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Post by zazeniac on Aug 18, 2024 9:10:56 GMT -5
I found his take on non-meditation quite interesting.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 18, 2024 10:37:04 GMT -5
I found his take on non-meditation quite interesting. This is most excellent. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 19, 2024 8:03:14 GMT -5
Leonard Cohen: "Meditation is not what you think. You sit in absolute silence and your mind starts going over all your movies. During that process, you become so familiar with the scripts you keep in your life that you end up getting sick of them. Then you realize that the person you think you are is nothing but a complicated script you spend most of your energy on.
After a more thorough examination, you discover your personality disgusts you, and that’s because it's not really you. If you feel terrified enough about that personality, you spontaneously allow it to fade away. Then, if you're lucky, you can experience yourself without the distortion of that personality.
There's so much talk about the mechanics of happiness - psychiatry and pills, positive thinking and ideology - but I really think the mechanism is there. All you have to do is get quiet for a moment."
~ Leonard Cohen
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Post by andrew on Aug 19, 2024 10:19:56 GMT -5
Leonard Cohen: "Meditation is not what you think. You sit in absolute silence and your mind starts going over all your movies. During that process, you become so familiar with the scripts you keep in your life that you end up getting sick of them. Then you realize that the person you think you are is nothing but a complicated script you spend most of your energy on. After a more thorough examination, you discover your personality disgusts you, and that’s because it's not really you. If you feel terrified enough about that personality, you spontaneously allow it to fade away. Then, if you're lucky, you can experience yourself without the distortion of that personality. There's so much talk about the mechanics of happiness - psychiatry and pills, positive thinking and ideology - but I really think the mechanism is there. All you have to do is get quiet for a moment." ~ Leonard Cohen There's a harshness to his expression, but still, a truth there that's applicable to me. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 19, 2024 14:15:05 GMT -5
Leonard Cohen: "Meditation is not what you think. You sit in absolute silence and your mind starts going over all your movies. During that process, you become so familiar with the scripts you keep in your life that you end up getting sick of them. Then you realize that the person you think you are is nothing but a complicated script you spend most of your energy on. After a more thorough examination, you discover your personality disgusts you, and that’s because it's not really you. If you feel terrified enough about that personality, you spontaneously allow it to fade away. Then, if you're lucky, you can experience yourself without the distortion of that personality. There's so much talk about the mechanics of happiness - psychiatry and pills, positive thinking and ideology - but I really think the mechanism is there. All you have to do is get quiet for a moment." ~ Leonard Cohen Mind movies? I don't consider that meditation.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 19, 2024 16:12:10 GMT -5
Leonard Cohen: "Meditation is not what you think. You sit in absolute silence and your mind starts going over all your movies. During that process, you become so familiar with the scripts you keep in your life that you end up getting sick of them. Then you realize that the person you think you are is nothing but a complicated script you spend most of your energy on. After a more thorough examination, you discover your personality disgusts you, and that’s because it's not really you. If you feel terrified enough about that personality, you spontaneously allow it to fade away. Then, if you're lucky, you can experience yourself without the distortion of that personality. There's so much talk about the mechanics of happiness - psychiatry and pills, positive thinking and ideology - but I really think the mechanism is there. All you have to do is get quiet for a moment." ~ Leonard Cohen Mind movies? I don't consider that meditation. Do you know who Leonard Cohen is? He's not saying that's meditation. He's saying, when I sit down to meditate, here's what happens. lolly described it very well. Leonard would agree (would have). |
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Post by laughter on Aug 20, 2024 9:31:29 GMT -5
Mind movies? I don't consider that meditation. Do you know who Leonard Cohen is? He's not saying that's meditation. He's saying, when I sit down to meditate, here's what happens. lolly described it very well. Leonard would agree (would have). As for who he is, I listened to a few of his talks that reefs posted, and found them to be quite insightful. As for what he said, the literal quote is: "Meditation is not what you think", and he then describes a process of "becoming familiar with scripts". Becoming conscious of the content of your mind can happen, but I wouldn't call Lenny's version of that meditation. For one thing, not everyone is so repulsed by their own personality. For another, the real insight to be had is see the content for what it is, and what it isn't. I can relate to what he means, quite specifically, from having watched the thinker in the context of Tolle's "as it is, 90% of human thought is negative, repetitive and ineffectual". But, that either results in a sudden insight (and sudden relative mental silence), or it doesn't. Silent mind meditation has various depths to it, and self-psychoanalysis isn't even in the shallow end of the pool, it's dangling your feet over the edge. Not to knock it completely. Some people can benefit from a process like that. But, I wouldn't call that meditation. |
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Practice
Aug 20, 2024 9:54:51 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 20, 2024 9:54:51 GMT -5
