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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2022 8:41:44 GMT -5
Problems do not exist out there in the world, all problems exist within ourselves, ~we~ are the problem, that is, the conditioned self. It sounds like you have taken care of the needs of the body, food, shelter and clothes, so the problem is *satisfying* the needs of the conditioned self, your psychology. One of the first things I posted to you, Wherever you go, there you are. So it doesn't matter, a part of society, or not, you carry around your own problems. We are like velcro, there is a mesh side, you, and a hooks side, the world. The conditioned self, the mesh, the lock, is seeking to find something exterior to fulfill it, the hooks side of the velcro, or a key. So nothing has to be given up externally. Loneliness arises from the mesh (without the world-hooks). One can be alone in a crowd and be lonely, one can be alone, apart from people, and can be lonely, or not lonely. The mesh can be altered so that the hooks-world does not attach to it. This is real freedom. Momo had somehow detached from the world, nothing in the world was worth her interest. I'd say that was a failure, she was still living through her conditioned self. The mesh was still there, but could find nothing to 'go after' to bring fulfillment or satisfaction. It seemed Bourdain still needed something exterior to fulfill himself. It seemed he had found the perfect lady, mesh and hooks. But she left, betrayed him in some way. It seems that sree is ~afraid~ of being disappointed in life, so is withdrawing from life. But the conditioned-mesh is still there, it seems, from your own admission. There is a ~place~, ~space~ within, where there is no mesh, nothing for the world to attach to. This is freedom. This would be the key for Momo. This could have been the key for Bourdain. But it's not so easy to *~be that~*, to come to that, to **get there**. But then it doesn't matter, in the world, or separate from the world. Did you see any film of Hurricane Ian? In the eye of a hurricane is a still point, no wind, no storm. Sometimes above is a clear blue sky. This thread is about Momo wanting to die. It's not about Bourdain or sree. It's about the phenomenon of suicide. Momo's situation is a sad human condition. All of us are locked in to live out lives that have no meaning to us. On top of that are the stresses of relationship conflicts, lack of money, and health issues. Wanting to die is a sane response. In nature, things wither when resources to support life in inadequate or absent. Bourdain's suicide was a misadventure. In my opinion, it is not worthy of attention. It was equivalent to a fatal crash at the Monza racing circuit. He was a New Yorker who lived in that fast and loose world all his life. He was a Tin Man. Argento couldn't have broken his heart.
What problems exist in sree? I am not afraid of being disappointed in life. I am disappointed with life. I have no delusions. I have no other purpose in life apart from minding the body. All the problems I face are out there in the world: crime and violence in the cities, war in Europe, etc. and I want no part of it. Your velcro analogy is unclear.
It's absurd to say "all of us are locked in to live out lives that have no meaning to us". Don't you know it's absurd to say that? You are disappointed in life? You are not trying hard enough. Buried inside you is a compass. You have to find that compass. Wear a shovel out if you have to, then dig with your bare hands until they bleed. The velcro? Try this on for size. Every day you wake up put on a sree suit. Everything that enters ~you~ has to pass through that sree-suit. The sree-suit filters out everything that is not sree. That's how you can say: "All of us are locked in to live out lives that have no meaning to us". The sree-suit colors everything. You have given up. I picked up this book once, it was on sale at the Mars Hill College Bookstore. My sister went there. I should have gone there. I talked myself into going to UNCC, living at home and commuting, telling myself I couldn't give up playing hockey and going to Charlotte Checker games. But I had dropped by there years later. You are a Samuel Beckett. He could only-see from his own Samuel Beckett-suit. The name of the book was: I Can't Go On, I'll Go On. Samuel Beckett. Don't settle for, I can't go on, I'll go on. That's the Papagenos. I've been there. Keep digging. (Yes, I bought the book). You can run from second force (see next > post<), but you can't hide. If you make any active movement, take any initiative, second force will eventually show up. This is Gopal's rollercoaster. Second force is just a part of life, just a part of the manifest world, just part of the way the universe is structured. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But sometimes it's enough to take the dogs for a walk in the eye of a hurricane. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2022 9:07:25 GMT -5
