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Post by Beingist on Jan 21, 2013 14:35:29 GMT -5
Want my opinion on why people don't post much? I think it's because the level of writing is so high here - darn bunch of intellectuals, it's intimidating. Such is a major reason why I don't post much. I also don't read text walls (sorry, tops).
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Post by tzujanli on Jan 21, 2013 14:35:52 GMT -5
Greetings.. Please look at the exchange openly.. enigma challenges my sincerity with, " Alas i don't".. i respond 'in kind', and make a very sincere appeal for discussion.. i have done this repeatedly.. i have also asked questions without any attached intention other than clarification.. i sense no intention from enigma other than to advance his agenda is a nearly 'ruthless' way.. here's a link: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=misc&thread=2592&post=97563Be well.. If you had no other intention but clarification, then why even bother pointing out E's 'agenda' (and even citing sources!)?Seems pretty clear to me that you've got some kind of bone to pick with Enigma. That indicates an attachment, and basically discredits everything you say, at least to me. As if this is any of your concern.. but, i am asking Peter to take into account the whole perspective, and i am admitting that i respond 'in kind'.. the issue with enigma and i is something i hope can be resolved, but.. as enigma points out ("alas i don't"), he judges my intentions contrary to the actuality, and.. treats attempts to clarify my intentions with dismissive or mocking retort.. Be well..
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Post by topology on Jan 21, 2013 14:36:23 GMT -5
I don't really use the word "trust" much. Saying I trust something implies a background of distrust. I guess where I'm coming from is that when I've evaluated who I was going to work with, I was following my own intuition. When considering what they said, I followed my own intuition. Trust/distrust never came into the picture. I dunno Top, maybe we'll pick it up another day .. when love and peace and joy returns to the forum. I trust that it will. intuition is cool. but how can you be certain that what you're intuiting is not just imagination? Skeptical inquiry, exploring and refining intuition. Experimenting. But always looking at how the intuition might be askew. Over time you refine your sense of intuition. What in you is making the determination of who/what is trustworthy? Are you not trusting that more than anything else? As for the forum, who knows. I prefer to see peace, love and joy as an internal condition, something which rules one's heart more than defining the condition of the external forum.
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Post by topology on Jan 21, 2013 14:39:10 GMT -5
Want my opinion on why people don't post much? I think it's because the level of writing is so high here - darn bunch of intellectuals, it's intimidating. Such is a major reason why I don't post much. I also don't read text walls (sorry, tops). S'all right. Maybe some day I'll be able to whittle my expression down to D!ck and Jane. ;D
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Post by Peter on Jan 21, 2013 14:40:56 GMT -5
Please look at the exchange openly.. enigma challenges my sincerity with, "Alas i don't".. i respond 'in kind', and make a very sincere appeal for discussion.. i have done this repeatedly.. i have also asked questions without any attached intention other than clarification.. i sense no intention from enigma other than to advance his agenda is a nearly 'ruthless' way.. here's a link. I think what Engima is telling you in that particular posting is that he senses that whatever he replies to you, you're going to make him wrong. Well, that's how I see your approach anyway. So given the circumstances, his reply seems like the best that can be done ie least traumatic for all concerned. I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there and say that "alas" reflects some genuine regret. And if it's not genuine, at least it's not offensive either. For some reason I find I've got a lot to say on this subject (ah Drama, my sweet muse, so long have I resisted your charms), so I'll start a new thread and rant away there....
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Post by quinn on Jan 21, 2013 14:40:57 GMT -5
big sloppy big wet bliss-bunny "yup-kiss" on that one Quinn. ... 'cept that my estimintation of that intellechual level is prehaps a bit less
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Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2013 14:43:05 GMT -5
No, wasn't implying that that was her sole motivation. No doubt she came at you full bore. Enigma I've got to amend this and stated fully: No, wasn't implying that that was her sole motivation. No doubt she came at you full bore. On the other hand, gentleness is always an option. It's always possible to see yourself in the other and show the other themselves in you by turning the other cheek. Now E, to be fair, I've seen you do that plenty of times. Yes, there are gentle creatures at heart who get caught in a storm of their own making and are always willing to find shelter. While resting, there is the potential for clarity. There are also Klingons who find dishonor in defeat and honorable death in battle. One does not turn the other cheek to a Klingon as it is the other cheek that is needed for victory. It's not the posturing and bravado that determines the course, but how much innocence still remains in the heart. As for Hetero, there is a deep and sensitive heart there, and I have no desire to defile it, but there are great walls surrounding it, and knocking on the door will not collapse the walls.
