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Post by laughter on Nov 13, 2024 15:18:05 GMT -5
I add "ha ha" at the end for the 80 words required Oh that probably changed the meaning entirely!  |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 13, 2024 17:09:48 GMT -5
I add "ha ha" at the end for the 80 words required Oh that probably changed the meaning entirely! L, I can understand how someone might take that as disrespectful and insensitive but that wasn’t the intent. My apologies if I’ve offended you. I was merely testing Reefs AI Detector against a ChatGPT enhanced version of ZDs post to see if would recognized the AI enhancement. It did not, which I found interesting. I also ran a second enhanced version without the “ha ha” and a more suitable phrase which also was undetectable as AI generated. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 13, 2024 18:01:26 GMT -5
Oh that probably changed the meaning entirely! L, I can understand how someone might take that as disrespectful and insensitive but that wasn’t the intent. My apologies if I’ve offended you. I was merely testing Reefs AI Detector against a ChatGPT enhanced version of ZDs post to see if would recognized the AI enhancement. It did not, which I found interesting. I also ran a second enhanced version without the “ha ha” and a more suitable phrase which also was undetectable as AI generated. Dude. I was joking!  |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 13, 2024 18:04:07 GMT -5
L, I can understand how someone might take that as disrespectful and insensitive but that wasn’t the intent. My apologies if I’ve offended you. I was merely testing Reefs AI Detector against a ChatGPT enhanced version of ZDs post to see if would recognized the AI enhancement. It did not, which I found interesting. I also ran a second enhanced version without the “ha ha” and a more suitable phrase which also was undetectable as AI generated. Dude. I was joking! Dang. Shoulda ran it through the AI translator.  |
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Post by melvin on Nov 13, 2024 18:39:49 GMT -5
Surreal and Unreal It`s between the unreal and real. You can see it happening when the past and present merge and become one giving you a picture and feeling of nostalgia. Of something profound which happened from your past life manifesting in the present. It`s this feeling and thinking of one hit by puff of lighted ganja stick, a dose of codeine to remedy a persistent cough, several gulps of ice cold beer, a sip of Scotch whisky with brewed coffee. Dreamy it may seem but it`s what seekers do of truth to get them going, experiencing illusions and delusions of this world. Once surreal. No need to take in anything to prep up wakefulness in one's mind. Did you write this? Interesting description. It relates to what I hear people saying about their perceptions of reality. The way I'd express the bottom-line conclusion is as follows: The common-state of mind is not to live in the moment, not to live directly, but rather, indirectly, as mitigated by abstractions and emotional reactions. Perceptions are filtered through these abstractions and emotional movements. ZD uses the term, "meta-reality". People can experience a sense of eeriness, or an uncanny feeling, based on dissonance between perception and the filter of their mind. One limiting and dramatic case is the horror-movie industry. The Zombie trope is based on this, the Matrix, for example, is quite overt about it. Of course, one might object to the duality of perception, and perception as filtered by the mind.  Yes, I wrote this last year I think. I get something to write like that when my muse is awake. I have several of them in Fig's Spiritual Gab but she obliterated them. I failed to get copies from her forum when she permanently banned me. The fact is she deleted them all. I got this article I wrote from my Facebook's memories that comes now and then. If I happen to see one, I will post them here, these musings. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 13, 2024 19:01:05 GMT -5
