Death

[stardustpilgrim]

Jun 16, 2022 15:27:59 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 16, 2022 14:56:53 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

I perceive an actual living being, until you speak.

So, when you are in a bustling public space such as an airport or supermarket, you see actual living beings?

In mass, I know most of those people live through an illusory false sense of self. Babies and small children have not yet formed a cultural self, so are authentic. I try to approach anyone I encounter with compassion, everybody deserves a chance of respect. I try to start every day new, a clean slate. But, "When among wolves, must learn to howl like a wolf".

[sree]

Jun 16, 2022 17:29:03 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jun 16, 2022 15:27:59 GMT -5 sree said:

So, when you are in a bustling public space such as an airport or supermarket, you see actual living beings?

In mass, I know most of those people live through an illusory false sense of self. Babies and small children have not yet formed a cultural self, so are authentic. I try to approach anyone I encounter with compassion, everybody deserves a chance of respect. I try to start every day new, a clean slate. But, "When among wolves, must learn to howl like a wolf".

Babies and small children who have not yet formed a cultural self are actual living beings to you. Therefore, transformation - as Krishnamurti meant it - would be the erasure of the cultural self. And this is brought about one cultural self at a time.

I see your point. I assume you are not presenting a theory. Are you?

No one here would want to go through the hard times you went through tending to your parents. It was a personal hardship borne by you alone and your sibling(s). There must have been a financial drain also. Ours is a predatory healthcare system. One guy in a discussion forum said that he and his wife were admitted to the hospital for Covid. Their two week stay there racked up a bill that amounted to $250,000! Insurance picked up the tab. My neighbor has set up home care for his wife. Small wonder why he has chosen to do that instead of putting her in the constant care of physicians and nurses at the hospital.

My theory on transformation is universal change of the human consciousness. This means that the burden of one is borne by all. Don't you think such an outcome would have spared you all that hardship you had to face on your own?

           

[stardustpilgrim]

Jun 16, 2022 21:47:39 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 16, 2022 17:29:03 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

In mass, I know most of those people live through an illusory false sense of self. Babies and small children have not yet formed a cultural self, so are authentic. I try to approach anyone I encounter with compassion, everybody deserves a chance of respect. I try to start every day new, a clean slate. But, "When among wolves, must learn to howl like a wolf".

Babies and small children who have not yet formed a cultural self are actual living beings to you. Therefore, transformation - as Krishnamurti meant it - would be the erasure of the cultural self. And this is brought about one cultural self at a time.

I see your point. I assume you are not presenting a theory. Are you?

No one here would want to go through the hard times you went through tending to your parents. It was a personal hardship borne by you alone and your sibling(s). There must have been a financial drain also. Ours is a predatory healthcare system. One guy in a discussion forum said that he and his wife were admitted to the hospital for Covid. Their two week stay there racked up a bill that amounted to $250,000! Insurance picked up the tab. My neighbor has set up home care for his wife. Small wonder why he has chosen to do that instead of putting her in the constant care of physicians and nurses at the hospital.

My theory on transformation is universal change of the human consciousness. This means that the burden of one is borne by all. Don't you think such an outcome would have spared you all that hardship you had to face on your own?

           

Most things in life you have to be looking for to find.

spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3962/mindful-means-mind-body-same

[sree]

Jun 18, 2022 10:58:55 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jun 16, 2022 21:47:39 GMT -5 sree said:

Babies and small children who have not yet formed a cultural self are actual living beings to you. Therefore, transformation - as Krishnamurti meant it - would be the erasure of the cultural self. And this is brought about one cultural self at a time.

I see your point. I assume you are not presenting a theory. Are you?

No one here would want to go through the hard times you went through tending to your parents. It was a personal hardship borne by you alone and your sibling(s). There must have been a financial drain also. Ours is a predatory healthcare system. One guy in a discussion forum said that he and his wife were admitted to the hospital for Covid. Their two week stay there racked up a bill that amounted to $250,000! Insurance picked up the tab. My neighbor has set up home care for his wife. Small wonder why he has chosen to do that instead of putting her in the constant care of physicians and nurses at the hospital.