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2013 14:45:34 GMT -5
Esponja and Quinn not counted as women? Of course they are. I rarely see quinn since the link was posted about adyashanti's ebook. She mentioned taking the online course the book was created for. I don't see esponja around as much anymore. So, there's 3. Thank you for pointing that out. I had a conversation with another female member yesterday afternoon who enjoys, Thich. We both agreed there is too much of the male linear/logical aggressive, and not enough of the intuitive/nurturing aspect of the feminine. So she posts elsewhere. Sad but true. I'm here - mostly reading. I understand what you (heterodox) and Andrew are saying about a masculine/logical culture on this board - it's true. But I find it refreshing for the most part. Other boards I've been on, and in my meditation group, it can swing too much in the other direction. Things don't get said for fear of hurting feelings or pushing it too far. A perfect balance would be great, eh? The pithy words get said, but in a kind and gentle way. Feelings are as respected as ideas. The wisdom of the body is honored. Sure, this would all be great. But what I keep seeing is posters getting frustrated with the dominant culture that's here. So they dominate the board with their frustration - trying to get Enigma, Reefs and Silence to change what they can't possibly change - their personalities. Arisha does it, Andrew does it, others in the past have done it, and now we have tsu and you doing it. Those of you that want a gentler, more open board.....try this: dominate the board with your openness and gentleness. Even extending it to people you don't agree with or that rub you the wrong way. It's easy to be kind to kind people. Want my opinion on why people don't post much? I think it's because the level of writing is so high here - darn bunch of intellectuals, it's intimidating. [/quote] Its not so much the personalities that I would like to see change, I would like to see more openness to different spiritual paths.
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Post by silence on Jan 21, 2013 14:46:39 GMT -5
What I mean is this. In the widest context of there being no path, then anything done is as likely to take us towards Love as anything else. In the context of there being a path, focusing on being loving is useful. What I've said before and I think we've agreed on is that something is always happening. The person is always going about doing something even if it's just breathing in a sitting position. Love is something that defies any particular practice and is always available and present when all the interference of identifying as the person who is practicing to become more loving is absent. I didn't understand your distinction of focusing on being more loving vs. eating ice cream or watching football. To me it doesn't matter how mundane what's going on. So long as there's a willingness to get out of the way so to speak, Love can flourish. I would say that nothing actually gets left behind.... Ramana meditated, Niz still prayed and demonstrated devotion, Tolle focuses attention on presence, Katie is still open to questioning. If anything is released, it is merely the attachment to outcomes. It is entirely possible in non-attachment to choose love. Yes, nothing gets left behind. You can have a mind blowing "enlightenment" experience and transcend all of the crap that's ever bothered you. Transcend your identity and be in a state of pure bliss. However, you will just get pulled back to what you passed by until you accept it and move on. I'm sure there's practices out there to help facilitate that but really, your attention will naturally go back to what you have ignored or suppressed. All you have to do is not run from it. One thing that I observe has been relatively absent from the general forum focus...is the value of joyousness, celebration, gratitude, ease, love, the exquisite bliss that comes with surrender to God, lightness of being and happiness. I'm not saying that these qualities apply to me all the time, but I am never more than a simple choice away from any of them. And that's the point, sometimes the choice IS useful. We've had a lot of 'deadly seriousness' and 'Truth at all costs' talk in the last year, but what is often referred to as 'dualistic mind states' is dismissed, which is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it is reflective of over alignment with the non-dual paradigm. I know. The difficulty is that nobody needs any support knowing how to accept feeling good. They end up running into a brick wall over and over again trying to figure out how to deal with feeling bad. It's that focus that usually comes up here and really the answer to that is not to then tug harder at feeling good. Pushing away feeling bad and pulling at feeling good are the same dynamic. So if you don't push and you don't pull, what do you do? You might say what happens then is still a practice but I'd rather not.