Atman/soul is what I believe is consciousness who is one with the Paramatman/Superconsciousnes. Above them is the Parambrahman whom Nisa calls the Absolute Truth, the Ultimate Reality. To a dualist, it's like saying Lord Krishna, the Parambrahman, Ultimate Reality is present in everyone's hearts as the Paramatman side by side with the Atman. Like two birds on the branch of the tree. One bird is observing what the other is doing. I am following Chaitanya Mahaprabhu 's philosophy, Acintya Bheda Abheda Tattva, which means that the Atman and Paramatman/Parambrahman are simultaneously one yet different. To a nondualist, there's no separation between Atman and Parambrahman. All are one. So, a nondualist who realizes he's one with the Parambrahman merges into the Absolute Truth and has become the Parambrahman/God himself. Are you? FWIW, there is no "merging" with the Absolute because there are not two of anything, and it takes two to "merge." The realization is that what one IS is already the Absolute, but this does not mean what most people imagine. It doesn't mean special powers or anything like that. It means that one's ordinary everyday life is how the Absolute manifests. It's like relaxing into a felt sense of "flow" without the need to reflect upon it. There is an error I can't get anyone here to see. I have never found any teacher that surpassed Jesus. About age 14 I began to see errors and discrepancies between what the church taught and what Jesus taught. He said a student can be like his teacher, but cannot supersede his teacher (basically speaking of himself). He said everything you see me do, you can do also, and even greater things. That blows the church out of the water, I saw something had gone wrong in the church. In the Bible you find the principle of the remnant. The remnant, about 10%, get it. They usually get kicked out of the church. In the old days they got burned at the stake, or confined to house arrest. So we all have the capacity to be ~more than we now are~. You find this everywhere. Some Zen teachers/Masters confidently demonstrated to students, or new students, na, you haven't...you're not done. You find it in Taoism, Sufism, in Kabbalah. When Jesus met certain people, maybe everyone, he didn't just see who they were, he saw ~them~, who they would become. He met Simon, and said, no, you're not Simon, I'm going to call you Peter. He didn't pick the disciples at random, he picked ~them~. And he tested people of the borderline. The rich young ruler really thought he wanted to follow Jesus. He asked Jesus, what must I do? Jesus said, keep the commandments. The guy said, I already do that. So Jesus gave him the next step. And Jesus said, if you want to follow me, you have to give up everything. He tested a woman once, a non-Jew. She asked to be taught. He said, why should I give to dogs (what belongs to the Jews). She answered, yes, but even dogs get to eat scraps off the Master's table. Jesus was impressed. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 13, 2024 19:24:35 GMT -5
Dude. I was joking! Dang. Shoulda ran it through the AI translator. |
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Post by melvin on Nov 13, 2024 20:11:47 GMT -5
FWIW, there is no "merging" with the Absolute because there are not two of anything, and it takes two to "merge." The realization is that what one IS is already the Absolute, but this does not mean what most people imagine. It doesn't mean special powers or anything like that. It means that one's ordinary everyday life is how the Absolute manifests. It's like relaxing into a felt sense of "flow" without the need to reflect upon it. There is an error I can't get anyone here to see. I have never found any teacher that surpassed Jesus. About age 14 I began to see errors and discrepancies between what the church taught and what Jesus taught. He said a student can be like his teacher, but cannot supersede his teacher (basically speaking of himself). He said everything you see me do, you can do also, and even greater things. That blows the church out of the water, I saw something had gone wrong in the church. In the Bible you find the principle of the remnant. The remnant, about 10%, get it. They usually get kicked out of the church. In the old days they got burned at the stake, or confined to house arrest. So we all have the capacity to be ~more than we now are~. You find this everywhere. Some Zen teachers/Masters confidently demonstrated to students, or new students, na, you haven't...you're not done. You find it in Taoism, Sufism, in Kabbalah. When Jesus met certain people, maybe everyone, he didn't just see who they were, he saw ~them~, who they would become. He met Simon, and said, no, you're not Simon, I'm going to call you Peter. He didn't pick the disciples at random, he picked ~them~. And he tested people of the borderline. The rich young ruler really thought he wanted to follow Jesus. He asked Jesus, what must I do? Jesus said, keep the commandments. The guy said, I already do that. So Jesus gave him the next step. And Jesus said, if you want to follow me, you have to give up everything.
