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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 12:13:16 GMT -5
I suspect that most have some framework against which right/wrong true/false is judged. For me those are barriers which are best trancended as there may always be something hidden which later surfaces to contradict what one believed to be right or true. One is still left with resonance, a vibration between matching frequencies, in this case between the vibration of the seeker and the vibration of the solution found to the search. This may not be with just one teacher, speaker, or writer. But from many different sources, including what may be ones own insights. What resonates may evolve and may or may not change over time. This doesn't penetrate to inavalan's question. Still trolling .... |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 12:52:20 GMT -5
I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". As Amit, SDP, and others have noted, every path is slightly (or majorly) different because every human is unique. I know several people, like this character, who never searched for a teacher but found the truth by contemplating various existential questions. In several of these cases, a direct experience revealed the living truth and that pointed in a particular direction that was later corroborated by various sages or books in the non-duality traditions. All it takes is one glimpse of the Infinite to make one realize that reality is NOT what most people imagine it to be. People without direct experiences or insights into what's going on are at a much greater disadvantage, and whether or not they find a good teacher can sometimes just be the luck of the draw. As Amit stated, most people in that position tend to resonate with particular teachings or teachers they hear about, and that's the direction they go. Countless people, for example, have read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now," and strongly resonated with the words in that book. In some cases that was the first introduction to non-duality that they had, and that's fortunate because he's a teacher who offers extremely good pointers. People use the same words meaning different things. To me, "resonate" means "alike", in contexts like this. To me, "intuition" is desirable, meaning "something you know, but don't know how". You resonate with people and concepts that are like you now, not like what/how you should be. That resonance adds to your limiting beliefs. I don't like Tolle (as much as I heard him talking). I believe that the best way to acquire knowledge and guidance (because ultimately we need guidance much more than knowledge) is to tap into your inner source. I also believe that self-hypnosis is the best tool to access that inner source, but that is only as good as you can leave aside all your beliefs and expectations when you tap it. Surely, people are different, with different needs, but with zillions of gurus, with different beliefs, the chance to get the winning ticket is extremely small. |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 13:00:50 GMT -5
This doesn't penetrate to inavalan's question. Still trolling .... In the absense of any interest in the response to your question, lets leave it there. Be well and good luck. |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 13:07:05 GMT -5
In the absense of any interest in the response to your question, lets leave it there. Be well and good luck. I don't think it is up to you to tell me what to do. Be nice ... The proper formulation is: I'll leave it there. Your reply showed a different attitude. |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 13:25:14 GMT -5
In the absense of any interest in the response to your question, lets leave it there. Be well and good luck. I don't think it is up to you to tell me what to do. Be nice ... The proper formulation is: I'll leave it there. Your reply showed a different attitude. You have not responded to my reply to the question you asked, so I am done with this. Good luck. |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 13:36:22 GMT -5
I don't think it is up to you to tell me what to do. Be nice ... The proper formulation is: I'll leave it there. Your reply showed a different attitude. You have not responded to my reply to the question you asked, so I am done with this. Good luck. Your last post directed to me didn't seem to ask any question: But I expressed my opinion about resonance in my reply to another poster (zendancer): This becomes tiring, and time consuming. |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 13:39:32 GMT -5
You have not responded to my reply to the question you asked, so I am done with this. Good luck. Your last post directed to me didn't seem to ask any question: But I expressed my opinion about resonance in my reply to another poster (zendancer): This becomes tiring, and time consuming. Agreed. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 18, 2020 13:45:42 GMT -5
- “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime” is a quote from the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism.
Instead of hypnotizing the "humble seeker", a wise guru should teach him to hypnotize himself. - "I know that I know nothing" is a saying derived from Plato's account of the Greek philosopher Socrates. It is also called the Socratic paradox. The phrase is not one that Socrates himself is ever recorded as saying.
