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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 28, 2022 11:13:25 GMT -5
This is especially for sree. What would you do if you could do anything? Includes, also, what would you be? Limitations, you can't impose your will on another.
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Post by sree on Nov 28, 2022 11:58:57 GMT -5
This is especially for sree. What would you do if you could do anything? Includes, also, what would you be? Limitations, you can't impose your will on another. Thank you for the question, stardust. You and I are the only two Krishnamurti devotees in this forum.
If I could do anything, I would - first of all - give God a kick in his backside for creating such a mess. It's his fault. It's not the SVP messing things up. Making it your responsibility to get rid of the SVP has given rise to all the crazies populating this forum.
If I could do anything, then I would cast a magic spell to remove the malware in Consciousness and erase the illusion of uniqueness in self-identity of the SVP. Consciousness can have different names and body forms but no multiple personality disorder. This will get rid of conflict. Then, there is the Momo problem to fix on account of the body's vulnerability to disease, injury, old age and death. Do you have any solutions in this regard?
How's that for starters?
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 3:07:18 GMT -5
This is especially for sree. What would you do if you could do anything? Includes, also, what would you be? Limitations, you can't impose your will on another. Thank you for the question, stardust. You and I are the only two Krishnamurti devotees in this forum.
If I could do anything, I would - first of all - give God a kick in his backside for creating such a mess. It's his fault. It's not the SVP messing things up. Making it your responsibility to get rid of the SVP has given rise to all the crazies populating this forum.
If I could do anything, then I would cast a magic spell to remove the malware in Consciousness and erase the illusion of uniqueness in self-identity of the SVP. Consciousness can have different names and body forms but no multiple personality disorder. This will get rid of conflict. Then, there is the Momo problem to fix on account of the body's vulnerability to disease, injury, old age and death. Do you have any solutions in this regard?
How's that for starters?
Don't settle for the "god" of your imagination. |
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 17:46:24 GMT -5
Thank you for the question, stardust. You and I are the only two Krishnamurti devotees in this forum.
If I could do anything, I would - first of all - give God a kick in his backside for creating such a mess. It's his fault. It's not the SVP messing things up. Making it your responsibility to get rid of the SVP has given rise to all the crazies populating this forum.
If I could do anything, then I would cast a magic spell to remove the malware in Consciousness and erase the illusion of uniqueness in self-identity of the SVP. Consciousness can have different names and body forms but no multiple personality disorder. This will get rid of conflict. Then, there is the Momo problem to fix on account of the body's vulnerability to disease, injury, old age and death. Do you have any solutions in this regard?
How's that for starters?
Don't settle for the "god" of your imagination. Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern."
Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you.  The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above.
What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify.
With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 29, 2022 19:28:10 GMT -5
Don't settle for the "god" of your imagination. Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern." Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you. The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify. With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson |
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 19:45:49 GMT -5
Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern." Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you. The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify. With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson You have no clarity, stardust; no penetrating insight. You are not alone, and that's the only consolation you have.
Just because a punch on the face is tangible to the senses doesn't mean it is not conceptual. We perceive everything - including those tangible to the senses - through cognition, with the mind. Can you grasp that?
Here I am talking to you. Me, my life is empty of distractions. I live in a state of silence in conversation with you, a state of noise generated by your family, your friends, your books, etc.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 29, 2022 19:52:46 GMT -5
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson You have no clarity, stardust; no penetrating insight. You are not alone, and that's the only consolation you have. Just because a punch on the face is tangible to the senses doesn't mean it is not conceptual. We perceive everything - including those tangible to the senses - through cognition, with the mind. Can you grasp that? Here I am talking to you. Me, my life is empty of distractions. I live in a state of silence in conversation with you, a state of noise generated by your family, your friends, your books, etc.
