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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 9:49:16 GMT -5
Well I just had a butterfly moment and lost a whole post! In short, the core yearning is something like aiding opening, mine and others. Opening is a group effort. Little strokes and complements are an example of that. The doubter in me wonders if there is some background need for internal validation about being loving or something. So I recently had someone seriously push on me. I posted on facebook saying she beat me with the zen stick until I took it away from her and said "stop that". In being codependent and people pleasing, I had lost my own voice for fear of being abandoned or rejected. She pushed on me until I was forced to speak and set my boundaries. After that my heart and throat chakra became ublocked and I felt a giddiness come over me. As I let it fill me, I started to dance to some music at the coffee shop I go to. The room brightened and people were laughing at/with me for being silly. My giddiness was infectious. It didn't take any ego stroking or complimenting to open other people up. Where is your own joy? Why are you not so happy that it infects the people around you? Yes strokes/compliments are just an example of that. I'm assuming they are genuine. The feedback I get is that people are thankful for the calmness they feel when they are around me. That's sumthin, not exactly life of the party, but sumthin. |
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Post by topology on Apr 11, 2013 9:51:00 GMT -5
So I recently had someone seriously push on me. I posted on facebook saying she beat me with the zen stick until I took it away from her and said "stop that". In being codependent and people pleasing, I had lost my own voice for fear of being abandoned or rejected. She pushed on me until I was forced to speak and set my boundaries. After that my heart and throat chakra became ublocked and I felt a giddiness come over me. As I let it fill me, I started to dance to some music at the coffee shop I go to. The room brightened and people were laughing at/with me for being silly. My giddiness was infectious. It didn't take any ego stroking or complimenting to open other people up. Where is your own joy? Why are you not so happy that it infects the people around you? Yes strokes/compliments are just an example of that. I'm assuming they are genuine. The feedback I get is that people are thankful for the calmness they feel when they are around me. That's sumthin, not exactly life of the party, but sumthin. Why assume they are genuine? Do you mean them? Do you genuinely feel that way about what you are saying to them? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 9:53:09 GMT -5
Yes strokes/compliments are just an example of that. I'm assuming they are genuine. The feedback I get is that people are thankful for the calmness they feel when they are around me. That's sumthin, not exactly life of the party, but sumthin. Why assume they are genuine? Do you mean them? Do you genuinely feel that way about what you are saying to them? Yes the compliments/strokes are genuine, no different than doing a spontaneous jig in a café. |
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Post by topology on Apr 11, 2013 9:55:07 GMT -5
Why assume they are genuine? Do you mean them? Do you genuinely feel that way about what you are saying to them? Yes the compliments/strokes are genuine, no different than doing a spontaneous jig in a café. Sounds like its less about stroking the other ego and more about simply expressing how you genuinely feel. How do you feel? |
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Post by enigma on Apr 11, 2013 11:44:55 GMT -5
www.aurobindo.ru/workings/satprem/adventure_of_consciousness_e.htmi just found the whole darn book online... fully realised is a state very few if any human has ever reached yet. there is not really such a state, as there is no such thing as ´´done´´ (jed McKenna term.) but in this context (i should have been more careful in my formulation but the library guard just walked in with a zen - stick to kick me out--well he has a right to lunch as well) i would say triple liberation, as explained in the teachers section, the chapter i copied from my copy of the book, (before i found the link above.pfff :-) lets say this. S.A. said that immortality for himself would be easy to achieve, but he wasnt satisfied with that,(read the section i mentioned to understand why, i see no point in repeating it here for you) he wanted to change the whole set of natural laws, and he says he did so.( the end of ww2 and liberation of india just two tiny surface things,happened to be on his 73rd and 75th birthday)which no doubt must have made him smile. the rest is a matter of unfolding in time. The thief in the night. He came, did the job and left, without any fanfare.No need for crosses and such. he wrote his six major works SIMULTANUOUSLY (yes i am rubbing it in here top) 4 of which widely acclaimed masterpieces.Ever tried to write just one book? go to savitri, page 599, he dictated that section of 1500 lines from the top of his head, in the last 3 months of his life, they did not change one komma or point. that is a Mind we all have, he says...just go and purify yourself, free yourself from the past, get rid of ego. spirit manifesting through matter by way of evolution.Spirit being consciousness.Man can now consciously take part in this adventure.Take it or leave it. cheers ! I think you mistake my intent. Think of me as a dog who has come up to you to vigorously sniff your butt to get to know you better. Isn't vigorous butt sniffing in violation of forum guidelines?  |
