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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 0:00:40 GMT -5
...when I say reality, I mean the world that I see.
For instance, beliefs are really thoughts with a lot more energy and identity wrapped up in them.
So, if I believe that I'm a body, I must then have to believe in death, sickness, guilt, separateness and sin. I must also have to have a fear of God, or Love, or IT, or awareness, or whatever I believe anything other than the body to be. This makes up the first pair of glasses I wear to view the world.
Now, if I believe that I'm not the body, but awareness, or God, or It or Love. I must also have to not know fear, be guiltless, not know sin, feel incredible love, believe in oneness and have eternal life. This then would be the other pair of glasses I wear.
So, does the world, or my reality, change, depending on my view?
Furthermore, what does that say about my reality in general?
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Post by karen on Jan 5, 2011 0:32:24 GMT -5
In my experience, at any rate, believing I'm not the body doesn't help (sorry Niz  ), and believing I'm god or whatever also isn't helpful. I'd say my interpretation of the world changes upon changing the lens of belief. |
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Post by question on Jan 5, 2011 10:13:01 GMT -5
1) So, if I believe that I'm a body, I must then have to believe in death, sickness, guilt, separateness and sin. I must also have to have a fear of God, or Love, or IT, or awareness, or whatever I believe anything other than the body to be. This makes up the first pair of glasses I wear to view the world. 2) Now, if I believe that I'm not the body, but awareness, or God, or It or Love. I must also have to not know fear, be guiltless, not know sin, feel incredible love, believe in oneness and have eternal life. This then would be the other pair of glasses I wear. 1) From the belief that I'm a body follows a belief that I (the body) am seperate. All the other beliefs don't follow from that. 2) From the belief that I'm God doesn't follow that I'm fearless, guiltless, sinless, loving. Karen got it right imo. |
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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 10:25:25 GMT -5
1) So, if I believe that I'm a body, I must then have to believe in death, sickness, guilt, separateness and sin. I must also have to have a fear of God, or Love, or IT, or awareness, or whatever I believe anything other than the body to be. This makes up the first pair of glasses I wear to view the world. 2) Now, if I believe that I'm not the body, but awareness, or God, or It or Love. I must also have to not know fear, be guiltless, not know sin, feel incredible love, believe in oneness and have eternal life. This then would be the other pair of glasses I wear. 1) From the belief that I'm a body follows a belief that I (the body) am seperate. All the other beliefs don't follow from that. 2) From the belief that I'm God doesn't follow that I'm fearless, guiltless, sinless, loving. Karen got it right imo. Oh, but the other beliefs do follow the belief that I am a body, they are part and parcel. You've just never stopped to examine them. For instance, who believes that they are going to live longer than 100 years, who believes they will never get sick, grow old and die, who has never felt guilty or that they have sinned... Living on false hope that those things aren't going to happen, is exactly that, if you think you are a body  |
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Post by question on Jan 5, 2011 11:01:23 GMT -5
Belief in death and sickness (in most cases!) comes with believing to be a body, agreed. The other beliefs: sin, guilt, fear of God/Awareness/Love don't.
I've read 1-2 weeks ago about a woman with a brain disorder who couldn't feel any fear whatsoever. I dare to suspect that same can happen to most other beliefs.
A note about believing to be God. It's not possible to believe to be what God actually IS. One can only believe in some arbitrary image of God. Consequently one can attach any crazy belief to that misguided belief. Stripping the belief of any content (i.e. "God is ineffable") still won't help, one will be simply left with a distilled version of an oxymoron. Seems to me that "God" is equivalent to a squared cirlce, except that the belief in God comes with feelings of reverence etc. And it's really these feelings that we're after, not the belief, because nobody who beliefs in God really understands what it is that he is believing in, just like nobody understands what he believes in when he believes in a squared circle. The emphasis here is always on belief, some people may know, but that is an entirely different ballgame.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 11:56:51 GMT -5
Of course fear of God is part of believing in being a body, not the concept of God, but what we really are. It's why so many people in this forum have stated that they get glimpses of the eternal and that they want no part of it. Why?