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Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -5
Enigma I've got to amend this and stated fully: No, wasn't implying that that was her sole motivation. No doubt she came at you full bore. On the other hand, gentleness is always an option. It's always possible to see yourself in the other and show the other themselves in you by turning the other cheek. Now E, to be fair, I've seen you do that plenty of times. On that note, Silver, 'dox, farmer -- the pattern that I imagine here (and that I imagine that topo' first pointed up in the thread) is that Enigma responds to agression in kind more often than not because it is likely an indicator of attachment to a fixed position. If that's what you guys see in Enigma's writing, that's what you see and I sincerely have no position on that seeing. I said this to E about a week or two ago: life by model works for most, and personally, I think it the height of self-honesty to at least entertain, on a continual basis, the potential that my own life is run this way. ... oh, forgot to mention ... Reefs is a hopless case who has lost the use of his neck muscles and is thereby unable to turn the other cheek ... Well, I see him walk off the battle field on a pretty regular basis. It's not eggzakly an invitation to smite the other cheek, but I'm not sure I see the wisdom in that anhyoo.
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Post by silence on Jan 21, 2013 14:52:04 GMT -5
The opening post is just you digging up old posts with some passive aggressive inferences. That's the spinlessness I'm talking about. It's your unhealed projection rearing up again. I didn't write the post about arisha. You did. It originated from your lack of understanding about your own spinelessness. Okay, I wrote a post about arisha. What was the purpose of the thread?
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2013 14:58:25 GMT -5
Enigma I've got to amend this and stated fully: No, wasn't implying that that was her sole motivation. No doubt she came at you full bore. On the other hand, gentleness is always an option. It's always possible to see yourself in the other and show the other themselves in you by turning the other cheek. Now E, to be fair, I've seen you do that plenty of times. Yes, there are gentle creatures at heart who get caught in a storm of their own making and are always willing to find shelter. While resting, there is the potential for clarity. There are also Klingons who find dishonor in defeat and honorable death in battle. One does not turn the other cheek to a Klingon as it is the other cheek that is needed for victory. It's not the posturing and bravado that determines the course, but how much innocence still remains in the heart. As for Hetero, there is a deep and sensitive heart there, and I have no desire to defile it, but there are great walls surrounding it, and knocking on the door will not collapse the walls. Yet he probably sees great walls surrounding your heart. Maybe you are right, maybe he is right, maybe you are both right, maybe you are both wrong. I don't think 'dox is so certain in his position that he doesn't pay attention to where his messages are coming from. When I have asked you whether you consider it possible that you are coming from ego, you have told me that you seen/realized ego to be an illusion. The implication in your response is you can't be coming from ego and your basis for that is that you think seeings/realizations are the be all and end all. I contest this basis very strongly. And if I am right that you are coming from ego, and you have no awareness of that, then that actually makes you 'dangerous'.