He tested a woman once, a non-Jew. She asked to be taught. He said, why should I give to dogs (what belongs to the Jews). She answered, yes, but even dogs get to eat scraps off the Master's table. Jesus was impressed. I like this passage I magnified from stardust pilgrim's article. What the rich young ruler should do is open a business and give employment to those who have no jobs so they could feed their families. Henry Sy of SM Philippines, Lucio Tan of Philippine Air Lines, Michelle Lhullier, owner of pawnshops, resorts. These people are very rich yet I don't envy or get jealous of them because of who they are. Simply because they create businesses and employ hundreds of thousands of people so these employees could sustain their families. What I abhor are the very rich who don't use their money to create jobs, employ people. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 13, 2024 22:03:24 GMT -5
So we all have the capacity to be ~more than we now are~. Seems you are looking for (s)elf-actualization. There is no such thing. The only thing we truly have the capacity for is to be transparent...to Self. In that transparency lies the possibility for unique gifts, talents, and abilities to flow nthrough your character...naturally and without effort. The character of Jesus was fully transparent " Where you see me, you see the Father" That is why he could heal and perform miracles and such. He was showing that if you too become transparent to the Father, to Self, you could do mighty works as well. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 22:33:57 GMT -5
In some nondual philosophies, the realization of oneness with Brahman can be seen as a merging of the individual self into the impersonal Absolute. In this context, "merging" can be understood as the dissolution of the illusion of separation between the individual self and the universal self—when one realizes their true identity as Brahman, the distinction disappears. Thus, it’s not a literal merging but rather a realization of non-separation. In short, self-realized nondualists consider themselves Brahman. I was about to post that this reeks of AI generation. But it looks like other users already beat me to it. Once the AI gets a little better at hiding its tracks, there will be no recourse other than to move to face-to-face communication, and maybe that's a good thing. My prediction is that when everyone and everything everywhere will be digital, analog will be the new luxury. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 22:35:29 GMT -5
The quality of the data isn't the point. It's about quality of interaction. If we rely on chatgpt in our communication then we are interacting on the data level, i.e. dehumanizing our communication, and also dehumanizing ourselves and others. Since most people mostly live in their heads anyway (i.e. intellect driven aka data level of experience), they probably won't notice. But as with social media, it will leave them with a feeling of emptiness that they can't quite explain. If I talk with a human, it's for their authenticity, inspiration, desire. I'm looking for their unique truth/truthfulness. Even the biggest human liar, or the most 'unconscious' humans, still have the qualities I'm looking for. If I was to talk with AI, then it would be for acquisition purposes. It might have utilitarian value, but as Robin Williams said in Dead Poets Society....''"We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is full of passion'' We don't come to the forum to 'acquire'. One thing that was/is undeniably true about Enigma/Phil.....he had that passion. Well said. Totally agree. Dead Poets Society is one of the greatest movies ever made. Some deep existential truths there. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 22:38:32 GMT -5
... The question is, why does Melvin have to rely on AI? If most of his recent posts are AI-generated, why should anyone keep talking to Melvin and not chatgpt instead? I noticed this too, and I think that on one hand Mervin likes more the AI's English than his own, and on the other hand he seems to be the "blind" follower type (no insult intended here), and he put his trust in AI, as he put his trust in the medical establishment, in a religious dogma, ... I believe that everything that attracts my attention, even everything that I experience, has something meaningful that can be interpreted down to deeper and deeper levels, which results in knowledge and guidance for me. Sometimes I decide to share my interpretations, with no intention to argue their merits, as such interpretations are purely subjective. I prefer reading and interpreting Mervin's posts than AI's because they are likely to give me less distorted hints from my inner source if knowledge and guidance. The "unpolished" Mervin is an aspects of a personality, while the AI is just a very schematic personality fragment, so I can get more undistorted hints through interpreting Mervin's posts Gopal, for example, also uses AI to improve his English, when he has an important point to get across and can't express it very well given his current level of English. But with Melvin it is somewhat different. As you seem to be alluding to, there's a certain intellectual laziness that you won't find with Gopal. That's why Gopal is more authentic than Melvin and why I will be more inclined to talk to Gopal (even if he uses AI) than with Melvin. In a sense, the AI is a fragment of its creator(s). As such, it is always second hand. Great for data acquisition as Andrew mentioned, but disastrous to human relationships (similar to social media). It's fake to the core, by definition. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 22:56:55 GMT -5
. In the example above it is still ZD’s thoughts and points that are being polished and clarified by the AI, much like an editor might do. I don’t have a problem with using it in this manner. But that’s me. The word-level communication is quite distortive, with a very low rate of information; image-level is more effective, and direct-level should be distortion less and instantaneous. Same with word-thinking. So, reformulating someone's posts will always further the distortion of the original meaning for me. I am not interested as much in the original meaning intended by the author, but in the meaning imbedded in it, that is originated by my inner source of knowledge and guidance, and that is intended only for me. For business communication AI is actually great. What AI is also really good at is philosophical discussions, it allows you to test your theories.
