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Post by lolly on Aug 8, 2024 19:43:50 GMT -5
The "Who am I?" question has a definite answer that is mind-blowing. The answer does not come from the intellect because the intellect is incapable of grasping the living truth. Something much deeper than the intellect must resolve the koan. We can call that deeper something "the intelligence underlying all of Reality." Buddhists call that something "Big Mind" to distinguish it from the small mind we call "the intellect." The reason that RM suggested that people pursue that question is that it can lead to a direct apprehension of what he called "the Self," which is infinite and incomprehensible. Only the Self can know the Self, so that's why Angelus Selecius (sp?), the Christian mystic, wrote, "God can't come to visit you unless you aren't there." IOW, only THIS can know THIS when THIS is in an undivided state. To attain such an undivided state, one must, in the words of another Christian mystic, Jacob Bohm, "Fall into that where no creature dwelleth." What's being pointed to is beyond the mind, so no amount of thinking will help one discover what Boehm and other similar sages are pointing to. My definition of "answer" is a bit different than yours. It pertains to things that can be explained. If it can't be explained and is beyond comprehension then it's an unprovable truth not based on logic. I don't call that an answer because answers are offered in explanation: Oneness, God, Being and all fall short. Why I say it has no answer. We're on the same page, we disagree on the meaning of the word " answer." There's nuances to knowledge like direct perception or insight or realisation that are like 'lightbulb moments', or wisdom, which defy conventional logic. It's like awareness is self evident, but no one knows what it is nor there is there sensible representation to portray it. |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 9, 2024 2:32:17 GMT -5
My definition of "answer" is a bit different than yours. It pertains to things that can be explained. If it can't be explained and is beyond comprehension then it's an unprovable truth not based on logic. I don't call that an answer because answers are offered in explanation: Oneness, God, Being and all fall short. Why I say it has no answer. We're on the same page, we disagree on the meaning of the word " answer." There's nuances to knowledge like direct perception or insight or realisation that are like 'lightbulb moments', or wisdom, which defy conventional logic. It's like awareness is self evident, but no one knows what it is nor there is there sensible representation to portray it. Exactly. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 9, 2024 6:44:43 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_that_I_know_nothing- ... in the Apology, Plato relates that Socrates accounts for his seeming wiser than any other person because he does not imagine that he knows what he does not know.
... ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰδέναι.
... I seem, then, in just this little thing to be wiser than this man at any rate, that what I do not know I do not think I know either. [Henry Cary literal translation of 1897]
- ... there is a passage in Plato's Apology, where Socrates says that after discussing with someone he started thinking that:
τούτου μὲν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐγὼ σοφώτερός εἰμι· κινδυνεύει μὲν γὰρ ἡμῶν οὐδέτερος οὐδὲν καλὸν κἀγαθὸν εἰδέναι, ἀλλ᾽ οὗτος μὲν οἴεταί τι εἰδέναι οὐκ εἰδώς, ἐγὼ δέ, ὥσπερ οὖν οὐκ οἶδα, οὐδὲ οἴομαι· ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰδέναι.
I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.
Yes, last sentence, I like the translation: If I am wise, it's because I know that I know nothing. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 9, 2024 6:58:16 GMT -5
Seth (#308, TES7): - A disciplined but intuitive ego then becomes a necessity in order that such new experience may be brought under useful control, in your terms. The ego becomes more necessary you see, not less, for it must learn to synthesize the gained experience in recognizable terms within your system. Otherwise if the ego is pushed aside it will rise up in arms and in opposition, and can be highly dangerous.
It goes without saying that in our methods the ego is changed rather completely but gradually in many cases, and only through its own willingness to do so. It recognizes its identity as a part of the inner self. Therefore basically it has no need to fight the inner self, since it knows its survival is dependent upon this inner framework.
The ego to some large extent, you see, has extended its functions and performance. Since our sessions began, for example, it has expanded in both of your cases. It has expanded not because it has grown more egotistic but because it has accepted as a part of itself, intuitional realizations and inner psychic responsibilities in a way that it did not consider before.
Psychic Illumination
In other words, portions of the inner self have joined the strictly egotistical functions. The ego in such cases is so attuned that it becomes almost something else. We are coming here toward a definition of illumination in psychic terms. The ego is not banished. It joins with portions of the inner self previously unconscious, and illuminates the whole personality. It is no longer primarily physically oriented. Therefore it is no longer an ego in the terms usually meant.
Again, this is an important point. The ego has accepted the goals of the inner self. Its identity has already changed, so that its main concern is no longer primarily with physical manipulation, but with inner growth and development.