Do you know who Leonard Cohen is? He's not saying that's meditation. He's saying, when I sit down to meditate, here's what happens. lolly described it very well. Leonard would agree (would have). As for who he is, I listened to a few of his talks that reefs posted, and found them to be quite insightful. As for what he said, the literal quote is: "Meditation is not what you think", and he then describes a process of "becoming familiar with scripts". Becoming conscious of the content of your mind can happen, but I wouldn't call Lenny's version of that meditation. For one thing, not everyone is so repulsed by their own personality. For another, the real insight to be had is see the content for what it is, and what it isn't. I can relate to what he means, quite specifically, from having watched the thinker in the context of Tolle's "as it is, 90% of human thought is negative, repetitive and ineffectual". But, that either results in a sudden insight (and sudden relative mental silence), or it doesn't. Silent mind meditation has various depths to it, and self-psychoanalysis isn't even in the shallow end of the pool, it's dangling your feet over the edge. Not to knock it completely. Some people can benefit from a process like that. But, I wouldn't call that meditation. You're still not getting it. The meditation part is: 'you sit in silence'. Then he describes what the mind does. He's not saying that's meditation. lolly describes it well. When you realize the mind has started 'doing its own thing', you come back to your focus (whatever that is for you). He's not saying psychoanalysis is meditation. |
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Post by zazeniac on Aug 20, 2024 10:30:51 GMT -5
As for who he is, I listened to a few of his talks that reefs posted, and found them to be quite insightful. As for what he said, the literal quote is: "Meditation is not what you think", and he then describes a process of "becoming familiar with scripts". Becoming conscious of the content of your mind can happen, but I wouldn't call Lenny's version of that meditation. For one thing, not everyone is so repulsed by their own personality. For another, the real insight to be had is see the content for what it is, and what it isn't. I can relate to what he means, quite specifically, from having watched the thinker in the context of Tolle's "as it is, 90% of human thought is negative, repetitive and ineffectual". But, that either results in a sudden insight (and sudden relative mental silence), or it doesn't. Silent mind meditation has various depths to it, and self-psychoanalysis isn't even in the shallow end of the pool, it's dangling your feet over the edge. Not to knock it completely. Some people can benefit from a process like that. But, I wouldn't call that meditation. You're still not getting it. The meditation part is: 'you sit in silence'. Then he describes what the mind does. He's not saying that's meditation. lolly describes it well. When you realize the mind has started 'doing its own thing', you come back to your focus (whatever that is for you). He's not saying psychoanalysis is meditation. I've noticed a big change in Laffy's cognitive ability since March 31, 2021. Some might call it an enhancement. I'm not sure. 😁🖖 |
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Post by laughter on Aug 20, 2024 11:53:19 GMT -5
As for who he is, I listened to a few of his talks that reefs posted, and found them to be quite insightful. As for what he said, the literal quote is: "Meditation is not what you think", and he then describes a process of "becoming familiar with scripts". Becoming conscious of the content of your mind can happen, but I wouldn't call Lenny's version of that meditation. For one thing, not everyone is so repulsed by their own personality. For another, the real insight to be had is see the content for what it is, and what it isn't. I can relate to what he means, quite specifically, from having watched the thinker in the context of Tolle's "as it is, 90% of human thought is negative, repetitive and ineffectual". But, that either results in a sudden insight (and sudden relative mental silence), or it doesn't. Silent mind meditation has various depths to it, and self-psychoanalysis isn't even in the shallow end of the pool, it's dangling your feet over the edge. Not to knock it completely. Some people can benefit from a process like that. But, I wouldn't call that meditation. You're still not getting it. The meditation part is: 'you sit in silence'. Then he describes what the mind does. He's not saying that's meditation. lolly describes it well. When you realize the mind has started 'doing its own thing', you come back to your focus (whatever that is for you). He's not saying psychoanalysis is meditation. Characterizing our differing interpretations of the text as a failure on my part to understand is completely unnecessary, I assure you.  .. as is assuming that everyone's experience of sitting in silence is the same ... |
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Practice
Aug 20, 2024 12:39:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 20, 2024 12:39:40 GMT -5
You're still not getting it. The meditation part is: 'you sit in silence'. Then he describes what the mind does. He's not saying that's meditation. lolly describes it well. When you realize the mind has started 'doing its own thing', you come back to your focus (whatever that is for you). He's not saying psychoanalysis is meditation. Characterizing our differing interpretations of the text as a failure on my part to understand is completely unnecessary, I assure you. .. as is assuming that everyone's experience of sitting in silence is the same ... Cohen is a poet. Poets use words sparingly. You're invited to read between the lines. |
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Post by inavalan on Aug 20, 2024 13:06:01 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Aug 20, 2024 18:44:49 GMT -5
Characterizing our differing interpretations of the text as a failure on my part to understand is completely unnecessary, I assure you. .. as is assuming that everyone's experience of sitting in silence is the same ... Cohen is a poet. Poets use words sparingly. You're invited to read between the lines. Poets sometimes speak in prose, and there was nothing oblique or subtle about that. |
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Post by zazeniac on Aug 21, 2024 11:58:30 GMT -5
Cohen's words about the person resonates. One cannot be satisfied with the falsity. Reminds me of Hedderman's comment:"The party sucks because 'I' keep showing up."
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Post by laughter on Aug 21, 2024 12:18:48 GMT -5
Cohen's words about the person resonates. One cannot be satisfied with the falsity. Reminds me of Hedderman's comment:"The party sucks because 'I' keep showing up." Dunno' man, sounds kinda' Neo-ish ..  |
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.. as is assuming that everyone's experience of sitting in silence is the same ...