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Post by therealfake on Jan 12, 2011 17:48:28 GMT -5
So what verifies energy and matter? Isn't it the mind? And what is watching the mind? Is the mind just a hapless computer with nothing behind it? Is that the present experience? This inquiry is ONLY in your subjective experience - it is not "out there" in the empirical world. The empirical world has it's own inquiry method called science. These are in two different directions - outward: the empirical world, and inward: your subjective present experience. I'm not sure what you mean. You say the mind verifies energy and matter and then you say there is the empirical world, which implies it doesn't require a mind to verify it's existence. In fact science and religion are coming together through the observable realm of quantum mechanics and advaita philosophy. Science theorizes a field of pure potentiality and pure intelligence. Advaita calls it God or the unknowable. The oneness advaita speaks about is the same fundamental energetic reality that makes up you, me, plants, animals, quasars, suns, black holes and everything in the known universe. Enigma has said that you are not what you are looking at. In a sense that's true. But at the fundamental energetic level, you are indeed looking at yourself. If I believe that the world I see is an illusion of the mind, standing on the railroad tracks waiting for the train to hit me, shouldn't have any affect at all. lol I apologize for hijacking the previous thread... ...thus this new one
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Post by karen on Jan 12, 2011 18:42:43 GMT -5
Hi!
"standing on the railroad tracks waiting for the train to hit me, shouldn't have any affect at all"
Is this your present subjective experience? Or is that an imagined scenario?
The empirical world is not the real world. It is the world of the mind's understanding. Is there a real world? I don't know. I haven't direct evidence for such a world as I only see what my senses report.
As far as science and non-duality coming together - yes I know it's all the rage. We will reach a new level of understanding right? Isn't that more of the same. Science and reason seems to push back the frontiers of understanding continuously - enough to tell you it ain't there.
It is in. Towards that which is looking at these words - it feels like a tornado of being. Look there. Keep attention there as much as possible whenever possible.
And just in case this comes up: as to the idea that living only in your subjective experience is somehow dangerous - you are never not living only in your present subjective experience. It is only in your mind that you will find an empirical world. Which is safer to reside? A subjective world, or a world within a subjective world?
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 12, 2011 18:51:30 GMT -5
Not sure what this thread is here?
Anyhow continue maybe I will figure it out.
Michael
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Post by therealfake on Jan 12, 2011 19:50:06 GMT -5
Not sure what this thread is here? Anyhow continue maybe I will figure it out. Michael Here is an entry point...
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 12, 2011 20:07:41 GMT -5
Thanks but not mine thing at all. Just the mind playing with the mind in min"d" opinion
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 12, 2011 21:05:20 GMT -5
It was a good video. I would disagree with him that effort is a problem. It's just not sufficient.
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Post by question on Jan 13, 2011 0:18:12 GMT -5
Boy is he a great salesman. How he can in all seriousness claim all those things without blushing is beyond me. Obviously he says some things that are ok, mostly when he is so vague that it's difficult to be wrong. But it all falls apart when he goes into detail on the science+spirituality topic. Currently there are many "unified field theories". To my knowledge none are universally accepted or empirically verified. Not one of them comes even close to integrating consciousness.
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 13, 2011 9:51:25 GMT -5
Thanks but not mine thing at all. Just the mind playing with the mind in min"d" opinion Michael Yes Michael isn't into proof. He's into fantasy and as such I award him with this picture of a fantastic Unicorn You Michael truly are a fantastic Unicorn. Now please step aside and let those with an average IQ count and above discuss reality
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Post by karen on Jan 13, 2011 11:43:00 GMT -5
Boy is he a great salesman. How he can in all seriousness claim all those things without blushing is beyond me. Obviously he says some things that are ok, mostly when he is so vague that it's difficult to be wrong. But it all falls apart when he goes into detail on the science+spirituality topic. I agree about that last part. Too much razzle-dazzle in the video. But you can be that confident if you stay with what you can know 100% for sure: our subjective direct experience (where everything seems to happen). Leave (or I should say apply someday hopefully) science where it belongs - running the show here in the "outer" world. We can apply science to determine how to best help everyone on the planet not these stupid duels between warring factions who each just claims rightness - no evidence needed.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 13, 2011 12:14:40 GMT -5
Boy is he a great salesman. How he can in all seriousness claim all those things without blushing is beyond me. Obviously he says some things that are ok, mostly when he is so vague that it's difficult to be wrong. But it all falls apart when he goes into detail on the science+spirituality topic. Currently there are many "unified field theories". To my knowledge none are universally accepted or empirically verified. Not one of them comes even close to integrating consciousness. Everything you say is true, Dr Hagelin is in fact on the board of directors for the Transcendental Meditation Maharashi University, no conflict of interest there...lol And yes, there is little to no consensus in the scientific community for his supposition. Einstein stated that, he wanted to know the mind of God. And so it's interesting that through the exploration of quantum physics, scientists are turning there attention to the intangible subject of consciousness. Science couldn't touch this subject before, because of the way classical observation functions. Quantum physics presents an area of exploration where new models of inquiry need to be developed to understand this newest level of reality. If they are able to do this, it may very well be possible to prove God has a reality, as opposed to the millions who simply rely on belief or faith. TRF
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Post by question on Jan 13, 2011 12:24:56 GMT -5
@karen: I agree. Lately it's starting to dawn on me that the very question of science+spirituality is present because the real question ís unclear. The kind of spirituality that science can relate to is stuff like out of body experiences etc. But science can't say much about the question of "what is?", probably because prior to being able to honestly express the question one must see that science isn't related to it, except maybe by informing a basic strategy for finding out what relates to the question and what doesn't (basic logic).
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Post by karen on Jan 13, 2011 20:25:33 GMT -5
Excellent! Yes I think I agree with that Question. That's what some people mean I think by saying prior to or primordial in non-dual talks. It sounds fancy to the ear, so I use to think it meant like some kind of ether or something "out there" - not this right *here* where I place my attention now.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 14, 2011 13:04:04 GMT -5
Ok spam alert now on.
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 14, 2011 13:09:46 GMT -5
uhm... could you not post my link everywhere? Thanks....
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Post by popee on Jan 20, 2011 10:52:35 GMT -5
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