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Mar 1, 2011 12:48:25 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2011 12:48:25 GMT -5
e. Yes, I hope there is a realization of some sort and I certainly don't want to stay confused or clueless ...LOL but how one gets there is personal. I just question or wonder wether or not it can be penned down intellectually. My hunch is that it can't really, and this hunch is just based purely on my experience with mindful meditation — following the breath and noticing thoughts and their emotions come and go. But, we do choose, or take instruction all along the way, based on our intuition, or sense of what is right for us, and we try things out and if we find they're not fruitful, then we move on to something else — right? Sure. There's no secret method and no words that are ultimately True. What we're dealing with is various distracting illusions, and so what a particular individual needs at any given time is a good look see at whatever illusion is currently the most distracting, and this happens automagically because this is naturally where the attention goes and this attention is 'creative'. It seems clear to me that if anything is looked into deeply enough it will lead to Truth because the fundamental nature of what is being looked at is illusion, and when this is seen through, there is a domino effect because all illusions are mutually reinforcing. So I say explore your interest (which you can't avoid doing) with as much intensity as you can muster. Discover the actual nature of it at it's core. Explore mind deeply, or study nature intently, or find out what is at the core of science, or look into the nature of your own heart. It will all lead to Truth because there is no other destination. The 'spiritual path' is riddled with traps unconsciously designed to avoid looking deeply enough into anything to collapse the illusion. A path that does nothing but notice traps (the biggest of which may be the idea that there is a path) can lead to Truth.
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Mar 1, 2011 12:59:41 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2011 12:59:41 GMT -5
e. However, I do understand your point that the ultimate "Not Knowing" must be a deep realization, or a knowing of some sort, and not just accepted superficially. It is a paradox isn't it? I suppose my point is that we must have some kind of trust in that the pointers are actually pointing to the point. :-) Yes, a certain amount of trust (or faith or willingness) seems to be very helpful in order to escape one's own self justification. I'm not so big on paradoxes, which are just mind trying to grasp a new idea without letting go of the old one. 'Knowing nothing' is the realization that there is ultimately nothing to know; that knowledge itself is self defining, that words point only to other words and ideas refer only to other ideas. They're useful in their own context, but ultimately irrelevant.
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Mar 1, 2011 13:24:22 GMT -5
Post by therealfake on Mar 1, 2011 13:24:22 GMT -5
If I stop seeking, trying, thinking, imagining and becoming...
I find nothing but 'awareness', a 'presence'.
I am aware, of my body, my surroundings, people, things, sounds, thoughts, feelings and even a sense of I....
This simple truth, that I must be here as the awareness, before anything can be known, is too simple for my mind to understand.
I think I'll just stay here for a moment and contemplate that...
Just 'be' the awareness and see what happens...
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Mar 1, 2011 18:35:14 GMT -5
Post by mamza on Mar 1, 2011 18:35:14 GMT -5
Hosnap, you mean that if I were to ask a question, it's flawed because it's just an idea trying to describe another idea? None of those ideas are about anything that can be truly known, because the only thing that exists is unknowable (no separation to create distinction)! Aha! And so really I can just do whatever I want as long as I'm focusing on the actual. In this way, I live in not-knowing. Amirite? And living in not-knowing is awesome not because there's no endless, tiring descriptions of descriptions referring to nothing running around to cause any grief, but because there's nobody actually chasing the useless descriptions of descriptions.
For whatever odd reason, I identify with the descriptions that mind generates rather than what the descriptions point to. How silly.
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Mar 1, 2011 20:32:51 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2011 20:32:51 GMT -5
Hosnap, you mean that if I were to ask a question, it's flawed because it's just an idea trying to describe another idea? None of those ideas are about anything that can be truly known, because the only thing that exists is unknowable (no separation to create distinction)! Aha! And so really I can just do whatever I want as long as I'm focusing on the actual. In this way, I live in not-knowing. Amirite? And living in not-knowing is awesome not because there's no endless, tiring descriptions of descriptions referring to nothing running around to cause any grief, but because there's nobody actually chasing the useless descriptions of descriptions. For whatever odd reason, I identify with the descriptions that mind generates rather than what the descriptions point to. How silly. URrite. Hehe.
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Mar 1, 2011 21:02:02 GMT -5
Post by mamza on Mar 1, 2011 21:02:02 GMT -5
Well golly gee, thinking back on it that seems really simple.
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Mar 1, 2011 21:06:37 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2011 21:06:37 GMT -5
It's maddeningly simple, and mind will have no part of it cause there's no 'juice' in it for mind.
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Mar 1, 2011 23:09:10 GMT -5
Post by mamza on Mar 1, 2011 23:09:10 GMT -5
Yeah! The mind is trying so hard to get me to find something, to get something... something it doesn't have yet but it wants very, very badly. I feel like I haven't 'got it', that I don't understand and I need to find validation of all this or to figure out what it's for. It feels like crap, really. I want to go off looking for whatever it is I think I don't have, but it's stupid to bother.
I think what it wants is some sort of 'how can I, being the cause, cause 50 bucks to appear in my hand?' LOL. Maybe get a job...........
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Mar 1, 2011 23:15:54 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2011 23:15:54 GMT -5
Welp, the funny thing about You being the cause is that it doesn't imply You are in control. Hehe.
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Mar 1, 2011 23:48:50 GMT -5
Post by mamza on Mar 1, 2011 23:48:50 GMT -5
Hah! Good point!
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