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Crikey this board is moving fast - I had to search through your last 50 posts because I remembered I wanted to respond to this one.

Thanks for replying Enigma - I wasn't sure you were going to. I didn't mean my question in a challenging "Look at yourself" way (although there was a flavour of that). I thought there was an answer along the lines of my "comments" being about the personal and your "feedback" being about the ideas. But then if personal is just an idea in itself the the distinction is lost...and then I'm lost too.

I'd be very surprised if you could be clear about my motive in interacting with Steven as it is no one thing. To a large extent I don't worry about it - the post is read, the urge to respond is felt, the fingers start typing whatever comes to mind. Working out the actual motivation takes quite a bit of soul searching - and I may well miss something or get the amounts wrong.

There's a large dose of irritation - being rubbed up the wrong way, so you know there's a boundary there. The gap - gulf - between what I see as the emotional tone of Steven's posting and the attempt at simulating humour is like a splintered shard in my brain. There's compassion, a desire to help - I don't know where that would be in percentage terms. There's showing off intellectually: "I see this thing that you don't see", there's showing off emotionally: "I'm so reasonable and grounded and you're losing the plot". There's loyalty and respect for where I think you (Enigma) are and how you "do your thing" here...which did get called into question with the whole suggestion of "group think" coming up.

There's a small smattering of "oh why can't we all just get along and let everyone be who they want to be". And I ask myself why I can't do that for Steven?

He's no interest in listening or Doing The Work. But neither do you or Zendancer, and yet I've never felt the need to suggest that either you or he should. I think in Steve's case the bottom line is that I've no confidence that he's "There" and I think he's puffing himself up. And more than that, he's actually needing to "Get Something" from others - that need for recognition, to be seen as The Teacher. That predatory drive. How he was with Acewall, and then taking on Freejoy with similar terms.

I took the same reaction to Randy/Michaelsees and also to Lord SwamiCollins, both of whom called me a 'trouble maker' and I'll agree I did make trouble for them. Actually SCollins said he'd reported me to the police. So with Steven here, that makes an average of 1 a year.

I don't know, it's like being at a British Pantomime where someone comes on stage saying "Look at ME, I'm a Spiritual Teacher" and I'm the audience yelling back "Ooooh No You're Noooooot".

So unreal things exist. OK.

Does anything real exist? If so, what? For example.

Or is that that _______ thing? Like everthing that is and isn't and might be and was and will be and won't be?

Well that charming little sound bite generates irritation.

So please to explain: In what sense does free will exist and in what sense does it not?

Venn diagram might help here.

You missed yourself off that list of exceptions Steven. I haven't seen any evidence of you looking at a damn thing. I was thinking about why you've ignored so many of my questions and had a 2nd epiphany - I hope to get a post written about it while the energy is still there. There's a bit of ranting to be done, and hopefully, some swearing.


I totally agree, Kate. There's an idea in alchemy that we need to get our cauldron pretty hot before the impurities can be burned off. Certainly been a bit of heat generated in this thread!

Ah yes, that's certainly true. And then if they can't find it, they'll invent it - probably with a long neck.

I was referring to your post here.

I take it from your reluctance to answer my question just a couple of sentences earlier that you do consider yourself to be seeing the world without any filters.

Regardless, I'm curious: would you say that you consider (by 'you' I mean your mind which is comprehending what I'm writing and formulating a reply) yourself able to clearly see the true motivations and current blind spots of others, or do you just not worry in the slightest about it since such things are illusionary in the first place? .... or some 3rd option I haven't thought about because that's usually what it turns out to be

Are you? I felt a bit left out.

Well, lots to catch up on - been out with the kids all day. So lots of different things came up for me during that whirlwind trip through 9 (nine!) pages of posts since I last checked in:

Just to remind Steven in case he was accidentally failing to answer that question of whether or not he has someone in his life who's opinion he values who also tells him when he's wrong? I also had that Post from this morning where I asked some questions around him saying "the problem in some cases, we assume that becuase we have centered ourselves in the beingless being of essential nature that no further work is to be done". There's a lot flying around Steven so I assume the stream flowed on before you'd read it, but if you just decided it wasn't relevant to you then of course that's your prerogative.


The word "Poking" was introduced by Zendancer's predecessor - LightMystic - who I assume either ascended or died suddenly. He left without saying goodbye. It's been in common use here since 2008 to describe any sort of challenge when someone says something and someone else asks them about it. Tath is the first person to equate poking with bullying however - unless I missed a memo.

I notice that Steven is back to LOL'ing - he must be feeling better. There was even a "LMFAO" going on. Hey, don't get me wrong, it's a great avatar. Kudos FreeJoy. I'd give you a Karma point IF I HAD ANY. Myself, I had quite a grin for a couple of minutes. Arse stayed attached though, no danger there.

Angela, I really appreciate your posts. They have such a radically different flavour - it's like night and day to the rest of this thread. Thank you.

I've taken Steven's point that "it's all stories", although I also know from experience how irritating it can be when someone says "that's your story". So our whole lives are stories. So in a sense, they're not real. But within the context of a story, something can be real and true. Like "Luke Skywalker owns a LightSabre". That's a true statement. About a totally made up story, but it's still true. Relatively.


I read it 5 and fared no better. Steven, you're trying to be a teacher, guy! Never never use a double negative, unless you're deliberately trying to make your communication unintelligible.


Well you're a contributor to this story too Enigma. I was sorry you chose to say "y'all" rather than "we're all". Are you saying you have no filter? If so, you know how that whole "I see this clearly, just as it is, and you lot don't" line pans out. I was surprised you opened the door to Andrew about the possibility that you might not be 100% secure - is there doubt?

OK, this is where I see you as - begging your pardon - having a bit of a blind spot.

Q1. Do you feel or do you not feel that you have further work to be done?

Q2. If you think you do have further work to be done, what do you think that work consists of? On a day to day nuts and bolts 'actually doing', what is it that needs to be done?

Q3. Is it probable that other see things about you that you yourself cannot see, because it would be damaging to your ego to see them?

Q4. Right now, in this thread, do you feel open to considering what is being mirrored back to you, or do you feel defensive?

It doesn't have to be win/lose here you know. You can hold your mirror up to Enigma so he can see what it is you want him to see at the same time seeing something about yourself; it doesn't invalidate your point to be open to considering what else is going on. A bunch of peeps chasing each other around with mirrors - hope no-one trips.