My theory on transformation is universal change of the human consciousness. This means that the burden of one is borne by all. Don't you think such an outcome would have spared you all that hardship you had to face on your own?

           

Most things in life you have to be looking for to find.

spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3962/mindful-means-mind-body-same

That's true. This is how science works. Seek and ye shall find. In the gathering of all the knowledge we have, we found ourselves in an existential prison.

Your "babies and small children are actual living beings" discovery is consistent with Jesus' observation. He said that the Kingdom of Heaven was made for them.

 

[sree]

Jun 14, 2022 9:18:00 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jun 13, 2022 18:26:42 GMT -5 sree said:

Thank you for your response. You came in a time when I feel a need for company to share a burden.

Martha has been on my mind. And a couple of hours ago, a truck pulled up next door to unload equipment: medical stuff, respirator, hospital bed. Signs on the truck said “home care, long term care, hospice”. I guess Martha will be coming home from the hospital to die.

Six and a half years ago my Dad had some health problems where he needed somebody to be with him 24/7. I stayed 5 days and my sister came on the weekends. One year 3 months later he died, 88. Basically, diabetes killed him, it just destroys the body. The last 3 months there was a domino effect of fixing one problem and that fix causing another problem, etc., in and out of the hospital and nursing home. It's a very long story. He had memory issues also, he couldn't for new memories. If you weren't with him constantly, you would know this, he seemed pretty normal. There's a feeling of being helpless. My Mother was in fair health but couldn't live alone, diabetes also, but on oxygen with pretty severe lung issues too. I rented my condo and moved in. She died 2 & 1/2 years ago from complications from surgery, 89. This was just before COVID hit 3 months later. She would have been a prime candidate to be taken out by COVID. She was just beginning to have memory issues, basically where Dad was 10 years ago. Helping them was the hardest thing I've ever done in life, for that length of time, that was almost 3 years total. There were some times with Daddy when I had to pick a time to walk for 45 minutes.

I don't know a lot about Hospice, but somebody will probably be there from Hospice at all times.

For some people, dying is a burden. For some people, living is a burden.

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.        

 

[stardustpilgrim]

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 14, 2022 9:18:00 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Six and a half years ago my Dad had some health problems where he needed somebody to be with him 24/7. I stayed 5 days and my sister came on the weekends. One year 3 months later he died, 88. Basically, diabetes killed him, it just destroys the body. The last 3 months there was a domino effect of fixing one problem and that fix causing another problem, etc., in and out of the hospital and nursing home. It's a very long story. He had memory issues also, he couldn't for new memories. If you weren't with him constantly, you would know this, he seemed pretty normal. There's a feeling of being helpless. My Mother was in fair health but couldn't live alone, diabetes also, but on oxygen with pretty severe lung issues too. I rented my condo and moved in. She died 2 & 1/2 years ago from complications from surgery, 89. This was just before COVID hit 3 months later. She would have been a prime candidate to be taken out by COVID. She was just beginning to have memory issues, basically where Dad was 10 years ago. Helping them was the hardest thing I've ever done in life, for that length of time, that was almost 3 years total. There were some times with Daddy when I had to pick a time to walk for 45 minutes.

I don't know a lot about Hospice, but somebody will probably be there from Hospice at all times.

For some people, dying is a burden. For some people, living is a burden.

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.        

 

Thanks for letting me know.

[someNOTHING!]

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 14, 2022 9:18:00 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Six and a half years ago my Dad had some health problems where he needed somebody to be with him 24/7. I stayed 5 days and my sister came on the weekends. One year 3 months later he died, 88. Basically, diabetes killed him, it just destroys the body. The last 3 months there was a domino effect of fixing one problem and that fix causing another problem, etc., in and out of the hospital and nursing home. It's a very long story. He had memory issues also, he couldn't for new memories. If you weren't with him constantly, you would know this, he seemed pretty normal. There's a feeling of being helpless. My Mother was in fair health but couldn't live alone, diabetes also, but on oxygen with pretty severe lung issues too. I rented my condo and moved in. She died 2 & 1/2 years ago from complications from surgery, 89. This was just before COVID hit 3 months later. She would have been a prime candidate to be taken out by COVID. She was just beginning to have memory issues, basically where Dad was 10 years ago. Helping them was the hardest thing I've ever done in life, for that length of time, that was almost 3 years total. There were some times with Daddy when I had to pick a time to walk for 45 minutes.