Because of fear and the annihilation of the belief that they are a body.
If you examine the nature of guilt and sin, you will find they are there only to reinforce the belief of being a body, otherwise they wouldn't be necessary.
I use the term belief in God, using the Christian vernacular, it's true what you say about people's belief in God.
Belief in that which we are, is just a relative truth to that which we really are, which is unknowable.
That belief is only a stepping stone, to take someone up to the only thing that is real and then it is let go...
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Post by karen on Jan 5, 2011 12:22:27 GMT -5
Of course fear of God is part of believing in being a body, not the concept of God, but what we really are. I, myself, don't understand this. It's why so many people in this forum have stated that they get glimpses of the eternal and that they want no part of it. Why? Can you point out a few links where people here want no part of this you're talking about? It doesn't sound familiar, and I read this place all the time. Belief in that which we are, is just a relative truth to that which we really are, which is unknowable. That belief is only a stepping stone, to take someone up to the only thing that is real and then it is let go... In my book, relative truths negate rather than prop up beliefs. "Belief in that which we are" no matter how high and noble it is illusion. <-- see that - relative truth that negates this belief in "that which we are" |
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Post by question on Jan 5, 2011 12:30:56 GMT -5
But this is not a fear of God or anything else except the absence/annihilation of self/body.
The vast majority of world's population believe in God, where does this belief get them? I'd say it's not the belief that is the stepping stone but the considering of the concept of God as a premise and then from this premise investigating one's own worldview. For example if I believe that 1+1=3 I never ever allow the possibility that 1+1 might actually be 2, I will never solve the equation correctly. If I start from the premise that 1+1=2, then there is a chance. If I just swallow 1+1=2 as a belief then I won't understand the equation, misapply it and come to false conclusions such as 1+2=2.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 14:17:31 GMT -5
But this is not a fear of God or anything else except the absence/annihilation of self/body. The vast majority of world's population believe in God, where does this belief get them? I'd say it's not the belief that is the stepping stone but the considering of the concept of God as a premise and then from this premise investigating one's own worldview. For example if I believe that 1+1=3 I never ever allow the possibility that 1+1 might actually be 2, I will never solve the equation correctly. If I start from the premise that 1+1=2, then there is a chance. If I just swallow 1+1=2 as a belief then I won't understand the equation, misapply it and come to false conclusions such as 1+2=2. Maybe I'm too presumptuous, so I'll explain my perspective. I am awareness. I know this because, I am aware of the room I'm in, I am aware of sounds, feelings and thoughts. I am also aware of the presence of the awareness as kind of watcher of things. I am aware of my body, but my body is not aware of me, the awareness. When I speak about the body, I am speaking about it from the perspective of this awareness and how the body is an appearance in the awareness. Now which feels more right to you? Are you the body, that which is observed or are you the awareness the observer? This is an important distinction in the belief, that I am a body. There is only awareness, which is my essence, everything that I am aware of, is an appearance and is relative to me, the awareness. What appears, is me, but is not "me", the awareness If this seems redundant I apologize. |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 15:07:52 GMT -5
Seems like a simple question asked.
First you need to define what reality is for you.
It's absolute nonsense not to think thoughts and beliefs do not change reality as defined in this 3D world. I mean I think if a outsider was to come to this forum and read of the the crazy opinions of some here they would really wonder if these people are on hard drugs.
Think about it. It's been proven millions of times that Christian Scientist have healed themselves over and over again just by meditation as they use meditation. Hell it happened to me. A old cute short bearded wizard was renting a downstairs room from me. The guy was a yogi, and a Christian Scientist. One day I got very sick, running a high fever, vomiting the whole works. I caught this bad flu that was sweeping the Ojai area. No one had it for less than 4 days and a old person died from it. Larry the "wizard" has such a beautiful soul that feels everything and and does more volunteer work than anyone I know. That night I went to sleep upstairs with a pail by my bed and a fever of 102. When I woke up which was only day 2 none of my symptoms were there! I felt great, went downstairs and I asked Larry I feel great what happened it was only then he tells me he did some CS healing on me. Now what would you think.
