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Post by Gopal on Sept 11, 2024 4:03:18 GMT -5
I went back and read the original post. What you describe is true. It's a form of practice. I don't think Gopal is an advocate of meditation or any form of practice. But I could be wrong. It's a practice of everything, and all experience is an opportunity to stay calm. Are you still practicing? Or are you still trying to stay calm? If you say 'yes', then that's the evidence of what I am talking about. |
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Post by Gopal on Sept 11, 2024 4:03:49 GMT -5
Mind is the slave to the truth, it surrenders once it sees the truth and it alters it's action after seeing the truth. Truth comes from clarity. Reaching the clarity is beyond our control. None of our action would yield anything. We may realise the futility of our effort for sure but that effort would not bring us anywhere. If truth comes from clarity and reaching clarity is beyond our control then when does the mind see truth? Mind is informed, Or you WILL KNOW clearly. |
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Post by Gopal on Sept 11, 2024 4:04:21 GMT -5
If truth comes from clarity and reaching clarity is beyond our control then when does the mind see truth? When Gopal talks about reaching clarity, he's talking about those Eureka moments, where everything makes sense in an instant. It's quite clear that those moments are not handled by memory so what does handle them is a scientific anomaly. The truth of the new directions that are born in those moments, are what we call an 'informing of mind'. yes, exactly. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 11, 2024 6:10:18 GMT -5
It's a practice of everything, and all experience is an opportunity to stay calm. Are you still practicing? Or are you still trying to stay calm? If you say 'yes', then that's the evidence of what I am talking about. I'm not doing any formal sits right now, but I start a day by getting a flow and try to stay there no matter what happens. Edging lawns is my go-to. It's good focus and control to get straight lines, accurate, steady with no mistakes. Once in the zone, it's just trust the process and see how it goes. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 11, 2024 6:25:15 GMT -5
You can do something to bring about clarity, and it's simply logical, too. You examine more closely and have more revelations. The funny thing is, to examine with all your attention means you stop doing things and 'just look', so it's a weird sort of thing to do - to do a not do. Otherwise you can just churn along unconsciously and have big ideas, but crazy keeps doing the same and expecting other outcomes. You have to be conscientious and see things for what they are. The big ideas are but thoughts in passing, but they tend to become ideas you fixate on. Just look at how it comes out of empty space somehow, makes a bit of noise, and then goes away. That's the nature of it. It's like moonlight on the water - shimmering on a pond.
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Post by Gopal on Sept 11, 2024 6:40:47 GMT -5
Are you still practicing? Or are you still trying to stay calm? If you say 'yes', then that's the evidence of what I am talking about. I'm not doing any formal sits right now, but I start a day by getting a flow and try to stay there no matter what happens. Edging lawns is my go-to. It's good focus and control to get straight lines, accurate, steady with no mistakes. Once in the zone, it's just trust the process and see how it goes. That's what I am saying. You are on the process now. Watch out your process will never come to an end. |
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Post by tenka on Sept 11, 2024 6:44:54 GMT -5
So there is no brother / sister relationship? There's no association had between your parents and your sister, you and your parents? I mean when push comes to shove you say that you help your sister out with gardening stuff. (kudda done with your help today myself)  . Back breaking shovelling and fence work, uprooting trees etc. The way I see identification working is quite straightforward really, you talk about your sister because you identify with what that means to you. I think that for some, they think that if they identify as being a mum or a dad or a brother or sister they are kinda trapped in some kind of identity fraud lol, but there is nothing wrong with identifying oneself as this and that. It doesn't mean that its the be all and end all of what one believes of oneself to be. It's self identifying. It's self recognition. To be totally unidentified in my eyes would mean there is no recognition of someone being one's sister. This isn't the case is it in your relationship. Change is a constant as everyone knows, identity therefore can change. It isn't a problem. She's my sister because of ancestry, and she can be difficult, but I'm stuck with her because the past is what it is and this is how it eventuated. I don't have to identify as her brother because it's a matter of biological fact. There was a long, long line of ancestors that led to this, and the facts as they are now are the outcomes of the past.
The point is, not identifying isn't different to identifying. I think people are looking for everything to be different, but it isn't. It's the way it is - only me, my, mine, I is more imaginary than real.
This is not the same as an ego identity like 'I'm a man' or something. It's a fact of nature such as I am male. It's not optional. It's just how nature is. It's in the blood.