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Post by laughter on Jan 21, 2013 15:03:17 GMT -5
Enigma I've got to amend this and stated fully: No, wasn't implying that that was her sole motivation. No doubt she came at you full bore. On the other hand, gentleness is always an option. It's always possible to see yourself in the other and show the other themselves in you by turning the other cheek. Now E, to be fair, I've seen you do that plenty of times. Yes, there are gentle creatures at heart who get caught in a storm of their own making and are always willing to find shelter. While resting, there is the potential for clarity. There are also Klingons who find dishonor in defeat and honorable death in battle. One does not turn the other cheek to a Klingon as it is the other cheek that is needed for victory. It's not the posturing and bravado that determines the course, but how much innocence still remains in the heart. As for Hetero, there is a deep and sensitive heart there, and I have no desire to defile it, but there are great walls surrounding it, and knocking on the door will not collapse the walls. legh Daq jIH SoH PATAQ! (** SNEERS AND SPITS ON THE GROUND AND SNEERS SOME MORE **)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 15:03:46 GMT -5
Of course they are. I rarely see quinn since the link was posted about adyashanti's ebook. She mentioned taking the online course the book was created for. I don't see esponja around as much anymore. So, there's 3. Thank you for pointing that out. I had a conversation with another female member yesterday afternoon who enjoys, Thich. We both agreed there is too much of the male linear/logical aggressive, and not enough of the intuitive/nurturing aspect of the feminine. So she posts elsewhere. Sad but true. I'm here - mostly reading. I understand what you (heterodox) and Andrew are saying about a masculine/logical culture on this board - it's true. But I find it refreshing for the most part. Other boards I've been on, and in my meditation group, it can swing too much in the other direction. Things don't get said for fear of hurting feelings or pushing it too far. A perfect balance would be great, eh? The pithy words get said, but in a kind and gentle way. Feelings are as respected as ideas. The wisdom of the body is honored. Sure, this would all be great. But what I keep seeing is posters getting frustrated with the dominant culture that's here. So they dominate the board with their frustration - trying to get Enigma, Reefs and Silence to change what they can't possibly change - their personalities. Arisha does it, Andrew does it, others in the past have done it, and now we have tsu and you doing it. Those of you that want a gentler, more open board.....try this: dominate the board with your openness and gentleness. Even extending it to people you don't agree with or that rub you the wrong way. It's easy to be kind to kind people. Want my opinion on why people don't post much? I think it's because the level of writing is so high here - darn bunch of intellectuals, it's intimidating. Hey quinn Before I get to the body of a response, I just wanted to say I envy you having taken the Adya online thing. The insights you've shared in your few posts since the download link was provided were refreshing to read onsite, too. I'm not interested in dominating anything. Having been away as I've mentioned, it is easier seeing what's going on here. Since zendancer left, this place has taken on the countenance of Ruthless Truth. His presence kept it in check for the most part. His interactions as moderator were to go back to basics. Direct seeing, mindfulness, the breath, and that's where he would come in and post from when the place was under siege. I've posted on a few discussion boards through the years. I didn't see the pithy getting said. I didn't see the 2,3,4 posters taking on one poster because they had a different viewpoint. This practice resonates more with what the Church 'practiced' in the Middle Ages. Too bad Giordano Bruno isn't here to relate his experiences with this kind of 'practice.' I know I never signed up for the Ruthless Truth nonsense. I'm sure most who joined here didn't, either. It just wasn't worth their time. They simply moved on. Just my take on it. *edited for frozen fingers screwing up the quotes leading to my response.
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Post by Beingist on Jan 21, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -5
If you had no other intention but clarification, then why even bother pointing out E's 'agenda' (and even citing sources!)?Seems pretty clear to me that you've got some kind of bone to pick with Enigma. That indicates an attachment, and basically discredits everything you say, at least to me. As if this is any of your concern.. but, i am asking Peter to take into account the whole perspective, and i am admitting that i respond 'in kind'.. the issue with enigma and i is something i hope can be resolved, but.. as enigma points out ("alas i don't"), he judges my intentions contrary to the actuality, and.. treats attempts to clarify my intentions with dismissive or mocking retort.. Be well.. It's only my concern as a member of this forum, with a limited responsibility to call out trolls if, when, or where they pop up. Ultimately, any action in terms of your status is up to Peter, and I'll leave him be to do as he will in your case. My intentions are a bit different from Peter's, in that I'm more simply likely to just call a spade a spade, and am so impelled to let you know, for your own sake, good sir, that you are behaving as a troll, who has a bone to pick with enigma. I don't view such, (or you), as 'wrong' for this, but rather, I'm simply wont to remind you of it, inasmuch as it descredits anything else you may say, in regards to the Advaitist topics of the forum. In short, I'm just telling you that you're making an a$$ out of yourself with such behavior.
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