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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 11:50:01 GMT -5
Discovering what we are and what's going on ends the search because all of the curtains have been pulled away. Afterwards, one can live an ordinary life detached from ideation. Life becomes extremely simple and direct. Chop wood, carry water, read books, trade stocks, learn another language, have dinner with friends, and do whatever the next thing is that needs to be done. That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. Imagine if you realized that you were not actively involved in the events that were happening in front of you, even with your own actions. What if you were conscious that you were simply watching a movie? Would you try to change the course of events or remain as an idle onlooker? This is the idea being hinted at. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 11:59:57 GMT -5
Some people here are arguing that there are others which I can see and interact with. This is apparently clear to everyone. But when one says that there are no others, he is pointing the greater truth that separation doesn't really exist. Only one is in action.
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2023 12:06:30 GMT -5
That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. Imagine if you realized that you were not actively involved in the events that were happening in front of you, even with your own actions. What if you were conscious that you were simply watching a movie? Would you try to change the course of events or remain as an idle onlooker? This is the idea being hinted at. Exactly. |
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2023 12:07:24 GMT -5
Some people here are arguing that there are others which I can see and interact with. This is apparently clear to everyone. But when one says that there are no others, he is pointing the greater truth that separation doesn't really exist. Only one is in action. Yes. |
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2023 12:18:10 GMT -5
Discovering what we are and what's going on ends the search because all of the curtains have been pulled away. Afterwards, one can live an ordinary life detached from ideation. Life becomes extremely simple and direct. Chop wood, carry water, read books, trade stocks, learn another language, have dinner with friends, and do whatever the next thing is that needs to be done. That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. The knot (sense of selfhood) referred to IS the fundamental illusion. How can a non-existent knot be untied? The problem is that the mind imagines that there is a knot, and if that thought is believed, it will prompt one to search for a way to untie something that doesn't exist. Niz told a seeker that in order to find the truth (see through the illusion of the knot) one must "go beyond the mind." Dozens of ways of going beyond the mind have been described. Whether someone will choose to shift attention away from the mind or stay focused upon what the mind conjures up is the choice that each human must make for him/herself. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 15:54:23 GMT -5
Discovering what we are and what's going on ends the search because all of the curtains have been pulled away. Afterwards, one can live an ordinary life detached from ideation. Life becomes extremely simple and direct. Chop wood, carry water, read books, trade stocks, learn another language, have dinner with friends, and do whatever the next thing is that needs to be done. That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. It might be useful to rephrase some of that to more accurately reflect the true level of certainty (which can't be absolute), and the fact that it is phenomenon in consciousness, not solid. For example: I feel like like I am a knot. I sometimes observe a feeling, or thought, that "my knot sucks". Then there's a bit more space, and it discriminates what is known for sure (only consciousness / I-Am), and puts the mind stuff more in it's place. You observe it, you feel it, it's "out there" in the field. But it's not certain knowledge. |
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Post by justlikeyou on May 10, 2023 18:09:58 GMT -5
That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. Emulate the Buddha, if you are serious about being untied. Go sit still somewhere, for as long as it takes, determined to wait, for as long as it takes, for the solution to appear. Matt 7:14 |
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Post by justlikeyou on May 10, 2023 19:29:51 GMT -5
What's interesting is my immediate visceral feeling when I read your post and saw that it was from chat GPT so I'm thinking to myself this is not real, this is not a real response from you. Just to be clear. I didn't write any kind of response. I simply posted my questions (and your comment) in the text box and the AI responded in its own way. It surprised and delighted me very much with its replies. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 23:05:45 GMT -5
Some people here are arguing that there are others which I can see and interact with. This is apparently clear to everyone. But when one says that there are no others, he is pointing the greater truth that separation doesn't really exist. Only one is in action. you don't have to argue that there are others because it is self-evident that there are. What is there to argue? This is not a greater truth that there is no separation and therefore no others. The truth is that there are others and there is no separation. There is Unity within Diversity and Diversity within Unity. You're trying to make this logical by saying there are no others to make it work in terms of no separation. But logic has no part to play here. Of course you want to make it logical because you are trapped in your mind which has been taught to think logically. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 23:10:40 GMT -5
That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. The knot (sense of selfhood) referred to IS the fundamental illusion. How can a non-existent knot be untied? The problem is that the mind imagines that there is a knot, and if that thought is believed, it will prompt one to search for a way to untie something that doesn't exist. Niz told a seeker that in order to find the truth (see through the illusion of the knot) one must "go beyond the mind." Dozens of ways of going beyond the mind have been described. Whether someone will choose to shift attention away from the mind or stay focused upon what the mind conjures up is the choice that each human must make for him/herself. How can the knot be non-existent if you are suggesting ways to go beyond mind so that you can untie the knot? The knot is real. It is not non-existent. If it was non existent you wouldn't be talking about a knot that doesn't exist but needs to be untied. There are no illusions. Everything you experience is real. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 10, 2023 23:47:19 GMT -5