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Post by Portto on Apr 11, 2013 16:50:30 GMT -5
My point is that there is only one "deck of cards" where both "born with" and "something learned" equally belong. I'm thinking radical acceptance.  |
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Post by silence on Apr 11, 2013 19:04:19 GMT -5
When you say 'the way out' is through fearlessness, I take it to mean that you're saying just turn towards the fear, recognize it, and feel it. Don't follow the automatic story that is overlaid on it. Tune in to the experience happening right then. One could call it fearlessness, to directly face fears, but actually it could be an experience full of fear, and thus fearful. So maybe the way out is through fearfulness? Right. Experientially, the way out is through fearfulness. Meaning that one transcends fear by going THROUGH it rather than around it. Ultimately the willingness to go through it comes from the recognition on some level that you don't require a way out at all. Which is to say that even as the organism is recoiling in an avoidance pattern, what you most fundamentally are is totally present, totally boundless and totally turned towards everything that is unfolding ALWAYS. So what we're really talking about is letting go. Always about letting go. The more we let go, the more will come to the surface like buoy's trapped underwater suddenly let loose. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 4:40:38 GMT -5
I think you mistake my intent. Think of me as a dog who has come up to you to vigorously sniff your butt to get to know you better. Isn't vigorous butt sniffing in violation of forum guidelines? i didnt know i have a vigorous butt..its kinda hard to look at from here... is dog the reverse of god? then i must be careful with you |
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Post by topology on Apr 12, 2013 7:56:56 GMT -5
Isn't vigorous butt sniffing in violation of forum guidelines? i didnt know i have a vigorous butt..its kinda hard to look at from here... is dog the reverse of god? then i must be careful with you Ha ha!  The only thing I want is for you to be your truth. There's no need to point to books or gurus. Be the truth that already lives in you, the same truth that recognized truth in those books and gurus. You be it. And as you demonstrate and relate from that truth, so shall others be informed. By your action. By your demonstration. |
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Post by silence on Apr 12, 2013 15:31:57 GMT -5
I'm basically saying that there's just a pattern of resistance playing out in mind that we call "me". Fear is a natural mechanism meant to keep the organism alive. It's meant to come on strong and produce instantaneous results absent the delay of thought and then vanish. This distinct experience of a separate "me" seems to be the result of thought getting all tangled up with that hardwired natural mechanism of fear. It becomes a baseline level of anxiety that one may not even notice but still drives their behavior or it may be experienced as an overt psychological fear that's present during all waking moments. It can be felt bodily as a muscular tension, often in the abdomen. This fearful psychological movement called ego has both equally allowed human beings to prosper as it has thrown them into a state of serious mental illness and spiritual crisis. A sense of self is natural, fine and necessary. Meaning, there IS a body that isn't confused about which mouth the water goes in when it's thirsty. This sort of sense is present before any thought structure has taken hold and is obviously present in all animals. A sense of self does not drive an existential search for Truth and give birth to the rise of "spirituality". That is the domain and the direct result of psychological fear producing a consistent and coherent experience that is both intolerable and felt to be necessary. That's the boat that human beings are in. The unfortunate position that most people are in is that they trust their intellectual abilities beyond all else and even to the exclusion of anything else. This leaves them in a position where thought is trying dismantle thought. Fear is trying to eradicate fear. First if we can understand what ego actually is, there can be compassion rather than struggle. It is not mind as a whole nor is it a 'something' we can root out and