awareness/perception all one ?

[runstill]

I thought I read in a thread here the other day that zendancer had posted in, where I think he stated some thing to the effect that when one is in a state of ego less perception.

That it is all one perception. If I remembered it right what does that mean.

[zendancer]

Runstill: I'm not sure which thread that was or what the context of the quote was. The perception of someone who imagines separateness is the same as someone who does not. It is the conception of what is perceived that is different. If we look at the world without thinking (without distinction), then we see "what is." We see isness without imagining that it is divided and without imagining that the see-er is separate from the isness.

There is only oneness. Oneness sees oneness using eyes. Oneness imagines "things" using minds. If we look without imagining, we see only________________, a unified field of being.
Does that answer your question?

[peanut]

zendancer...so that is why is is vital to stop the incessant thoughts right? Then we will see "what is." No separation.

[zendancer]

Peanut: Yes. Not permanently, but long enough to see the world as it IS rather than how we imagine it. For most adults the mind (head-knowing) is dominant. For young children direct sensory perception (body-knowing) is dominant. We practice shifting our attention from thoughts to what we can see or hear in order to re-learn how to do what we automatically and unconsciously did when we were young children. We want to subordinate the mind's intelligence to a far more powerful intelligence. The mind, or intellect, compared to what manifests through the body, is like a hand-held calculator compared to an IBM mainframe computer. We want to abandon the triviality of conceptualization long enough to become reunited with the power that runs the universe. Who we are is unimaginable, but as long as petty thoughts have the power to psychologically jerk us around and keep us distracted, we cannot discover the truth of our being.

[klaus]

Jun 10, 2010 14:54:35 GMT -5 peanut said:

zendancer...so that is why is is vital to stop the incessant thoughts right? Then we will see "what is." No separation.

Peanut,

In my experience you cannot prevent thoughts from arising, but you can stop putting your attention on them, eventually the mind will settle down and allow you to experience the isness of the present moment without distinction.

[zendancer]

Jun 10, 2010 15:20:01 GMT -5 klaus said:

Jun 10, 2010 14:54:35 GMT -5 peanut said:

zendancer...so that is why is is vital to stop the incessant thoughts right? Then we will see "what is." No separation.

Peanut,

In my experience you cannot prevent thoughts from arising, but you can stop putting your attention on them, eventually the mind will settle down and allow you to experience the isness of the present moment without distinction.

Klaus: That's correct. I never suggest trying to stop thoughts from occurring or to fight with thoughts. It is simply a matter of shifting attention repeatedly to "what is" until thoughts lose their dominance. Eventually, the mind becomes a servant rather than a master.

[klaus]

Jun 10, 2010 15:31:59 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Jun 10, 2010 15:20:01 GMT -5 klaus said:

Peanut,

In my experience you cannot prevent thoughts from arising, but you can stop putting your attention on them, eventually the mind will settle down and allow you to experience the isness of the present moment without distinction.

Klaus: That's correct. I never suggest trying to stop thoughts from occurring or to fight with thoughts. It is simply a matter of shifting attention repeatedly to "what is" until thoughts lose their dominance. Eventually, the mind becomes a servant rather than a master.

zendancer,

I never meant to imply that you suggested trying to stop thoughts from occurring, just sharing my experience and addressing peanut's question about stopping thoughts.

[Myself]

It seems to me that shifting attention is as automatic as thinking...

[zendancer]

Myself: The truth of what's happening is neither automatic nor not automatic. That's the mystery. Oneness is doing everything that's being done, but it's doing it "just like this." Jesus said that when seeds are thrown out, some fall on rich soil and some fall on barren rock. When he opened his mouth to teach, he was doing what he had to do, and people who heard him did what they had to do in response. Some people took his words to heart, and some people ignored him. That is who we are and how we manifest, and it is a spectacle to behold, isn't it?

[peanut]

zendancer and klaus....oh my gosh...once again i was not clear ...sorry.....yes i realize that we can not stop thoughts from arising. They are like bubbles rising in a pot of hot water...they just happen. And yes vital to turn attention from dwelling on them to seeing "what is" and consequently there will be no separation right? Again..i aoplogize ..

[klaus]

Peanut,

It's just a play being performed on the forum.
As zendancer says: "that is who we are and how we manifest, and it is a spectacle to behold, isn't it."

[Myself]

Yes, it is!
Thank you Zendancer, insightful post.
I was basically saying that I don't seem to have any control regarding where attention is going. All I can do is watch it doing its thing.
The difference is that I'm not consumed by thought and attention anymore. It's like something in my head snapped, and there's something in there that watches everything with curiosity and a big grin.

Jun 10, 2010 18:16:26 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Myself: The truth of what's happening is neither automatic nor not automatic. That's the mystery. Oneness is doing everything that's being done, but it's doing it "just like this." Jesus said that when seeds are thrown out, some fall on rich soil and some fall on barren rock. When he opened his mouth to teach, he was doing what he had to do, and people who heard him did what they had to do in response. Some people took his words to heart, and some people ignored him. That is who we are and how we manifest, and it is a spectacle to behold, isn't it?

[runstill]

OK after three hours of reading through threads I found it. But first of all zendancer thanks for your reply.

[ oneness sees oneness using eyes ] answered a question I hadn't thought of yet that made a light go on!

you wrote in [re:the very center] reply #5 & reply #10 may 3rd, 2010, that I am and you are, and every one is looking out of the eyes of every living creature.

That isn't exactly how you put it, but when I read it some thing inside me resonated. What your saying is a paradox but it felt true even though my mind can't imagine it being possible.

I wonder if you can expand on it a little.

[enigma]

Jun 10, 2010 22:53:47 GMT -5 @Myself said:

I was basically saying that I don't seem to have any control regarding where attention is going. All I can do is watch it doing its thing.

I would agree that attention is as uncontrollable as thinking, but the difficulty is in addressing it as an issue of control as though it were something you are not, rather than an issue of what I'll call for now, 'your interest' (not referring to the person), which is more fundamental than mind and much closer than thinking. By 'closer' I mean inherent in the movement of the intelligence that you are, and while it is not a matter of control, it IS a matter of interest.

I seem to talk a lot about innocence because when i look at this i see nothing but this simple innocence. I said somewhere recently, you'll walk into hell just to feel the heat on your skin and smell the scent of brimstone in the air, without a thought about when you might leave or if there is even an exit. That's how you got into hell in the first place but it wasn't a mistake and attention is what keeps you here. Innocence is not bound in it's movement and is free to move into, and out of, hell by a simple movement of attention. This is innocence, and attention moves with that absolute innocence in which the thought of control cannot arise, and yet who's attention is this?

Mind doesn't know this attention, nor does it know of innocence. Mind is 'attended to'. Thoughts are 'attended to'. You are that attention, and so looked at from this perspective, something collapses and becomes very immediate and present. It's no longer 'I can't seem to control this'. Now it's, 'Why am I so interested?', though answering the question will change precisely nothing, and nothing needs to change. Innocence has not made a mistake and doesn't need to be corrected. This is what is discovered.

[zendancer]

Nice thread. It reads almost like poetry.

Runstill: It's hard to expand upon the line you asked about other than to repeat that there is no separation. All seeming separateness is apparent, only. The one who writes these words is the same one who reads these words (though it may appear to be happening through numerous human beings). All separation is imagined. When "you" look at the world, I am what sees. When "I" look at the world, You are what sees. It is the same One seeing. The mind cannot grasp this.