Problems do not exist out there in the world, all problems exist within ourselves, ~we~ are the problem, that is, the conditioned self. It sounds like you have taken care of the needs of the body, food, shelter and clothes, so the problem is *satisfying* the needs of the conditioned self, your psychology. One of the first things I posted to you, Wherever you go, there you are. So it doesn't matter, a part of society, or not, you carry around your own problems. We are like velcro, there is a mesh side, you, and a hooks side, the world. The conditioned self, the mesh, the lock, is seeking to find something exterior to fulfill it, the hooks side of the velcro, or a key. So nothing has to be given up externally. Loneliness arises from the mesh (without the world-hooks). One can be alone in a crowd and be lonely, one can be alone, apart from people, and can be lonely, or not lonely. The mesh can be altered so that the hooks-world does not attach to it. This is real freedom. Momo had somehow detached from the world, nothing in the world was worth her interest. I'd say that was a failure, she was still living through her conditioned self. The mesh was still there, but could find nothing to 'go after' to bring fulfillment or satisfaction. It seemed Bourdain still needed something exterior to fulfill himself. It seemed he had found the perfect lady, mesh and hooks. But she left, betrayed him in some way. It seems that sree is ~afraid~ of being disappointed in life, so is withdrawing from life. But the conditioned-mesh is still there, it seems, from your own admission. There is a ~place~, ~space~ within, where there is no mesh, nothing for the world to attach to. This is freedom. This would be the key for Momo. This could have been the key for Bourdain. But it's not so easy to *~be that~*, to come to that, to **get there**. But then it doesn't matter, in the world, or separate from the world. Did you see any film of Hurricane Ian? In the eye of a hurricane is a still point, no wind, no storm. Sometimes above is a clear blue sky. Was just in that eye. Took my dogs for a walk. What you say about problems is true, mostly. , of course. When the problem of self is solved, yes, there are other problems. I see all of life in forces, 3 forces. So when the problem of self is solved, the forces still exist. They have different names, the 3 gunas of the Upanishads is one name. Rajas is first force, active force, positive, in the sense of polarity, initiative, yang. Tamas is second force, the force of opposition or negation, resistance, passive, yin. Sattva is neutralizing force, third force, which breaks the balance between yin and yang, second force and first force. You can't see third force like you can see first force and second force. If you look, you can see that first force always brings second force, always. These are what we call, problems. It's just life. But the three, derive from One, of course. One, unmanifest. Three, manifest. But they exist simultaneously. |
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Post by sree on Oct 2, 2022 11:37:20 GMT -5
Was just in that eye. Took my dogs for a walk. What you say about problems is true, mostly. , of course. When the problem of self is solved, yes, there are other problems. I see all of life in forces, 3 forces. So when the problem of self is solved, the forces still exist. They have different names, the 3 gunas of the Upanishads is one name. Rajas is first force, active force, positive, in the sense of polarity, initiative, yang. Tamas is second force, the force of opposition or negation, resistance, passive, yin. Sattva is neutralizing force, third force, which breaks the balance between yin and yang, second force and first force. You can't see third force like you can see first force and second force. If you look, you can see that first force always brings second force, always. These are what we call, problems. It's just life. But the three, derive from One, of course. One, unmanifest. Three, manifest. But they exist simultaneously. The problem of self, to you, may not be a problem of self to me. My problem with self is this state of awareness of being a minder of the body. This is as far as I can go in paring down the problems of the self. In a conventional life, the self has more problems living in a social setting in which other selves are tied to you. Living with no psychological relationships with comfort animals (i.e dog, cat, wife, grandfather, gurus, celebrities, etc.) is a load off. Laffy's suggestion to meet people to deal with loneliness would be an advice to a recovering alcoholic to have a few drinks and be happy.