forcefully eliminate. It's merely the psychological result of an organism taking its ingrained sense of survival into the realm of complex thinking. "The way out" so to speak must be through fearlessness. Such fearlessness can be the result of a sudden realization but more commonly it must be the result of a willingness to be vulnerable despite the presence of fear in all areas of one's life. To walk directly into the fear rather than play with it in a meditation session. To move on from academically questioning beliefs to actually putting such suspect beliefs to the test in real life. No different than someone afraid of heights jumping out of a plane. It's my impression that this is where people dig their heels in and spend a lot of time trying to induce 'mind tricks' to sort of circumvent the messy stuff in their lives. Ultimately though, that's just a more covert movement of fear. This is where that line between spirituality and life must fully dissolve. Message received this time for sure. That was about as clear as it gets. I've been noticing that line wavering and breaking up for awhile now and it's a good thing. This kind of ties in to the questioning I was doing back in January about aspirations. What do I value most? What finally came out of that that felt true is, I value autonomy. Walking in my own shoes. And there is no autonomy when the spiritual life is over here and the 'regular' life is over there. When I first read what you wrote, I got stopped at "The way out so to speak must be through fearlessness." Right away, I thought - must be? Then....yes. That is true. To completely and thoroughly understand 'no-self' is useless if it isn't lived. As I begin to walk in my own shoes, with all the pretty and all the ugly, the fear that comes up is the perfume of that no-self self. Haha. Keep walking. Yeah, if we can spend part of our lives being at peace and seeing with crystal clarity but not the rest, we have achieved a way to seek refuge within ourselves. While this refuge is tremendously valuable and a true asset to our sanity, it can just as easily become a 'place' where we hide out and draw arbitrary lines in the sand to refer to spirituality. To discover that what you most fundamentall are is not of this world is a refocusing of attention away from the apparent mundane life unfolding before you. It's a process of introspection that necessitates stopping the insanity long enough to look and see what's below all assumptions. This introspection is itself just another movement though. Destined to come and eventually go. In the absence of no longer identifying ourselves with fearful movements of mind as well as the absence of a natural introspective focus, all that is left is life fearlessly looking to live itself. This dissolution of any and all boundaries between spirituality and life at large is where there seems to be an endless quality of depth to experience itself where what is known to be true; which is to say, where what we actually are is itself embodied in the actions and experience itself rather than an understanding or something we must access while we are practicing 'spirituality'. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 9:15:25 GMT -5
i didnt know i have a vigorous butt..its kinda hard to look at from here... is dog the reverse of god? then i must be careful with you Ha ha! The only thing I want is for you to be your truth. There's no need to point to books or gurus. Be the truth that already lives in you, the same truth that recognized truth in those books and gurus. You be it. And as you demonstrate and relate from that truth, so shall others be informed. By your action. By your demonstration. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 9:41:22 GMT -5
no top
you want messages from the ego
it is exactly reverse from how i work
i focus on the light
you guys here are all tangled up in trying tu understand something with the thinking mind
as soon as a read any of that stuff i get locked up in my head, same place you are
if you arent able to c o n v e y the experience
(and as i said, i cannot , i am not a teacher)
it is just one ego mind talking to another.
i can do that anywhere.Takes me nowhere.Am fed up with thaT.
by focussing on a true Teacher, i find silence and TRUTH...
but i have come to the conclusion that there arent any real teachers here, or somebody more advanced than me.
Maybe a peer or two.There is someone here but not even a member, i can sense a larger consciousness.
But he / she helps me without words.
i LIVE the sermon on the mount, every second of the day, THE LILIES IN THE FIELD
until i get here tangled up in pointless discussions.
so i am out of here.
i was curious to find perhaps someone on my level.
but if i get headbutts every time i mention a vastly superior mind, (you guys havent got the third eye, that´s
obvious, so i cant blame you)
well as i said
i dont need a forum like this for that.
i can get that evrywhere.
you probably now think i am arrogant.
tough luck
cant help that.
it was an intereasting learning experience.