Well from my perspective what is a biological fact is another identification had and it also isn't a fact in non dual circles based upon there is no one here to begin with hey? You recently asked me about what constitutes someone being here (roughly translated) but you state there is a biological fact relating to someone who is identified as your sister present. Is that not an indication that someone is present rather than not? I asked the question what would constitute in your eyes someone not being here. I think that would help anyone answer the question of what constitutes a person being here. Like said a trillion times about foundations, for they are needed in place for one to believe in this or that and make factual statements about anything. Maybe we see differently in regards to what constitutes an identification had. I think it's safe enough to say that peeps can't really identify what they actually are fundamentally because it's beyond words so to speak but it doesn't stop one entertaining a string of secondary identifications had as we experience this world reality. So as I see identity playing out and being in effect, a so called non identified peep can't associate anything with anything. Butt they do. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 11, 2024 8:44:32 GMT -5
I'm not doing any formal sits right now, but I start a day by getting a flow and try to stay there no matter what happens. Edging lawns is my go-to. It's good focus and control to get straight lines, accurate, steady with no mistakes. Once in the zone, it's just trust the process and see how it goes. That's what I am saying. You are on the process now. Watch out your process will never come to an end. I'm cautious of speaking for him, but if his process (or anyone's) works well for him, why would it be a problem if it doesn't come to an end? |
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Post by andrew on Sept 11, 2024 8:47:22 GMT -5
She's my sister because of ancestry, and she can be difficult, but I'm stuck with her because the past is what it is and this is how it eventuated. I don't have to identify as her brother because it's a matter of biological fact. There was a long, long line of ancestors that led to this, and the facts as they are now are the outcomes of the past. The point is, not identifying isn't different to identifying. I think people are looking for everything to be different, but it isn't. It's the way it is - only me, my, mine, I is more imaginary than real. This is not the same as an ego identity like 'I'm a man' or something. It's a fact of nature such as I am male. It's not optional. It's just how nature is. It's in the blood.
Well from my perspective what is a biological fact is another identification had and it also isn't a fact in non dual circles based upon there is no one here to begin with hey? You recently asked me about what constitutes someone being here (roughly translated) but you state there is a biological fact relating to someone who is identified as your sister present. Is that not an indication that someone is present rather than not? I asked the question what would constitute in your eyes someone not being here. I think that would help anyone answer the question of what constitutes a person being here. Like said a trillion times about foundations, for they are needed in place for one to believe in this or that and make factual statements about anything. Maybe we see differently in regards to what constitutes an identification had. I think it's safe enough to say that peeps can't really identify what they actually are fundamentally because it's beyond words so to speak but it doesn't stop one entertaining a string of secondary identifications had as we experience this world reality. So as I see identity playing out and being in effect, a so called non identified peep can't associate anything with anything. Butt they do. Middle of the week? You enjoying a holiday here on ST (hard hat n' all)? Am I correct that even dogs and cats would associate in the way you describe i.e it's not just a human intellect thing? ...it's how relationships work in general. |
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 11, 2024 9:08:35 GMT -5
I went back and read the original post. What you describe is true. It's a form of practice. I don't think Gopal is an advocate of meditation or any form of practice. But I could be wrong. It's a practice of everything, and all experience is an opportunity to stay calm. It can be an opportunity. Depends on your openness to that notion. I don't think Gopal is there. He has clarity. Those who see it as an opportunity don't, otherwise it would no longer be that, an opportunity, a chance for something "better." Gopal maintains that there's nothing that can be done for clarity. I ask if that is so then why books, satsangs, videos or even posting about it on this site. And I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying his actions and the actions of others like him belie what they say. To me practice is Perfection and Perfection is practice. That's all there is. All the knowledge required. I don't know if enlightenment is causal or acausal nor does that knowledge seem important. If I'm looking for my glasses and they were always on my head, did the looking cause me to find them? Interesting question, but who cares? I can see now. |
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Post by melvin on Sept 11, 2024 9:56:29 GMT -5
It's a practice of everything, and all experience is an opportunity to stay calm. It can be an opportunity. Depends on your openness to that notion. I don't think Gopal is there. He has clarity. Those who see it as an opportunity don't, otherwise it would no longer be that, an opportunity, a chance for something "better." Gopal maintains that there's nothing that can be done for clarity. I ask if that is so then why books, satsangs, videos or even posting about it on this site. And I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying his actions and the actions of others like him belie what they say. To me practice is Perfection and Perfection is practice. That's all there is. All the knowledge required. I don't know if enlightenment is causal or acausal nor does that knowledge seem important. If I'm looking for my glasses and they were always on my head, did the looking cause me to find them? Interesting question, but who cares? I can see now. Yeah, just like the practice in medicine. The more time you allot to treat patients they in and day out, 20 days a month for many years, the treating becomes automatic. It's something to do with focus. The more focus you are in your practice, the more you become adept at it. This practice, as long as your still healthy, never stops. You are addicted to it. |
