle is a symbolic representation of the non-duality path. On the forum we humorously call the path "the journey around Mt. Woo-Woo." The usual seeker starts off intuitively suspecting that the conventional paradigm is incorrect, and is consumed with innumerable existential questions. This is what Zen calls "zero degrees" on the Zen circle, or the first stage of the Zen ox-herding pictures. The seeker realizes that she doesn't know anything of importance, and goes off in search of the truth. The seeker is under the illusion that she is a person located in space and time, and has hundreds or thousands of beliefs ABOUT reality. As the seeker progresses, she may have all kinds of unusual experiences and insights. There is even a part of the circle where magic and miracles are encountered. If the seeker keeps going, her questions are answered (seen through), and there is a shift from head-knowing to body-knowing. The intellect thereby begins to lose its dominance. The body/mind becomes action-oriented, and becomes more and more child-like in its perception of, and interaction with, reality ("what is"). If the seeker keeps going, eventually the illusion at the center of all seeking is seen-through. The seeker realizes that she is not what she thought she was, but is THIS. This ends the search because it is realized that the searcher, as imagined, was a figment of imagination. The seeker psychologically disappears, but what then remains? Only THIS. It is then realized that THIS was the seeker all along, and it was not a person. THIS is the only thing that can wake up to Itself. At this point the question may arise, "What happens now?" The answer: Ordinary everyday life. The seeker has disappeared, but the eyes still see, the feet still walk down the street, and the body still functions intelligently as it always has. Now, however, mind is no longer dominant, and all questions have been seen-through. What else is there to do but whatever the body is already doing? Get dressed, eat breakfast, go to work, etc. The search has ended, but life goes on, and it is not special in any way. Because the mind no longer reflects in the same way as before, and because all questions have been seen through, life becomes pretty simple and straightforwared. The body/mind does what it has to do, and then it does the next thing that has to be done. There is no internal imaginary person who thinks she is controlling anything. The universe simply unfolds in accordance to what we might call "God's Will." Can this state of mind be accurately described? No. Problems still appear, frustrations still occur, the body still gets sick, and so forth, but none of this happens to a someone, a person, and the mind does not reflect upon what's happening in the same way as before. It is as if the body/mind has been released from an internal reflexive psychological mechanism, and then simply goes with the flow. People who write about this 360 degree point on the Zen circle may use words like "contentment," "equanimity," peacefulness," "acceptance," etc, but such words paint a highly deceptive picture. Sure, for a seeker, an end of seeking is a momentary relief, but what then? There may be some temporary contentment and peace, but afterwards, that, too, gets left behind because the mind stops checking on itself. As Sengstan stated: "...nothing clings to us and we hold to nothing. All is empty, clear, self-illuminating, With no exertion of the mind's power. Here thought, feeling, knowledge, and imagination are of no value. In this world of Suchness there is neither self nor other-than-self." ".....One thing, all things: move amoung and intermingle without distinction. To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection." Hey, I had looked forward to meeting you in person at TAT after all these years of reading your poems and articles, but maybe we'll meet at a future TAT workshop, God willing. Ha ha. Take care. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 26, 2013 9:06:39 GMT -5
Does ZD ever come out to the Left Coast? Hi B: Jackson Hole, Wyoming is as far west as I'll be traveling this year unless God changes the plan. Ha ha. If you come east, PM me, and maybe we can share a few bottles of beer or a bottle of wine somewhere. One of these days it'd be fun for all of the long-time posters on this forum to meet somewhere and get to know each other in person. Some time ago I bought some stock in an obscure little undervalued Taiwanese company that a guy recommended, and its beginning to look like it may be a long-term big winner--what we call a ten-banger. About fifteen long-term investors have recently started talking about meeting in Vegas to celebrate if the stock climbs as high as we suspect it will. It's funny, but after seven years of reading the posts of the long-term investors, it feels like I know them, so it would be fun to put faces with names and share a celebratory glass a champaigne if the stock turns out to be a big winner. Same same here. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 14:39:34 GMT -5
One of these days it'd be fun for all of the long-time posters on this forum to meet somewhere and get to know each other in person. Yeah yeah. Seeing Question laugh would feel pretty joyous. |
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Post by Beingist on Jul 27, 2013 17:49:44 GMT -5
Does ZD ever come out to the Left Coast? Hi B: Jackson Hole, Wyoming is as far west as I'll be traveling this year unless God changes the plan. Ha ha. If you come east, PM me, and maybe we can share a few bottles of beer or a bottle of wine somewhere. One of these days it'd be fun for all of the long-time posters on this forum to meet somewhere and get to know each other in person. Some time ago I bought some stock in an obscure little undervalued Taiwanese company that a guy recommended, and its beginning to look like it may be a long-term big winner--what we call a ten-banger. About fifteen long-term investors have recently started talking about meeting in Vegas to celebrate if the stock climbs as high as we suspect it will. It's funny, but after seven years of reading the posts of the long-term investors, it feels like I know them, so it would be fun to put faces with names and share a celebratory glass a champaigne if the stock turns out to be a big winner. Same same here. Sounds good, ZD. I have a long-time friend who lives in Aiken, SC, and I've had a hankering for some time to take a cross-country road trip to see the guy, and see those parts of the country I've never seen before. I'll let you know if that ever materializes. Would love to have a beer with ya. |
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lou
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Post by lou on Jul 27, 2013 19:50:03 GMT -5
I would love to meet ZD in person and all the TAT teachers who have been part of my life via video and print over the past four years. Perhaps a TAT Down Under could be arranged?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 28, 2013 8:22:44 GMT -5
I would love to meet ZD in person and all the TAT teachers who have been part of my life via video and print over the past four years. Perhaps a TAT Down Under could be arranged? Hi Lou: That would be a blast! Australia and New Zealand is one area of the world I've never visited, but they look like wonderful places to see. At the 1970 World's Fair in Osaka, Japan I visited exhibit pavillions that both Australia and New Zealand hosted, and each country and its special features made a lasting impression. Who knows? One of these days this body/mind might go wandering down under for a while. If we could just add Antarctica to the trip....... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2013 8:31:29 GMT -5
I would love to meet ZD in person and all the TAT teachers who have been part of my life via video and print over the past four years. Perhaps a TAT Down Under could be arranged? Hi Lou: That would be a blast! Australia and New Zealand is one area of the world I've never visited, but they look like wonderful places to see. At the 1970 World's Fair in Osaka, Japan I visited exhibit pavillions that both Australia and New Zealand hosted, and each country and its special features made a lasting impression. Who knows? One of these days this body/mind might go wandering down under for a while. If we could just add Antarctica to the trip....... welcome to Fremantle |
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 28, 2013 12:16:17 GMT -5
James, thanks for this blog.
ZD, you are a wonderful writer. I have been enjoying reading through your posts.
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park
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Post by park on Jan 21, 2024 6:52:29 GMT -5
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