I had a pretty wild discussion just recently with chatgpt. After a bit of back and forth, which reminded me a bit of the old mega thread discussions (but minus the ad hominems, hehe), I realized that the AI is a bit like an instrument. If you don't know how to play it, it will sound awful and you will dismiss it as useless. But if you know how to play it well, it will sound amazing and you will like it a lot and see its value.
When interacting with AI in a discussion, you have to be very precise with your language and don't let the AI throw you off your game with unrelated text walls. The AI is not above strawman discussions either, so you have to be alert and stand your ground and also should point out to the AI where the AI is arguing a bit too sloppy. I had this happening several times and when I pointed out that the AI was arguing disingenuously, the AI kinda apologized and change tune immediately. So before you interact with AI (as with humans too, actually), be very clear about your intent and the kind of results you are looking for. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 23:00:09 GMT -5
*holds up one index finger in silence* Do you understand? If not, it might be worth contemplating what generated the question, "Do you consider yourself Brahman?" or, similarly, it might be worth contemplating "Who am I beyond name and form?" After going over and over Nisa's I AM quotes trying to interpret what they were all about, suddenly it occurred to me this question, " What if I place after I AM the word Krishna? " I said to myself, " Yeah, I get it. Krishna's name is inconceivable, transcendental. The name is beyond words. In fact, Krishna is everything. So, prior to my being born, I AM Krishna. " It says, in John 1:1, " In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God. " So, prior to arising, manifestation of the world, there was Krishna, the Word. Which branched into other words, Brahman, the Ultimate Reality, the Void, the Source, etc. My reasoning is that since everything is Krishna, I say I AM Krishna. Everyone is Krishna. That's also saying I AM Brahman. That's how I understood Nisa's 229 I AM quotes. A self- realized soul knows he is Krishna, he is Brahman. That's one of the basis for chanting, " Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. " Not letting the word KRSNA dwell in my flesh and become the anagam KANSR. That only works in English but not in other languages. So obviously, this is nonsense. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 13, 2024 23:08:16 GMT -5
FWIW, there is no "merging" with the Absolute because there are not two of anything, and it takes two to "merge." The realization is that what one IS is already the Absolute, but this does not mean what most people imagine. It doesn't mean special powers or anything like that. It means that one's ordinary everyday life is how the Absolute manifests. It's like relaxing into a felt sense of "flow" without the need to reflect upon it. There is an error I can't get anyone here to see. I have never found any teacher that surpassed Jesus. About age 14 I began to see errors and discrepancies between what the church taught and what Jesus taught. He said a student can be like his teacher, but cannot supersede his teacher (basically speaking of himself). He said everything you see me do, you can do also, and even greater things. That blows the church out of the water, I saw something had gone wrong in the church. In the Bible you find the principle of the remnant. The remnant, about 10%, get it. They usually get kicked out of the church. In the old days they got burned at the stake, or confined to house arrest. So we all have the capacity to be ~more than we now are~. You find this everywhere. Some Zen teachers/Masters confidently demonstrated to students, or new students, na, you haven't...you're not done. You find it in Taoism, Sufism, in Kabbalah. When Jesus met certain people, maybe everyone, he didn't just see who they were, he saw ~them~, who they would become. He met Simon, and said, no, you're not Simon, I'm going to call you Peter. He didn't pick the disciples at random, he picked ~them~. And he tested people of the borderline. The rich young ruler really thought he wanted to follow Jesus. He asked Jesus, what must I do? Jesus said, keep the commandments. The guy said, I already do that. So Jesus gave him the next step. And Jesus said, if you want to follow me, you have to give up everything. He tested a woman once, a non-Jew. She asked to be taught. He said, why should I give to dogs (what belongs to the Jews). She answered, yes, but even dogs get to eat scraps off the Master's table. Jesus was impressed. The error I see in your line of argument is that you are comparing a mythical figure or a story (aka figment of your imagination) to your perception and beliefs about others or another story (aka another figment of your imagination). IOW, it's all just happening in your head - the perceived problem, the proposed solution and the imagined result. None of that is actual or real. |
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