The power of thought is very great on this level of being. Don't get wrapped up in this neo-advaita crap they are not your thoughts. In the ultimate view of things this would be 100% true that thoughts are not yours, no ownership there. However when you think that give yourself a slap on the face and look to see where you are living. Everything in this world you reside in is very real and frankly I get upset when people go right to the absolute and say stupid things that do not in anyway help you for the world you now live in.
Why talk about things that are very high leanings from the absolute when they do not apply to where you are living when it comes to things physical. Now on a psychological level things having to do with suffering can be help immensely in this world using these ideas from the absolute. But if your sick, or broke etc then please pay attention what you are standing on, your in a 3D world.
If you just want the reality of the absolute then just put a gun to your head and blow your brains out, really because then in quick fashion you have got rid of the other reality and your finished.
Lastly do not mistake what I am saying. You can be sick real sick or you can be broke which seems to be happening to a lot of people these days. You can view this from the absolute and get quiet and still and in that moment you will know all is fine and perfect so great!
But only great for that moment of insight that all is perfect. The next perfect moment your body is still hurting, there is still pain the same with money so my advise is do not be stupid and think that this insight into the perfect moment is going to help your body or finances all it's going to do is give you a little satisfaction that it's not the real you and in the next moment you are throwing up in the pail. Be smart use what you will that you know will help you.
Peace
Michael
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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 15:58:36 GMT -5
Good post,
Sounds like your saying that, simply being the awareness, turns a person into some, unreal state of useless Bliss. lol
The only thing that changes in the world, is the mental suffering, that's it.
You still get sick, you still can't pay the rent, but it doesn't stress you out.
Your simply shifting identification away from, oh poor me and how I'm suffering, to being aware of sickness and to that that doesn't suffer.
If I am aware of pain, I must not be the pain.
If I am aware of the anxiety of not paying the rent, I must not be that anxiety.
Are you getting this?
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 17:05:07 GMT -5
TRF are you for real friend? No I am not getting this it's stupid no offense. Sure you can say all that crap so what. Listen it's not hard and it doesn't matter if you you somehow realize it's not really you. The non-you is still going to feel like crap or worse just because you had some super insight that it's not the real me does not mean anything when your body is going through this or you are kicked out on the streets in the middle of winter and the missions are full. This is exactly what my post is about. A person much more awaken than me once said " Live in the world but be not part of it" Your here guy and you need to accept that fact. The correct thing you posted was the mental suffering this is where such a insight of" it's not really me" can and does help immensely but please let's real. You have to do what you need to do if your sick which can mean taking meds, healing visualization whatever and when you have no money you need to set your mind into a prosperity mode and become pro-active. I laugh at people who say silly things like this and they learn real fast if they really get a sickness or have no money. Thoughts indeed are powerful yes they are imaginary and yes you live in a imaginary world but hey that is the way it is. Take Nis for example he knew all this stuff. He knew the absolute was him. He knew the great deception by making the mistake in thinking you were a person, he knew how to get to the absolute by using the IA consciousness to get to the absolute and finally see who you are BUT he knew one more thing if he did not get off his butt every day and work his small beedie business his family would have no food. This happened to me I had a real awakening very similar to what ZD wrote so well about his lovely book "Pouring Concrete". IT happened when I was in a foreign country lost all my money and it was a lot in just a few days and did not even have enough money to come back to the US and no home to go to. I was shocked and surprised that in the middle of my life, my life was doing a deadfall on me and I woke up bigtime I will not go into detail but if you read the great book ZD wrote you will see. However even though the illusion was finally over I still had to use everything in my toolbox to make it back to the US with my partner Whiskey pic below. If I just allowed myself to bathe into this wonderful experience know what I truly am I would probably be on the streets of Panama with my dog begging for food with no shelter. Yes that situation was very real even though it was a illusion on the highest level of realization.  