so this is my ´´demonstration´´:
goodbeye
blees you all
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Post by Beingist on Apr 13, 2013 9:55:58 GMT -5
no top you want messages from the ego it is exactly reverse from how i work i focus on the light you guys here are all tangled up in trying tu understand something with the thinking mind as soon as a read any of that stuff i get locked up in my head, same place you are if you arent able to c o n v e y the experience (and as i said, i cannot , i am not a teacher) it is just one ego mind talking to another. i can do that anywhere.Takes me nowhere.Am fed up with thaT. by focussing on a true Teacher, i find silence and TRUTH... but i have come to the conclusion that there arent any real teachers here, or somebody more advanced than me. Maybe a peer or two.There is someone here but not even a member, i can sense a larger consciousness. But he / she helps me without words. i LIVE the sermon on the mount, every second of the day, THE LILIES IN THE FIELD until i get here tangled up in pointless discussions. so i am out of here. i was curious to find perhaps someone on my level. but if i get headbutts every time i mention a vastly superior mind, (you guys havent got the third eye, that´s obvious, so i cant blame you) well as i said i dont need a forum like this for that. i can get that evrywhere. you probably now think i am arrogant. tough luck cant help that. it was an intereasting learning experience. so this is my ´´demonstration´´: goodbeye blees you all I can really rez with this, though I'm not going anywhere. There's always something to unlearn, if only the arrogance of thinking that you're better, because you don't tend to get into the hardcore mental discussions and examinations that go on here. |
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Post by topology on Apr 13, 2013 10:37:50 GMT -5
no top you want messages from the ego it is exactly reverse from how i work i focus on the light you guys here are all tangled up in trying tu understand something with the thinking mind as soon as a read any of that stuff i get locked up in my head, same place you are if you arent able to c o n v e y the experience (and as i said, i cannot , i am not a teacher) it is just one ego mind talking to another. i can do that anywhere.Takes me nowhere.Am fed up with thaT. by focussing on a true Teacher, i find silence and TRUTH... but i have come to the conclusion that there arent any real teachers here, or somebody more advanced than me. Maybe a peer or two.There is someone here but not even a member, i can sense a larger consciousness. But he / she helps me without words. i LIVE the sermon on the mount, every second of the day, THE LILIES IN THE FIELD until i get here tangled up in pointless discussions. so i am out of here. i was curious to find perhaps someone on my level. but if i get headbutts every time i mention a vastly superior mind, (you guys havent got the third eye, that´s obvious, so i cant blame you) well as i said i dont need a forum like this for that. i can get that evrywhere. you probably now think i am arrogant. tough luck cant help that. it was an intereasting learning experience. so this is my ´´demonstration´´: goodbeye blees you all You said arrogance. I didn't. Which means your internal ear gave you feedback on your disposition. Are you listening? |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 13, 2013 10:52:06 GMT -5
no top you want messages from the ego it is exactly reverse from how i work i focus on the light you guys here are all tangled up in trying tu understand something with the thinking mind as soon as a read any of that stuff i get locked up in my head, same place you are if you arent able to c o n v e y the experience (and as i said, i cannot , i am not a teacher) it is just one ego mind talking to another. i can do that anywhere.Takes me nowhere.Am fed up with thaT. by focussing on a true Teacher, i find silence and TRUTH... but i have come to the conclusion that there arent any real teachers here, or somebody more advanced than me. Maybe a peer or two.There is someone here but not even a member, i can sense a larger consciousness. But he / she helps me without words. i LIVE the sermon on the mount, every second of the day, THE LILIES IN THE FIELD until i get here tangled up in pointless discussions. so i am out of here. i was curious to find perhaps someone on my level. but if i get headbutts every time i mention a vastly superior mind, (you guys havent got the third eye, that´s obvious, so i cant blame you) well as i said i dont need a forum like this for that. i can get that evrywhere. you probably now think i am arrogant.tough luck cant help that. it was an intereasting learning experience. so this is my ´´demonstration´´: goodbeye blees you all You said arrogance. I didn't. Which means your internal ear gave you feedback on your disposition. Are you listening? Dear Dude/Dudette, Are you referring to "you probably now think i am arrogant"? Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize |
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