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roscod
Junior Member
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Post by roscod on Sept 11, 2024 10:07:19 GMT -5
When Gopal talks about reaching clarity, he's talking about those Eureka moments, where everything makes sense in an instant. It's quite clear that those moments are not handled by memory so what does handle them is a scientific anomaly. The truth of the new directions that are born in those moments, are what we call an 'informing of mind'. yes, exactly. That sounds very much like what neuro-science and psychology is now calling a-ha moments. There is a wealth of literature on it. I'm not sure if there is a difference. |
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Post by melvin on Sept 11, 2024 10:37:08 GMT -5
That sounds very much like what neuro-science and psychology is now calling a-ha moments. There is a wealth of literature on it. I'm not sure if there is a difference. This so-called clarity, a-ha or eureka moments is different from my definition. Its a firm, 100% that you truly hit the target, a bullseye. Everything fallen into place. The result is you can't help laughing all about it. The whole thing is a comedy. How can people who are serious into self-realization have missed it. |
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Post by tenka on Sept 11, 2024 13:55:20 GMT -5
Well from my perspective what is a biological fact is another identification had and it also isn't a fact in non dual circles based upon there is no one here to begin with hey? You recently asked me about what constitutes someone being here (roughly translated) but you state there is a biological fact relating to someone who is identified as your sister present. Is that not an indication that someone is present rather than not? I asked the question what would constitute in your eyes someone not being here. I think that would help anyone answer the question of what constitutes a person being here. Like said a trillion times about foundations, for they are needed in place for one to believe in this or that and make factual statements about anything. Maybe we see differently in regards to what constitutes an identification had. I think it's safe enough to say that peeps can't really identify what they actually are fundamentally because it's beyond words so to speak but it doesn't stop one entertaining a string of secondary identifications had as we experience this world reality. So as I see identity playing out and being in effect, a so called non identified peep can't associate anything with anything. Butt they do. Middle of the week? You enjoying a holiday here on ST (hard hat n' all)? Am I correct that even dogs and cats would associate in the way you describe i.e it's not just a human intellect thing? ...it's how relationships work in general. Having a week off, so my world's upside down so posting midweek is how it is temporarily lol. & Yer I think animals have their own way of identifying family members or same species with those that are not. I mean a lioness won't try and protect her cubs from a butterfly, its because it has identified there is no risk. I lioness won't choose a hyena cub over it's own either. The list is endless, although speaking about what you fundamentally are as an identity won't compute with the laughing hyena. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 11, 2024 16:18:04 GMT -5
She's my sister because of ancestry, and she can be difficult, but I'm stuck with her because the past is what it is and this is how it eventuated. I don't have to identify as her brother because it's a matter of biological fact. There was a long, long line of ancestors that led to this, and the facts as they are now are the outcomes of the past.
The point is, not identifying isn't different to identifying. I think people are looking for everything to be different, but it isn't. It's the way it is - only me, my, mine, I is more imaginary than real.
This is not the same as an ego identity like 'I'm a man' or something. It's a fact of nature such as I am male. It's not optional. It's just how nature is. It's in the blood.
Well from my perspective what is a biological fact is another identification had and it also isn't a fact in non dual circles based upon there is no one here to begin with hey? You recently asked me about what constitutes someone being here (roughly translated) but you state there is a biological fact relating to someone who is identified as your sister present. Is that not an indication that someone is present rather than not? I asked the question what would constitute in your eyes someone not being here. I think that would help anyone answer the question of what constitutes a person being here. Like said a trillion times about foundations, for they are needed in place for one to believe in this or that and make factual statements about anything. Maybe we see differently in regards to what constitutes an identification had. I think it's safe enough to say that peeps can't really identify what they actually are fundamentally because it's beyond words so to speak but it doesn't stop one entertaining a string of secondary identifications had as we experience this world reality. So as I see identity playing out and being in effect, a so called non identified peep can't associate anything with anything. Butt they do. It is a fact we have the same parents and grandparents etc. I don't see the identity issue. I could say this body is related to that body by birth. I experience via this body's senses, and not that body's senses, and we tend to assume that experience implies an experiencer, but I think it's more like consciousness implies awareness. Everyone's awareness is the same in nature but of course different bodies have different experiences and thereby different histories, and thereby, different personalities, so it's not different to how things are. I'm aware and this is my personality, but there's nothing in the middle that it belongs to.
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. Back breaking shovelling and fence work, uprooting trees etc.