I don't know a lot about Hospice, but somebody will probably be there from Hospice at all times.

For some people, dying is a burden. For some people, living is a burden.

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.        

 

I don't know hwere you live, but here's something to consider. My mother is still dealing with depression. Using my unprofessional insight, I suspect it has been going on since she was at least 8, when her brother was killed by a driver speeding by a school bus back in the day. Anyway, long story short, I did some reading up on ketamine infusion therapy and decided to slowly introduce the idea to her. It is gaining more recognition as a potential breakthrough for depression/anxiety/and even neuropathy. At some point after the 2-3rd infusion, a person can experience a state of disassociation in which a person can experience stepping outside the habituated neural pathways of thought, and experience a shift that, when followed up with some psychological therapy of choice or deeper meditation, can help one rise above debilitating depression. Some of the literature on it expresses certain experiences which are comparable to what is sometimes identified as non-dual.

Just thought I'd share.

[sree]

Jun 29, 2022 16:06:44 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.        

 

Thanks for letting me know.

Are you being polite? It isn’t something pleasant that I am sharing. Grief is hard to bear. It must have driven my neighbor to pass the load onto me, and me to you.

Is this why we have funerals and wakes? More people bearing the pain lightens the load.

I live alone. There will be no grief to spread around when I die. No pollution.

Is it possible to live together without grief?

[Reefs]

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.       

 

You misunderstood. That's not how I used the term 'selfish'. Ultimately, there is no separation. Which means there are no others. That's what oneness means. There is only THIS. And THIS manifests in a myriad of ways, shapes and flavors and perspectives and you have access to all of that because ultimately, YOU are THAT.

So of course you can feel the pain of another, you can even sympathize or empathize with them and start feeling the same way (i.e. don a similar perspective). However, the sages don't show sympathy, they rather show compassion. (i.e. they acknowledge the perspective of the other, but they keep their own perspective). They see the other in pain, they acknowledge their pain but they don't feel pain because of that because they don't join them in their pain. They know better. They see it for what it is, someone out of alignment, seemingly cut of from their Source (which is bogus). If they would sympathize or empathize, they would see the other in pain, acknowledge their pain and then join them in their pain. And then they would have nothing to give other than more pain because they too would feel cut of from their Source (which is bogus).

Everyone just has to deal with this in their own way. Watch the movie The Road Home (1999) by Zhang Yimou. It's an excellent movie and it may put things into perspective for you. On the one hand, you are alone with your grief and no one can help you there. Even Esther, who had been channeling Abraham for like 30 years, making fun about death and calling it disrespectfully croaking, was devastated for months after Jerry died. It actually took her years to not tear up anymore anytime someone mentioned Jerry or something reminded her of Jerry. At some point she realized though that she felt more sorry about herself than Jerry and that that was no way of being in this world. And that realization changed everything for her. 

Said, that, notice how you keep creating unnecessary pain for yourself by speculating how you would feel in such a situation. What's up with that kind of self-torture? That's playing the "what if..." game to your disadvantage. You could as well play the "what if..." game to your advantage, you know?! Think about how that would look like, what kind of thoughts would you have, what would you say to yourself, how would it make you feel if you would play the "what if..." game to your advantage on this topic of grief?

