beliefs

[Candle]

Beliefs can be anything. I can go to some traffic lights and when i see the red i can call it blue. This is a false belief. However if i look at the red and call it red - This is a true belief it is then a proven fact. A fact is true. True is reality.

Would people on this forum agree?

[zendancer]

No. The truth is beyond imagination, ideas, and words. There is a big difference between what a traffic light IS and what we call "a traffic light." All statements ABOUT reality are provisional and relative.

You wrote: "I can go to some traffic lights and when i see the red i can call it blue. This is a false belief." First of all, when you say that you see "red," you are making a distinction rather than a belief. Second, all distinctions are both true and false AT THE SAME TIME because all distinctions are self-referential. Who is it that makes distinctions? Who is it that divides the world into imaginative components. Investigate what thinks it sees a traffic light, and the underlying issue will be perceived in a broader context. Cheers.

[cabinintheforest]

Interesting post zendancer.

''There is a big difference between what a traffic light IS and what we call "a traffic light."

Can you explain then. What IS a traffic light?

[zendancer]

Cabin: The next time you look at anything, try to see what it IS rather than your ideas about it. A dog or a baby, for example, do not see trees. They see the living truth--what IS. Humans, after babyhood, begin to make distinctions; they imagine the existence of things. They imagine that the seamless field of being in front of their eyes is divided into parts. After imagining separate parts, they then imagine symbols that can be used to represent those parts. Thus, the word "tree" is used to represent the idea "tree" that has been abstracted from the living truth. As adults, we live in an abstract world of ideas, images, and symbols, but the truth is prior to all of this.

Look at what is commonly called "a traffic light." A baby has not yet learned to see such a thing as separate from the existential field in front of its eyes, so what does it see? It clearly sees what the traffic light IS, but it has not yet imagined that what it sees is divided in any way. It hasn't even imagined that it, itself, is separate from what is being seen. To understand what a traffic light IS you must look with great intensity and curiosity. You must return to the kind of non-conceptual awareness that you practiced as a baby. You must become innocent of the world and be willing to admit that you do not know what you're looking at. The truth cannot be explained or communicated in words because words are two steps removed from reality. When you look at _________, look so hard that you burn through the illusion of both words and ideas. Many people have had deep experiences of cosmic consciousness while pursuing this type of self-inquiry. One glimpse of the underlying truth, and your understanding of the world will be forever changed. Cheers.

[eputkonen]

Apr 17, 2010 8:58:27 GMT -5 @Candle said:

Beliefs can be anything. I can go to some traffic lights and when i see the red i can call it blue. This is a false belief. However if i look at the red and call it red - This is a true belief it is then a proven fact. A fact is true. True is reality.

Would people on this forum agree?

Incorrect...no belief there, just whether you are labeling correctly or incorrect what is.

What is is a red light...whether you call it blue or red is not based upon belief. You see the light...you label it.

A belief would be, when I come to the next light (several miles away), I believe it will be red. Belief always regards what is not known and not directly experienced. If it is right in front of you (the red light you are stopped at)...it is already known in experience...it is not a matter of belief anymore.

[zendancer]

Eric: Precisely. Thanks for clarifying the secondary issue that I ignored.

[enigma]

Apr 17, 2010 15:52:10 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Cabin: The next time you look at anything, try to see what it IS rather than your ideas about it. A dog or a baby, for example, do not see trees. They see the living truth--what IS. Humans, after babyhood, begin to make distinctions; they imagine the existence of things. They imagine that the seamless field of being in front of their eyes is divided into parts. After imagining separate parts, they then imagine symbols that can be used to represent those parts. Thus, the word "tree" is used to represent the idea "tree" that has been abstracted from the living truth. As adults, we live in an abstract world of ideas, images, and symbols, but the truth is prior to all of this.

Look at what is commonly called "a traffic light." A baby has not yet learned to see such a thing as separate from the existential field in front of its eyes, so what does it see? It clearly sees what the traffic light IS, but it has not yet imagined that what it sees is divided in any way. It hasn't even imagined that it, itself, is separate from what is being seen. To understand what a traffic light IS you must look with great intensity and curiosity. You must return to the kind of non-conceptual awareness that you practiced as a baby. You must become innocent of the world and be willing to admit that you do not know what you're looking at. The truth cannot be explained or communicated in words because words are two steps removed from reality. When you look at _________, look so hard that you burn through the illusion of both words and ideas. Many people have had deep experiences of cosmic consciousness while pursuing this type of self-inquiry. One glimpse of the underlying truth, and your understanding of the world will be forever changed. Cheers.

Very well stated. Thanks for that.

[matt]

Apr 18, 2010 8:39:13 GMT -5 eputkonen said:

A belief would be, when I come to the next light (several miles away), I believe it will be red. Belief always regards what is not known and not directly experienced. If it is right in front of you (the red light you are stopped at)...it is already known in experience...it is not a matter of belief anymore.

Nice. This reminded me of an Adyashanti video I ran across...where he says. . .



"There's no beliefs in Reality. Reality doesn't need a belief. Reality is just the way things are.

You don't have to believe in the way things are for them to be the way they are.

You have to believe that things are not the way they are in order to perceive things other than they actually are.

Once you get the notion or start to work with the notion that suffering in any form is caused by a misperception, and a misperception is caused by a belief, an idea, that's grabbed, that's believed...a conclusion....Once you get that very, very simple idea the whole way you look at things starts to shift."



www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OgeC-Q7HB8

[divinity]

A belief is only a thought you think often enough... that's how people can actually believe that some races are inferior to others. That's how otherwise intelligent people can follow maniacs!

[ravenscroft]

eric I like that

this may solve a debate a friend I have been having about belief

nice example

;D




www.enlightenmentdudes.com

[BobTheBuilder]

Is it possible to get rid of all beliefs?

[zendancer]

Jun 16, 2010 10:31:24 GMT -5 @BobTheBuilder said:

Is it possible to get rid of all beliefs?

Yes.

[ravenscroft]

Jun 16, 2010 10:31:24 GMT -5 @BobTheBuilder said:

Is it possible to get rid of all beliefs?

bob I just like the way Jed says it in this video (I did not make this one, ahabcaptn did) sorry about the Ad to the right - I guess this blog does that...LOL

[JeanClaudeVanDamme]

Nice music playing in the background of that video!

[zendancer]

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Thanks. (great music).