I am developing a relationship with nature. In the mornings, I am with the trees in my garden. The ambience comes from a different culture absent of human energy. Krishnamurti said he could hear the sound of the trees in that quiet when not a leaf is moving. I have not gotten that far yet. The trees are still trees even though their conceptual nature is apparent and they are not perceived as objects of science. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2022 12:08:00 GMT -5
Yes, of course. When the problem of self is solved, yes, there are other problems. I see all of life in forces, 3 forces. So when the problem of self is solved, the forces still exist. They have different names, the 3 gunas of the Upanishads is one name. Rajas is first force, active force, positive, in the sense of polarity, initiative, yang. Tamas is second force, the force of opposition or negation, resistance, passive, yin. Sattva is neutralizing force, third force, which breaks the balance between yin and yang, second force and first force. You can't see third force like you can see first force and second force. If you look, you can see that first force always brings second force, always. These are what we call, problems. It's just life. But the three, derive from One, of course. One, unmanifest. Three, manifest. But they exist simultaneously. The problem of self, to you, may not be a problem of self to me. My problem with self is this state of awareness of being a minder of the body. This is as far as I can go in paring down the problems of the self. In a conventional life, the self has more problems living in a social setting in which other selves are tied to you. Living with no psychological relationships with comfort animals (i.e dog, cat, wife, grandfather, gurus, celebrities, etc.) is a load off. Laffy's suggestion to meet people to deal with loneliness would be an advice to a recovering alcoholic to have a few drinks and be happy. I am developing a relationship with nature. In the mornings, I am with the trees in my garden. The ambience comes from a different culture absent of human energy. Krishnamurti said he could hear the sound of the trees in that quiet when not a leaf is moving. I have not gotten that far yet. The trees are still trees even though their conceptual nature is apparent and they are not perceived as objects of science. I'm going by what you posted, you said all people live lives with no meaning. You said you are disappointed with life. All includes sree. Those are self-problems. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 5, 2022 13:26:50 GMT -5
I'm impressed nonetheless. When I read The Moviegoer I didn't know anything about Walker Percy except I had browsed his then just out new book, The Second Coming, and liked it, knew I wanted to read it. There was a fascinating character in it, a girl with a speech disability, the main character (from an earlier book, The Last Gentleman) chanced upon her, and they became friends. That was enough to grab me. So I knew nothing about Percy's background reading The Moviegoer. I was likewise entranced. The main character's of all Percy's novels are on some kind of (existential) search. But none were as good as The Moviegoer. And, now, tons have been written about the novel. I think I'll have to read it again after 42 years, just for the joy of it. ....Oh, I also learned along the way that the movie rights were bought pretty early, and they have been passed around a few times, bought out. The last I remember Robert Redford had the rights. But making a film from it would be difficult, as a great deal of it takes place in Binx Bolling's head. And the films Binx sees and talks about are of course very dated. .......I would be curious as to your Mom's reading list of the last 20 years, her top picks... I don't know what her top picks were. She was concerned about my lack of love for reading. Like a mother bird feeding food to her chick, she would regurgitate the gist of the books she read into my head at dinner as we ate. The only way she could get me to "swallow" was by provoking me to question the ideas she put before me. It's what I do to you guys. Same method for waking a dead mind. Below are the books I recall: Mikail Bulgakov Master and Marguerita
Graham Greene Quiet American
Alan Bloom Closing of the American Mind
Nietzsche God is Dead.
Michel Foucault Madness and Civilization
Fyodor Dostoevsky Crime n punishment
Tolstoy War and Peace
V S Naipul An Area of Darkness
Hemingway Old Man and The Sea
Krishnamurti
F scott fitzgerald The Great Gatsby
Phillip Roth The Human Stain.
Thanks. Have only read these. Have these but they have not been a priority. I have another obscure book by Foucault, he seems like a very smart dude. I may get to it some day. I have browsed Nietzsche but have not read. You would probably like him. Did your Mom ever mention Simone Weil? Sounds like she might have liked her. Weil is virtually unique. She was a philosopher-teacher-writer-mystic-political philosopher-laborer-WWII Nazi resister in France (laborer to understand the common man/woman). Albert Camus loved her work, her life. He basically "resurrected" her and made her known to the public. She died to early, she did not take care of her body, died in 1942 or '43. Gravity and Grace is my favorite book of hers. I'll try to find a couple of quotes. Read 13. Simone Weil is your kind of spirituality. 4. " Absolutely unmixed attention is prayer." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 5. "Justice. To be ever ready to admit that another person is something quite different from what we read when he is there (or when we think about him). Or rather, to read in him that he is certainly something different, perhaps something completely different from what we read in him. Every being cries out silently to be read differently." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 6. "He who has not God in himself cannot feel His absence." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 7. "The world is the closed door. It is a barrier. And at the same time it is the way through. Two prisoners whose cells adjoin communicate with each other by knocking on the wall. The wall is the thing which separates them but it is also their means of communication. … Every separation is a link."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 8. "Electra weeping for the dead Orestes. If we love God while thinking that he does not exist, he will manifest his existence." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 9. "Stars and blossoming fruit trees: Utter permanence and extreme fragility give an equal sense of eternity." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace Gravity and Grace Quotes. 11. "The man who has known pure joy, if only for a moment ... is the only man for whom affliction is something devastating. At the same time he is the only man who has not deserved the punishment. But, after all, for him it is no punishment; it is God holding his hand and pressing rather hard. For, if he remains constant, what he will discover buried deep under the sound of his own lamentations is the pearl of the silence of God."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 12. "Time’s violence rends the soul; by the rent eternity enters." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 13. "If we know in what way society is unbalanced, we must do what we can to add weight to the lighter scale ... we must have formed a conception of equilibrium and be ever ready to change sides like justice, 'that fugitive from the camp of conquerors'."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 14. "Man only escapes from the laws of this world in lightning flashes. Instants when everything stands still, instants of contemplation, of pure intuition, of mental void, of acceptance of the moral void. It is through such instants that he is capable of the supernatural." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 15. " The mind is not forced to believe in the existence of anything (subjectivism, absolute idealism, solipsism, skepticism: c.f. the Upanishads, the Taoists and Plato, who, all of them, adopt this philosophical attitude by way of purification). That is why the only organ of contact with existence is acceptance, love. That is why beauty and reality are identical. That is why joy and the sense of reality are identical." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace quotes from this website: www.aamboli.com/quotes/book/gravity-and-grace |
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Post by sree on Oct 5, 2022 14:04:39 GMT -5
I don't know what her top picks were. She was concerned about my lack of love for reading. Like a mother bird feeding food to her chick, she would regurgitate the gist of the books she read into my head at dinner as we ate. The only way she could get me to "swallow" was by provoking me to question the ideas she put before me. It's what I do to you guys. Same method for waking a dead mind. Below are the books I recall: Mikail Bulgakov Master and Marguerita
Graham Greene Quiet American
Alan Bloom Closing of the American Mind
Nietzsche God is Dead.