Anyway, not an easy situation, especially when you don't know about this emotional scale stuff or alignment. I've had a similar situation with close family a few years back. It was quite shocking, actually, seeing someone you know as very self-confident and in charge of their life and a respected authority figure by many, suddenly reduced to a heap of tears, totally crushed and withering away. However, what I notice at the funeral, these rites actually do help people refocus, especially here in Asia where funerals are a huge event and where the entire procedure lasts weeks if not months. Abe often said that funerals are not for the dead, they are for the ones that are left behind. And that suddenly made a lot of sense. So bottom line, grief is an individual thing and no one can help you there. But the topic of grief is a universal thing. People all over the world, in all cultures have that experience, and they all have a characteristic way of dealing with it. So on the one hand, you are on your own with this, on the other hand, you are not alone with this either. You will realize that when you watch the movie. It's one of those experience, like falling in love (which is on the other end of the spectrum), that are universal and that transcend culture and time. A teenager for the first time in love in America is not different from a teenager in love in Asia or Africa or Europe. It's the same state of being. Similar with grief. And here it usually becomes painfully obvious that alignment is all you can ever count on. And that without alignment, you've got nothing and nothing is worth anything. So as SDP mentioned in another thread, these situations are sometimes great opportunities that can shake one out of the consensus trance.

[sree]

Jun 29, 2022 16:35:39 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.        

 

I don't know hwere you live, but here's something to consider. My mother is still dealing with depression. Using my unprofessional insight, I suspect it has been going on since she was at least 8, when her brother was killed by a driver speeding by a school bus back in the day. Anyway, long story short, I did some reading up on ketamine infusion therapy and decided to slowly introduce the idea to her. It is gaining more recognition as a potential breakthrough for depression/anxiety/and even neuropathy. At some point after the 2-3rd infusion, a person can experience a state of disassociation in which a person can experience stepping outside the habituated neural pathways of thought, and experience a shift that, when followed up with some psychological therapy of choice or deeper meditation, can help one rise above debilitating depression. Some of the literature on it expresses certain experiences which are comparable to what is sometimes identified as non-dual.

Just thought I'd share.

Thanks for sharing. What's your mom depressed about? I know this can be a silly question. I am not familiar with depression as a chronic matter affecting people. Apart from that, the stress of living our lives can bring about depression.

Psychotropic medication to treat "unhappiness" doesn't seem right. It takes a toll on the body.

What about you? Is life treating you ok? Why are you in a spiritual forum? I come here mainly to talk to myself. Alan Watts said that this is a sign of madness. What do you think?

[sree]

Jun 29, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.       

 

You misunderstood. That's not how I used the term 'selfish'. Ultimately, there is no separation. Which means there are no others. That's what oneness means. There is only THIS. And THIS manifests in a myriad of ways, shapes and flavors and perspectives and you have access to all of that because ultimately, YOU are THAT.

So of course you can feel the pain of another, you can even sympathize or empathize with them and start feeling the same way (i.e. don a similar perspective). However, the sages don't show sympathy, they rather show compassion. (i.e. they acknowledge the perspective of the other, but they keep their own perspective). They see the other in pain, they acknowledge their pain but they don't feel pain because of that because they don't join them in their pain. They know better. They see it for what it is, someone out of alignment, seemingly cut of from their Source (which is bogus). If they would sympathize or empathize, they would see the other in pain, acknowledge their pain and then join them in their pain. And then they would have nothing to give other than more pain because they too would feel cut of from their Source (which is bogus).

Everyone just has to deal with this in their own way. Watch the movie The Road Home (1999) by Zhang Yimou. It's an excellent movie and it may put things into perspective for you. On the one hand, you are alone with your grief and no one can help you there. Even Esther, who had been channeling Abraham for like 30 years, making fun about death and calling it disrespectfully croaking, was devastated for months after Jerry died. It actually took her years to not tear up anymore anytime someone mentioned Jerry or something reminded her of Jerry. At some point she realized though that she felt more sorry about herself than Jerry and that that was no way of being in this world. And that realization changed everything for her. 

Said, that, notice how you keep creating unnecessary pain for yourself by speculating how you would feel in such a situation. What's up with that kind of self-torture? That's playing the "what if..." game to your disadvantage. You could as well play the "what if..." game to your advantage, you know?! Think about how that would look like, what kind of thoughts would you have, what would you say to yourself, how would it make you feel if you would play the "what if..." game to your advantage on this topic of grief?