That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. Emulate the Buddha, if you are serious about being untied. Go sit still somewhere, for as long as it takes, determined to wait, for as long as it takes, for the solution to appear. Matt 7:14 I gave ZD a 3-word answer to a question a couple of days ago, he didn't respond, so I deleted it, I gave him at least 24 hours. It wasn't a real answer anyway. I've asked very few real questions here in 14 years, that is, where I needed an answer, maybe none. I've just been playing Socrates, badly, it seems. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 11, 2023 0:04:51 GMT -5
Some people here are arguing that there are others which I can see and interact with. This is apparently clear to everyone. But when one says that there are no others, he is pointing the greater truth that separation doesn't really exist. Only one is in action. you don't have to argue that there are others because it is self-evident that there are. What is there to argue? This is not a greater truth that there is no separation and therefore no others. The truth is that there are others and there is no separation. There is Unity within Diversity and Diversity within Unity. You're trying to make this logical by saying there are no others to make it work in terms of no separation. But logic has no part to play here. Of course you want to make it logical because you are trapped in your mind which has been taught to think logically. . I will give my view once more, here seems a good place. There is an actual true individuation. It is a seed of potential. It is what we are born with, or saying differently, born as, our essence. As analogy, essence is the "hardware". Personality is our name for what is acquired after birth, the contents stored in the neural structure, the "software". The contents are the memories, the structure of thought, what our thinking arises from. Also, to a great extent emotions, the nasty emotions, negative emotions which we copy from others, as children. The personality/ego/mask/persona is formed mostly from our experiences of the first six years, more or less. Once the persona is formed then we experience life through this false self, yes, the imaginary self, it is not-who-we-are. So, who we actually are as a true individuation, our essence, is buried under the persona, most people never experience or function through their essence throughout the remainder of their life. So the spiritual journey is about uncovering and recovering and living through our essence. This has been my life for 47 years. I've said all this at least 50 times, just like this, it's not that complicated. I would say that satchitananda is one of the very few who live this, his words speak to it. Others, throw out the baby with the bathwater. Some, a few here, are trying, being careful so as not to throw out the baby, too. |
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Post by justlikeyou on May 11, 2023 7:08:57 GMT -5
Emulate the Buddha, if you are serious about being untied. Go sit still somewhere, for as long as it takes, determined to wait, for as long as it takes, for the solution to appear. Matt 7:14 I gave ZD a 3-word answer to a question a couple of days ago, he didn't respond, so I deleted it, I gave him at least 24 hours. It wasn't a real answer anyway. I've asked very few real questions here in 14 years, that is, where I needed an answer, maybe none. I've just been playing Socrates, badly, it seems. The state of “not knowing” is frightening to the egoic mind. Means loss of control. Your quick retreat from that position is not so surprising. |
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Post by zendancer on May 11, 2023 8:11:00 GMT -5
Emulate the Buddha, if you are serious about being untied. Go sit still somewhere, for as long as it takes, determined to wait, for as long as it takes, for the solution to appear. Matt 7:14 I gave ZD a 3-word answer to a question a couple of days ago, he didn't respond, so I deleted it, I gave him at least 24 hours. It wasn't a real answer anyway. I've asked very few real questions here in 14 years, that is, where I needed an answer, maybe none. I've just been playing Socrates, badly, it seems. The answer, "I don't know," is honest. As JLY points out, the question is whether one is willing to remain in a not-knowing state of mind until answers appear from a level of intelligence that is deeper than the intellect. Many Buddhists call that level of intelligence "intuition," and some writers have called it "body-knowing" as opposed to "head-knowing." Einstein said, "I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me." The same approach can be used for discovering answers to any existential question. From my POV acknowledging that one doesn't know is a necessary first step in the process of discovering whatever it is that one wants to know. I can remember a point in time when I knew that I didn't know anything important. As I took more and more college courses, I also remember thinking, "It seems strange that the more I learn the less I seem to know." At that time I had no idea why that seemed to be so, but now it's quite obvious. Like most adults, I was filling up the intellect with more and more abstract ideas about reality, but they were carrying me farther and farther away from what Jesus called, "The living truth." Most adults spend their time spinning in the mind, entranced by the habit of ideation and attached to all kinds of ideas and beliefs. Meanwhile, the truth is always here and now manifesting "just like this." It doesn't matter whether one looks outwardly (ATA-T) or inwardly (self enquiry, mantra recitation, breath awareness, etc); the key is shifting attention away from that which is imaginary to that which is not imaginary. "Chopping wood and carrying water" without reflection is the way. |
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Post by zazeniac on May 11, 2023 9:54:05 GMT -5
This has been a useful discussion for this body/mind. Thanks.
The conundrum of "knowing" that everything is seamless and living as if there are separate entities and objects is interesting.
Truth is the one eyed man can't function in the world of the blind unless he conforms.
Or even though I know countries are not real, but man made ideas, mental constructs, I still obtain passports, pay taxes, stand for the anthem, and keep my mouth shut about it for the most part.
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