This does not mean that it ignores its earlier functions. In true expansion of consciousness then, you become more and more aware, more conscious of inner realities that were previously never realized on a conscious level. Since the ego is presently your main vehicle of consciousness, it will not be obliterated. It will indeed be resurrected. It simply changes not only its form, but its inner core, accepting as a part of itself realities which it previously ignored out of fear, ignorance and insecurity.
It becomes more and more a portion of the supraconsciousness. Its new function is to help direct the overall personality so that inner abilities and illuminations can also reach physical reality.
The material in tonight’s session is highly relevant, and we shall continue it.
The ego has completely changed its structure. It has changed its electromagnetic identity in your cases, since our sessions. It has learned, to some extent, to assimilate your inner experiences. In the long run this is the most effective method. And in the long run no consciousness expansion can occur unless the ego structure is so altered.
There are other methods that also alter it, but our methods are the most advantageous from many standpoints.
Very good. This is the most pertinent. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 9, 2024 7:18:44 GMT -5
My definition of "answer" is a bit different than yours. It pertains to things that can be explained. If it can't be explained and is beyond comprehension then it's an unprovable truth not based on logic. I don't call that an answer because answers are offered in explanation: Oneness, God, Being and all fall short. Why I say it has no answer. We're on the same page, we disagree on the meaning of the word " answer." There's nuances to knowledge like direct perception or insight or realisation that are like 'lightbulb moments', or wisdom, which defy conventional logic. It's like awareness is self evident, but no one knows what it is nor there is there sensible representation to portray it. Believe it or not, inavalan via Seth has explained all this in his quote, above. It is all understandable. ~We~ can get the "Seth level" and the "Seth 2 level" down into the brain. That's why we're here, 'That the Two ('higher' and 'lower') shall become One', 'that they may become One even as we are One (reversing the fall). Jesus completely submitted to the 'Father', not many can say while being nailed to a cross, 'Father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing'. The message that got lost, at least Peter, James and John understood, Thomas, Mary, Judas even, Jesus came to show us the way, not to do it all for us. Gopal, you have to 'read between the lines', in scripture. The truth is not in the words. On the Mount of transfiguration, it wasn't Jesus who changed, it was Peter, James and John (they saw what was already there). Did you see Field of Dreams? When the skeptic friend said, Where did all these baseball players come from? It's kind of like that. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 10, 2024 8:50:30 GMT -5
There's nuances to knowledge like direct perception or insight or realisation that are like 'lightbulb moments', or wisdom, which defy conventional logic. It's like awareness is self evident, but no one knows what it is nor there is there sensible representation to portray it. Believe it or not, inavalan via Seth has explained all this in his quote, above. It is all understandable. ~We~ can get the "Seth level" and the "Seth 2 level" down into the brain. That's why we're here, 'That the Two ('higher' and 'lower') shall become One', 'that they may become One even as we are One (reversing the fall). Jesus completely submitted to the 'Father', not many can say while being nailed to a cross, 'Father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing'. The message that got lost, at least Peter, James and John understood, Thomas, Mary, Judas even, Jesus came to show us the way, not to do it all for us. Gopal, you have to 'read between the lines', in scripture. The truth is not in the words. On the Mount of transfiguration, it wasn't Jesus who changed, it was Peter, James and John (they saw what was already there). Did you see Field of Dreams? When the skeptic friend said, Where did all these baseball players come from? It's kind of like that. I didn’t gain my understanding of the universe and its workings from the Bible. Instead, I came to know the operating nature of universe through my realization which I have accidently met with. For example, life is like a rollercoaster; conscious efforts alone don’t yield results, but clarity does. These insights are from my own realizations over time. I was interested in the Bible, so I read it carefully to understand its message. The Bible speaks about a Personal God, and Jesus embodies this Personal God. |
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Post by lolly on Aug 11, 2024 0:38:22 GMT -5
There's nuances to knowledge like direct perception or insight or realisation that are like 'lightbulb moments', or wisdom, which defy conventional logic. It's like awareness is self evident, but no one knows what it is nor there is there sensible representation to portray it. Believe it or not, inavalan via Seth has explained all this in his quote, above. It is all understandable. ~We~ can get the "Seth level" and the "Seth 2 level" down into the brain. That's why we're here, 'That the Two ('higher' and 'lower') shall become One', 'that they may become One even as we are One (reversing the fall). Jesus completely submitted to the 'Father', not many can say while being nailed to a cross, 'Father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing'. The message that got lost, at least Peter, James and John understood, Thomas, Mary, Judas even, Jesus came to show us the way, not to do it all for us. Gopal, you have to 'read between the lines', in scripture. The truth is not in the words. On the Mount of transfiguration, it wasn't Jesus who changed, it was Peter, James and John (they saw what was already there). Did you see Field of Dreams? When the skeptic friend said, Where did all these baseball players come from? It's kind of like that. It's not like anyone knows 'what I am', but you can be certain of 'I am this' while having no idea 'what this is'. It also comes with a sense of 'of course', as if it's a given, albeit sans any explanation. It defies the intellect, so we speak subjectively of love's great outpouring and other subjective references that convey the idea intellectually, but there is big difference between hearing about the ocean and jumping into the waves. It's what happened to Mary when she left her room. |
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Post by zazeniac on Aug 14, 2024 8:29:42 GMT -5
There's this dweeb in my neighborhood. He owns a pit bull which he can't control. It has injured several dogs in the neighborhood. Folks haven't turned him in because he's nice and pays for the vet bills. My dogs have come close to being attacked by his dog. He or his wife can't hold the beast on the leash.