Anyway, not an easy situation, especially when you don't know about this emotional scale stuff or alignment. I've had a similar situation with close family a few years back. It was quite shocking, actually, seeing someone you know as very self-confident and in charge of their life and a respected authority figure by many, suddenly reduced to a heap of tears, totally crushed and withering away. However, what I notice at the funeral, these rites actually do help people refocus, especially here in Asia where funerals are a huge event and where the entire procedure lasts weeks if not months. Abe often said that funerals are not for the dead, they are for the ones that are left behind. And that suddenly made a lot of sense. So bottom line, grief is an individual thing and no one can help you there. But the topic of grief is a universal thing. People all over the world, in all cultures have that experience, and they all have a characteristic way of dealing with it. So on the one hand, you are on your own with this, on the other hand, you are not alone with this either. You will realize that when you watch the movie. It's one of those experience, like falling in love (which is on the other end of the spectrum), that are universal and that transcend culture and time. A teenager for the first time in love in America is not different from a teenager in love in Asia or Africa or Europe. It's the same state of being. Similar with grief. And here it usually becomes painfully obvious that alignment is all you can ever count on. And that without alignment, you've got nothing and nothing is worth anything. So as SDP mentioned in another thread, these situations are sometimes great opportunities that can shake one out of the consensus trance.

Yes, “The Road Home” is a great movie. Why do you think it would put things in perspective for me? The love relationship between the country girl and the teacher defines the ultimate union between two personal selves. The devotion of the girl manifests the poison of Maya. Do I condemn it? No. Life is what it is. I chose to step away from it.

How many times do I have to confess in this forum that I live an unconventional life, solitary and alone with no personal relationships? Conventional life is not a skillfully contrived Zhang Yimou movie. The Chinese rural funeral is pretty grotesque. I attended one. Have you?

[sree]

Jun 29, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.       

 

You misunderstood. That's not how I used the term 'selfish'. Ultimately, there is no separation. Which means there are no others. That's what oneness means. There is only THIS. And THIS manifests in a myriad of ways, shapes and flavors and perspectives and you have access to all of that because ultimately, YOU are THAT.

I understand you very well. What you are telling me is your personal perspective, and it could well be your actual state of being. Mine is a different personal perspective consistent with that of the practical mundane world in which I live.

You may be THAT but Joe Biden is not THAT, and neither is Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping.

Spirituality that has no practical relevance is a kind of madness, “a world of abstract thought”, as you put it. Are those politicians crazy? Yes. And so are we.

[sree]

Jun 29, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT -5 sree said:

Yesterday evening, my neighbor called out to me over the fence and told me that his wife, Martha, has passed away. He looked like a wreck - rings around his heavy-lidded eyes, probably from lack of sleep and weeping for days.  The heaviness that came over me still remains, and I thought of passing the grief to you for sharing. No matter what Reefs says, I can't accept that each of us can only have a perspective of one's own state of being.

I have taken care to avoid personal relationships and spare myself the grief of losing loved ones. Mom, dad, wife, kids are products of culture. When they form part of your world, they become an extension of yourself. Life is a war zone of human pain. I keep the target small, limiting it to my solitary self.

You went through the tough experience of watching your parents suffer. Losing a wife, one who has borne you offspring and shared life with you, watching her suffer and die, has to be a lot worse.       

 

So of course you can feel the pain of another, you can even sympathize or empathize with them and start feeling the same way (i.e. don a similar perspective). However, the sages don't show sympathy, they rather show compassion. (i.e. they acknowledge the perspective of the other, but they keep their own perspective). They see the other in pain, they acknowledge their pain but they don't feel pain because of that because they don't join them in their pain. They know better. They see it for what it is, someone out of alignment, seemingly cut of from their Source (which is bogus). If they would sympathize or empathize, they would see the other in pain, acknowledge their pain and then join them in their pain. And then they would have nothing to give other than more pain because they too would feel cut of from their Source (which is bogus).

I have been invited to join them in their pain. Yesterday, my neighbor knocked on my front door to ask for my email. Today, I received from him an invitation to Martha’s “Celebration of Life” gathering.