Yes, I agree. Kant is my old friend. We only experience our own representations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I looked down and saw Don Juan sitting below me; way below me. The momentum carried me forward one more step, which was even more elastic and longer than the preceding one. And from there I soared. I remember coming down once; then I pushed up with both feet, sprang backwards and glided on my back. 1 saw the dark sky above me, the clouds going by me. I jerked my body so I could look down. I saw the dark mass of the mountains. My speed was extraordinary. After learning how to maneuver by turning his head, Castaneda experienced "such freedom and swiftness as he had never known before." At last he felt obliged to descend. It was morning and he was naked and a half-mile from where he had set out. Don Juan assured him that with practice he would become a better flyer: You can soar through the air for hundreds of miles to see what Is happening at any place you want, or to deliver a fatal blow to your enemies far away. Castaneda asked his teacher, "Did I really fly, Don Juan?" and the shaman replied, "Thats what you told me. Didnt you?" Then I really didnt fly, Don Juan. I flew in my imagination~ in my mind alone. Where was my body? To Which Don Juan rejoined: You dont think a man flies; and yet a brujo [witch] can move a thousand miles in one second to see what is going on. He can deliver a blow to his enemies long distances away. So does he or doesnt he fly? Does this sound familiar? It should. What are Don Juan and Castaneda debating if not the respective merits of the Canon Episcopi and Institor and Sprengers Hammer of the Witches? Does the witch fly in mind alone or in body also? At last, Castaneda asks Don Juan what would happen if he tied himself to a rock with a heavy chain: "Fm afraid you will have to fly holding the rock with its heavy chain."  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 20:11:29 GMT -5
Don't settle for the "god" of your imagination. Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern." Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you. The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify. With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
Oh my my now.  Here, I'll break it down for ya'. It's possible to gain the insight that your body isn't really separate from the Earth, and that the Earth isn't really the Earth as we know it without the Sun (ie, that the Earth-Sun form a system, and aren't really "separate"). This is a shadow of nonduality. The metaphor, stated in direct, linguistic metaphorical terms is: "the physical connection between body, Earth and Sun" is a meta- phor the "absence of separation of nonduality". The term " physical metaphor" was applicable because the first element of the metaphor involved physical entities: your body, the Earth and the Sun, while the second element of the metaphor - nonduality - has no direct physical analog, which is why, of course, combining/comparing/contrasting the two is entirely symbolic. As in (wait for it .. drumroll ...) metaphorical. You might want to consider the possibility that you're not as smart as you imagine you are. You're tryin' waaaaay too hard here fella'. This is a fallacy. Another projection, perhaps. For some of us, the impetus for an interest in spirituality is curiosity. Your idea of humanity is interesting in a philosophical sense, but the ultimate value of spiritual philosophy - as demonstrated (if by nothing else) by human history - is quite limited.
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 20:16:24 GMT -5
Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern." Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you. The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify. With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson sree's starting to flirt with a meltdown.  |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 29, 2022 21:56:18 GMT -5
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson sree's starting to flirt with a meltdown. It seems we're still in the early flailing around/denial stage. He keeps stirring the mud koolaid and talking about how clear and and especially delicious it is, so I guess that's his game for hiding. Not enough honesty. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 29, 2022 22:00:22 GMT -5
This is especially for sree. What would you do if you could do anything? Includes, also, what would you be? Limitations, you can't impose your will on another. Thank you for the question, stardust. You and I are the only two Krishnamurti devotees in this forum.
If I could do anything, I would - first of all - give God a kick in his backside for creating such a mess. It's his fault. It's not the SVP messing things up. Making it your responsibility to get rid of the SVP has given rise to all the crazies populating this forum.
If I could do anything, then I would cast a magic spell to remove the malware in Consciousness and erase the illusion of uniqueness in self-identity of the SVP. Consciousness can have different names and body forms but no multiple personality disorder. This will get rid of conflict. Then, there is the Momo problem to fix on account of the body's vulnerability to disease, injury, old age and death. Do you have any solutions in this regard?
How's that for starters?