What I am saying should not be hard to accept and understand because it's a very simple truth. For example there are certain times that shifting ID's as you say can really help. They really help with suffering, they really help if you know you are physically dying with a terminal illness. But for most of the time that insight, concept will be of little help. Does your world change when the hammer of awakening hits you hard on the head sure it does but you need to be using your common sense also. I know the truth and the truth set me free but I am also very grounded and know how to take care of myself in this imaginary world. It's great that we can know who we really are but that insight needs to co-exist with with our body-mind in a imaginary but sometimes very real world. love Michael |
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Post by therealfake on Jan 5, 2011 17:27:42 GMT -5
TRF are you for real friend? No I am not getting this it's stupid no offense. Sure you can say all that nuts so what. Listen it's not hard and it doesn't matter if you you somehow realize it's not really you. The non-you is still going to feel like crap or worse just because you had some super insight that it's not the real me does not mean anything when your body is going through this or you are kicked out on the streets in the middle of winter and the missions are full. This is exactly what my post is about. A person much more awaken than me once said " Live in the world but be not part of it" Your here guy and you need to accept that fact. The correct thing you posted was the mental suffering this is where such a insight of" it's not really me" can and does help immensely but for the rest of it please get real. You have to do what you need to do if your sick which can mean taking meds, healing visualization whatever and when you have no money you need to set your mind into a prosperity mode and become pro-active. I laugh at people who say silly things like this and they learn real fast if they really get a sickness or have no money. Thoughts indeed are powerful yes they are imaginary and yes you live in a imaginary world but hey that is the way it is. Take Nis for example he knew all this stuff. He knew the absolute was him. He knew the great deception by making the mistake in thinking you were a person, he knew how to get to the absolute by using the IA consciousness to get to the absolute and finally see who you are BUT he knew one more thing if he did not get off his butt every day and work his small beedie business his family would have no food. What I am saying should not be hard to accept and understand because it's a very simple truth. For example there are certain times that shifting ID's as you say can really help. They really help with suffering, they really help if you know you are physically dying with a terminal illness. But for most of the time that insight, concept will be of little help. Does your world change when the hammer of awakening hits you hard on the head sure it does but you need to be using your common sense also. I know the truth and the truth set me free but I am also very grounded and know how to take care of myself in this imaginary world. It's great that we can know who we really are but that insight needs to co-exist with with our body-mind in a imaginary but sometimes very real world. love Michael Hi Michael, Thanks for your honesty and sincerity... ...and yes, even stupidity is observed, no offense taken. |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 17:33:52 GMT -5
It's all given with love my dear friend. I wrote that post because at times I feel on this forum some info goes out that will not help anyone and in a sense gives the spirit of non-duality a bad name.
Good for you that you took no offense and I get that. Those that do and it really pushes their buttons well love them also.
Also TRF there were quite a few mistakes I made so I did edit the post so you should read it again.I am using a wireless keyboard cause my laptop keyboard broke and I don't have the money yet to get it fixed. The thing is if my wireless board gets to close to my laptop it does crazy things with words or whole sentence's it can take part of a sentence and place it somewhere else in the writing which can make things sound very different from what I meant to say.
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 5, 2011 22:18:44 GMT -5
Yeah so if by reality you mean the empirical world, then yes thoughts seem to effect it. I don't know about the real world though (if there is any such thing).
BTW, I've struggled with weight loss for years, and only now has it started to stabilize (hopefully for good). It just happens on its own though. I don't seem to have anything to do with it.
And yet, I hike often, and enter my caloric intake daily into an app that tracks this info to help me maintain my weight. Isn't this a contradiction? It seems like it would be. But it doesn't feel like a contradiction.
Hard to put into words.
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), and believing I'm god or whatever also isn't helpful.