The dude is an HOA board member. Half the things he says are inane, bs.
Just discovered he's a Zen priest. WTF! Life throws you all these funky curve balls. My head will explode.
Just spent two weeks with a one year old. Anyone says how enlightened they are is certifiably nuts. Got all these stupid kiddie songs playing in my head. "Baby shark! Doodoo-di-doo."
So much for practice.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2024 10:36:48 GMT -5
There's this dweeb in my neighborhood. He owns a pit bull which he can't control. It has injured several dogs in the neighborhood. Folks haven't turned him in because he's nice and pays for the vet bills. My dogs have come close to being attacked by his dog. He or his wife can't hold the beast on the leash. The dude is an HOA board member. Half the things he says are inane, bs. Just discovered he's a Zen priest. WTF! Life throws you all these funky curve balls. My head will explode. Just spent two weeks with a one year old. Anyone says how enlightened they are is certifiably nuts. Got all these stupid kiddie songs playing in my head. "Baby shark! Doodoo-di-doo." So much for practice. We all have blind spots. Zen priest probably feels entitled to dog-hurt people. Some day he will say, I didn't mean to, like a two year old. |
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Post by inavalan on Aug 14, 2024 17:23:44 GMT -5
There's this dweeb in my neighborhood. He owns a pit bull which he can't control. It has injured several dogs in the neighborhood. Folks haven't turned him in because he's nice and pays for the vet bills. My dogs have come close to being attacked by his dog. He or his wife can't hold the beast on the leash. The dude is an HOA board member. Half the things he says are inane, bs. Just discovered he's a Zen priest. WTF! Life throws you all these funky curve balls. My head will explode. Just spent two weeks with a one year old. Anyone says how enlightened they are is certifiably nuts. Got all these stupid kiddie songs playing in my head. "Baby shark! Doodoo-di-doo." So much for practice. We all have blind spots. Zen priest probably feels entitled to dog-hurt people. Some day he will say, I didn't mean to, like a two year old. The zen-priest attempts to trigger satori in his neighbors, inflicting pain through biting, instead of hitting or cutting. EDIT: Likely, the one-year-old attempts the same thing. Alas ... unsuccessfully, although both persistently. "The presence of great emotional or physical stress evokes a state which is indistinguishable from that of hypnosis. The unconscious response to injury is similar to the effect of a strongly given posthypnotic suggestion. Unlike ordinary learning by repetition, this memory is completed (learned) on initial impact" ( p. 239). |
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Post by andrew on Aug 14, 2024 21:45:49 GMT -5
There's this dweeb in my neighborhood. He owns a pit bull which he can't control. It has injured several dogs in the neighborhood. Folks haven't turned him in because he's nice and pays for the vet bills. My dogs have come close to being attacked by his dog. He or his wife can't hold the beast on the leash. The dude is an HOA board member. Half the things he says are inane, bs. J ust discovered he's a Zen priest. WTF! Life throws you all these funky curve balls. My head will explode. Just spent two weeks with a one year old. Anyone says how enlightened they are is certifiably nuts. Got all these stupid kiddie songs playing in my head. "Baby shark! Doodoo-di-doo." So much for practice.  ah but I bet he's paying all those vet bills with a pristinely still mind! Life/spirituality is a strange business eh. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2024 22:29:16 GMT -5
We all have blind spots. Zen priest probably feels entitled to dog-hurt people. Some day he will say, I didn't mean to, like a two year old. The zen-priest attempts to trigger satori in his neighbors, inflicting pain through biting, instead of hitting or cutting. EDIT: Likely, the one-year-old attempts the same thing. Alas ... unsuccessfully, although both persistently. "The presence of great emotional or physical stress evokes a state which is indistinguishable from that of hypnosis. The unconscious response to injury is similar to the effect of a strongly given posthypnotic suggestion. Unlike ordinary learning by repetition, this memory is completed (learned) on initial impact" ( p. 239). This is absolutely accurate, the last part (the Zen Priest is not going to trying to wake anybody up who isn't under him, but I take that, the other, for humor). A shock will fix the moment in memory, it has to do with chemicals flooding the system, like adrenalin. This is like memories fixed on learning about 9-11, or the assassination of JFK (I was in 6th grade). |