What happens when you SEE an illusion for what it is, and without any doubt? |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 29, 2022 22:12:01 GMT -5
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson You have no clarity, stardust; no penetrating insight. You are not alone, and that's the only consolation you have. Just because a punch on the face is tangible to the senses doesn't mean it is not conceptual. We perceive everything - including those tangible to the senses - through cognition, with the mind. Can you grasp that? Here I am talking to you. Me, my life is empty of distractions. I live in a state of silence in conversation with you, a state of noise generated by your family, your friends, your books, etc.
Wherever the 'me' goes with its distractions, there the 'me' is with its distractions. You enjoy being discursive, and don't appear to be free of the fears and suffering that drive it. |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 29, 2022 23:18:09 GMT -5
What happens when you SEE an illusion for what it is, and without any doubt? That's a multi-part interesting question ... To me, the idea of " without any doubt" is a warning for my being wrong. There is almost nothing in reality that I can think of, and not having any doubt. Then, to me, an " illusion" is a held belief when I realized that it was false. It is also possible that my realization about that belief to have been false, and not the belief. Beliefs are conscious (our assumptions), and unconscious (our truths, that we don't even think of questioning). " Seeing", in this context, is like waking up to a new reality, with a new set of beliefs (especially truths). It is like becoming lucid in your dream, or like passing over (dying). If you had a "life-between-lives" regression, you probably experienced dying (I don't talk about NDEs, which aren't real dying). |
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 23:18:12 GMT -5
Below are your posts lifted from other threads for further examination:
Laffy said:
"The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern." Laffy said: "Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you. The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping."
Let's focus on the bolded parts of your posts above. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? Physical means a perceived thing tangible to the senses. Metaphor means a figure of speech (not tangible to the senses). Therefore, "physical metaphor" is a conjunction of contradictory terms: oxymoron. I am not being condescending but just pointing out what appears to me to be an error. So, please clarify. With regard to the dichotomy, it all rest on what "humanity" (i.e. whole) is as a real tangible living experience and not an imagined one. The real test, and you must test it to assure that sanity prevails in relationship of the part to the whole in daily life. You may fake this but you will be lying to and make a fool of yourself. The worst case scenario is insanity because the drive to go spiritual is inner unhappiness. Insanity, an acute state of despair, could lead to suicide, killing the body to end the psychological pain.
Don't laugh. As long as you folks are playing in shallow water, I will join you in the fun. But I am not here for the fun.
By the way, everything is conceptual but this post is getting too long. Let's check this out later.
Oh my my now. Here, I'll break it down for ya'. It's possible to gain the insight that your body isn't really separate from the Earth, and that the Earth isn't really the Earth as we know it without the Sun (ie, that the Earth-Sun form a system, and aren't really "separate"). This is a shadow of nonduality. The metaphor, stated in direct, linguistic metaphorical terms is: "the physical connection between body, Earth and Sun" is a meta- phor the "absence of separation of nonduality". The term " physical metaphor" was applicable because the first element of the metaphor involved physical entities: your body, the Earth and the Sun, while the second element of the metaphor - nonduality - has no direct physical analog, which is why, of course, combining/comparing/contrasting the two is entirely symbolic. As in (wait for it .. drumroll ...) metaphorical. You might want to consider the possibility that you're not as smart as you imagine you are. You're tryin' waaaaay too hard here fella'. This is a fallacy. Another projection, perhaps. For some of us, the impetus for an interest in spirituality is curiosity. Your idea of humanity is interesting in a philosophical sense, but the ultimate value of spiritual philosophy - as demonstrated (if by nothing else) by human history - is quite limited.
You are not answering my direct question. I repeat. What is your definition of "physical metaphor"? I am questioning your use of the English Language. You are not Gopal, a Tamil from India. You have no excuse for lack of proficiency in the use of English. I am of the opinion that you are sloppy in your use of reason and your English reflects crooked thinking.
The reason for disorder in the world is our inability to think straight.
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 23:29:38 GMT -5
Everything is conceptual until you get punched in the nose. Mike Tyson sree's starting to flirt with a meltdown. I think your laughing persona is a facade to hide your lack of substance. The Dalai Lama comes to mind. Here is another Laffy in the video below.
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The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Here, I'll break it down for ya'.