Michel Foucault Madness and Civilization
Fyodor Dostoevsky Crime n punishment
Tolstoy War and Peace
V S Naipul An Area of Darkness
Hemingway Old Man and The Sea
Krishnamurti
F scott fitzgerald The Great Gatsby
Phillip Roth The Human Stain.
Thanks. Have only read these. Have these but they have not been a priority. I have another obscure book by Foucault, he seems like a very smart dude. I may get to it some day. I have browsed Nietzsche but have not read. You would probably like him. Did your Mom ever mention Simone Weil? Sounds like she might have liked her. Weil is virtually unique. She was a philosopher-teacher-writer-mystic-political philosopher-laborer-WWII Nazi resister in France (laborer to understand the common man/woman). Albert Camus loved her work, her life. He basically "resurrected" her and made her known to the public. She died to early, she did not take care of her body, died in 1942 or '43. Gravity and Grace is my favorite book of hers. I'll try to find a couple of quotes. Read 13. Simone Weil is your kind of spirituality. 4. " Absolutely unmixed attention is prayer." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 5. "Justice. To be ever ready to admit that another person is something quite different from what we read when he is there (or when we think about him). Or rather, to read in him that he is certainly something different, perhaps something completely different from what we read in him. Every being cries out silently to be read differently." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 6. "He who has not God in himself cannot feel His absence." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 7. "The world is the closed door. It is a barrier. And at the same time it is the way through. Two prisoners whose cells adjoin communicate with each other by knocking on the wall. The wall is the thing which separates them but it is also their means of communication. … Every separation is a link."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 8. "Electra weeping for the dead Orestes. If we love God while thinking that he does not exist, he will manifest his existence." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 9. "Stars and blossoming fruit trees: Utter permanence and extreme fragility give an equal sense of eternity." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace Gravity and Grace Quotes. 11. "The man who has known pure joy, if only for a moment ... is the only man for whom affliction is something devastating. At the same time he is the only man who has not deserved the punishment. But, after all, for him it is no punishment; it is God holding his hand and pressing rather hard. For, if he remains constant, what he will discover buried deep under the sound of his own lamentations is the pearl of the silence of God."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 12. "Time’s violence rends the soul; by the rent eternity enters." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 13. "If we know in what way society is unbalanced, we must do what we can to add weight to the lighter scale ... we must have formed a conception of equilibrium and be ever ready to change sides like justice, 'that fugitive from the camp of conquerors'."- Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 14. "Man only escapes from the laws of this world in lightning flashes. Instants when everything stands still, instants of contemplation, of pure intuition, of mental void, of acceptance of the moral void. It is through such instants that he is capable of the supernatural." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 15. " The mind is not forced to believe in the existence of anything (subjectivism, absolute idealism, solipsism, skepticism: c.f. the Upanishads, the Taoists and Plato, who, all of them, adopt this philosophical attitude by way of purification). That is why the only organ of contact with existence is acceptance, love. That is why beauty and reality are identical. That is why joy and the sense of reality are identical." - Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace quotes from this website: www.aamboli.com/quotes/book/gravity-and-grace Looks like you and I are literary standouts in this dump. We class up this place. Feels good, doesn't it? So, what made you feel so worthless that you wanted to die back then in Colorado? |
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