I don’t do funerals. Since giving up the conventional life some ten years ago, I have not attended any celebration of either birth or death.

RSVP, the invite said. This puts me on the spot. Will it break his heart if I ignore his invite? No. It just makes me feel like a sonovabitch to do that. I bet stardustpilgrim (if he were in my position) would reply to confirm his attendance regardless of his realization and transformation from a cultural self to an actual living being. What about you?

How would you respond if your father and mother passed away and you are expected not just to attend but also attend to their funerals like wally did?

Spiritual talk in an internet forum is cheap if it is not backed up by action in real life.

[Reefs]

Jun 30, 2022 12:41:12 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 29, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5 Reefs said:

So of course you can feel the pain of another, you can even sympathize or empathize with them and start feeling the same way (i.e. don a similar perspective). However, the sages don't show sympathy, they rather show compassion. (i.e. they acknowledge the perspective of the other, but they keep their own perspective). They see the other in pain, they acknowledge their pain but they don't feel pain because of that because they don't join them in their pain. They know better. They see it for what it is, someone out of alignment, seemingly cut of from their Source (which is bogus). If they would sympathize or empathize, they would see the other in pain, acknowledge their pain and then join them in their pain. And then they would have nothing to give other than more pain because they too would feel cut of from their Source (which is bogus).

I have been invited to join them in their pain. Yesterday, my neighbor knocked on my front door to ask for my email. Today, I received from him an invitation to Martha’s “Celebration of Life” gathering.

I don’t do funerals. Since giving up the conventional life some ten years ago, I have not attended any celebration of either birth or death.

RSVP, the invite said. This puts me on the spot. Will it break his heart if I ignore his invite? No. It just makes me feel like a sonovabitch to do that. I bet stardustpilgrim (if he were in my position) would reply to confirm his attendance regardless of his realization and transformation from a cultural self to an actual living being. What about you?

How would you respond if your father and mother passed away and you are expected not just to attend but also attend to their funerals like wally did?

Spiritual talk in an internet forum is cheap if it is not backed up by action in real life.

I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. Making plans for all possible eventualities of life that may or may not actually happen is the very definition of living in one's head, instead of the real world. It also makes you look like a control freak. What are you afraid of? Why don't you dare to live fully?

You see, your post contains a whole collection of bogus thoughts and beliefs which you use as the basis for your decision making. No wonder you are confused, unhappy and sad. Because your approach to life isn't really working. I suggest try a different approach, one that is actually working. 

[Deleted]

Jun 30, 2022 12:41:12 GMT -5 sree said:

Jun 29, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5 Reefs said:

So of course you can feel the pain of another, you can even sympathize or empathize with them and start feeling the same way (i.e. don a similar perspective). However, the sages don't show sympathy, they rather show compassion. (i.e. they acknowledge the perspective of the other, but they keep their own perspective). They see the other in pain, they acknowledge their pain but they don't feel pain because of that because they don't join them in their pain. They know better. They see it for what it is, someone out of alignment, seemingly cut of from their Source (which is bogus). If they would sympathize or empathize, they would see the other in pain, acknowledge their pain and then join them in their pain. And then they would have nothing to give other than more pain because they too would feel cut of from their Source (which is bogus).

I have been invited to join them in their pain. Yesterday, my neighbor knocked on my front door to ask for my email. Today, I received from him an invitation to Martha’s “Celebration of Life” gathering.

I don’t do funerals. Since giving up the conventional life some ten years ago, I have not attended any celebration of either birth or death.

RSVP, the invite said. This puts me on the spot. Will it break his heart if I ignore his invite? No. It just makes me feel like a sonovabitch to do that. I bet stardustpilgrim (if he were in my position) would reply to confirm his attendance regardless of his realization and transformation from a cultural self to an actual living being. What about you?

How would you respond if your father and mother passed away and you are expected not just to attend but also attend to their funerals like wally did?

Spiritual talk in an internet forum is cheap if it is not backed up by action in real life.

Martha's husband is only inviting you because he cares about you and he thought that you cared about him and his wife.