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Post by inavalan on Aug 15, 2024 2:09:01 GMT -5
The zen-priest attempts to trigger satori in his neighbors, inflicting pain through biting, instead of hitting or cutting. EDIT: Likely, the one-year-old attempts the same thing. Alas ... unsuccessfully, although both persistently. "The presence of great emotional or physical stress evokes a state which is indistinguishable from that of hypnosis. The unconscious response to injury is similar to the effect of a strongly given posthypnotic suggestion. Unlike ordinary learning by repetition, this memory is completed (learned) on initial impact" ( p. 239). This is absolutely accurate, the last part (the Zen Priest is not going to trying to wake anybody up who isn't under him, but I take that, the other, for humor). A shock will fix the moment in memory, it has to do with chemicals flooding the system, like adrenalin. This is like memories fixed on learning about 9-11, or the assassination of JFK (I was in 6th grade). Everything that happens to you directly, or that you learn about happening to others, is to be interpreted intuitively by you as deeply as you can, resulting in a lesson and guidance. My comment was formulated humorously, but I also gave an example of constructive interpretation common to both the zen neighbor and the toddler situations. It doesn't matter why the neighbor and the toddler act as they do, it only matters what you can interpret and learn from that. It doesn't matter if you are the unhappy object, or if you just read about that. You attracted into your reality that information, you perceived it, so you should find out why, and do something constructive about it. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 15, 2024 6:13:09 GMT -5
This is absolutely accurate, the last part (the Zen Priest is not going to trying to wake anybody up who isn't under him, but I take that, the other, for humor). A shock will fix the moment in memory, it has to do with chemicals flooding the system, like adrenalin. This is like memories fixed on learning about 9-11, or the assassination of JFK (I was in 6th grade). Everything that happens to you directly, or that you learn about happening to others, is to be interpreted intuitively by you as deeply as you can, resulting in a lesson and guidance. My comment was formulated humorously, but I also gave an example of constructive interpretation common to both the zen neighbor and the toddler situations. It doesn't matter why the neighbor and the toddler act as they do, it only matters what you can interpret and learn from that. It doesn't matter if you are the unhappy object, or if you just read about that. You attracted into your reality that information, you perceived it, so you should find out why, and do something constructive about it. Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar. Sigmund Freud. But yes, I agree in general. "You don't things as they are, you see them you are". The Talmud, and Anais Nin. The world is a hall of mirrors. quodid.com/quotes/5983/talmud/you-dont-see-things-as-they-are-you You don't see things as they are. You see things as you are. —Talmud |
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Post by zazeniac on Aug 15, 2024 8:47:06 GMT -5
There's this dweeb in my neighborhood. He owns a pit bull which he can't control. It has injured several dogs in the neighborhood. Folks haven't turned him in because he's nice and pays for the vet bills. My dogs have come close to being attacked by his dog. He or his wife can't hold the beast on the leash. The dude is an HOA board member. Half the things he says are inane, bs. Just discovered he's a Zen priest. WTF! Life throws you all these funky curve balls. My head will explode. Just spent two weeks with a one year old. Anyone says how enlightened they are is certifiably nuts. Got all these stupid kiddie songs playing in my head. "Baby shark! Doodoo-di-doo." So much for practice. We all have blind spots. Zen priest probably feels entitled to dog-hurt people. Some day he will say, I didn't mean to, like a two year old. Just an air head. Life teaching me how fickle preferences and judgments can be. There were a lot of weird cats in the Zendo. I had a good chuckle when I saw him listed as one if the teachers in a local Zen center. He must be a Rinzai dude, crazy folk. 😁 |
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ah but I bet he's paying all those vet bills with a pristinely still mind!