A wise guru should leave room for distortions in his knowledge. .....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. Yes, in another dialog Niz expressed the opinion that most "surrender's to the guru" don't turn out all that well. I find it to have been one of his most powerful dialogs: (starting at para 20, dialog #92, "Go Beyond the I-am-the-body Idea" in I AM THAT)
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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 13:50:29 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. Yes, in another dialog Niz expressed the opinion that most "surrender's to the guru" don't turn out all that well. I find it to have been one of his most powerful dialogs: (starting at para 20, dialog #92, "Go Beyond the I-am-the-body Idea" in I AM THAT)
Sounds good. Thanks. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 18, 2020 14:09:56 GMT -5
As Amit, SDP, and others have noted, every path is slightly (or majorly) different because every human is unique. I know several people, like this character, who never searched for a teacher but found the truth by contemplating various existential questions. In several of these cases, a direct experience revealed the living truth and that pointed in a particular direction that was later corroborated by various sages or books in the non-duality traditions. All it takes is one glimpse of the Infinite to make one realize that reality is NOT what most people imagine it to be. People without direct experiences or insights into what's going on are at a much greater disadvantage, and whether or not they find a good teacher can sometimes just be the luck of the draw. As Amit stated, most people in that position tend to resonate with particular teachings or teachers they hear about, and that's the direction they go. Countless people, for example, have read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now," and strongly resonated with the words in that book. In some cases that was the first introduction to non-duality that they had, and that's fortunate because he's a teacher who offers extremely good pointers. People use the same words meaning different things. To me, "resonate" means "alike", in contexts like this. To me, "intuition" is desirable, meaning "something you know, but don't know how". You resonate with people and concepts that are like you now, not like what/how you should be. That resonance adds to your limiting beliefs. I don't like Tolle (as much as I heard him talking). I believe that the best way to acquire knowledge and guidance (because ultimately we need guidance much more than knowledge) is to tap into your inner source. I also believe that self-hypnosis is the best tool to access that inner source, but that is only as good as you can leave aside all your beliefs and expectations when you tap it. Surely, people are different, with different needs, but with zillions of gurus, with different beliefs, the chance to get the winning ticket is extremely small. Sure, intuition is critical as is one's inner source, but I'm not sure what you mean by self hypnosis. Can you explain what you mean by that phrase? The way I use the term "truth" it has nothing to do with beliefs; it involves seeing what is undoubtable and self evident. Beliefs are generally strongly-held ideas about reality, but fortunately most sages in the non-duality traditions tell people not to believe anything they say until they have verified the truth for themselves. I can't think of a single well-known sage who hasn't emphasized that point. Finding the truth using pointers is very much like the scientific method. A person who has never seen the planet Saturn has no direct experience upon which to evaluate a truth claim about it. An astronomer can issue admonitions, which are much like injunctions, such as: 1. Obtain a telescope 2. Learn to operate it 3. Focus it upon a particular object in the sky in a particular location at a particular time 4. Then take a look. If one follows the injunctions, one acquires direct experience of what is seen and then has a basis for agreeing or disagreeing with any truth claims about the existence of a planet with rings around it. ITSW, sages issue injunctions, such as: 1. Shift attention away from thoughts to direct sensory perception 2. Contemplate what you want to know in silence 3. Be still (Psalms 46:10) 4. Enquire into the nature of what sees, hears, feels, thinks, etc. 5. Turn attention away from intellectual knowing (episteme) to direct knowing (gnosis) 6. Become like a small child 7. Look within etc. etc. People who follow such injunctions with earnestness usually have realizations that then inform the intellect via direct experience. They then have a basis for judging the veracity of various existential truth claims. |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 14:10:53 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. Yes, in another dialog Niz expressed the opinion that most "surrender's to the guru" don't turn out all that well. I find it to have been one of his most powerful dialogs: (starting at para 20, dialog #92, "Go Beyond the I-am-the-body Idea" in I AM THAT)
Very good.Thanks L. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 18, 2020 14:12:57 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. Yes, in another dialog Niz expressed the opinion that most "surrender's to the guru" don't turn out all that well. I find it to have been one of his most powerful dialogs: (starting at para 20, dialog #92, "Go Beyond the I-am-the-body Idea" in I AM THAT)
Another great quote. I recently skimmed through "I Am THAT" searching for references to samadhi, but I missed this quote entirely. Surely it's one of his best. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 18, 2020 15:41:35 GMT -5
Yes, in another dialog Niz expressed the opinion that most "surrender's to the guru" don't turn out all that well. I find it to have been one of his most powerful dialogs: (starting at para 20, dialog #92, "Go Beyond the I-am-the-body Idea" in I AM THAT)
Another great quote. I recently skimmed through "I Am THAT" searching for references to samadhi, but I missed this quote entirely. Surely it's one of his best. I've sometimes wondered if anyone has ever tried to make a play based on these dialogs. It could alternate between scenes which would tell a linear story about his guru/lineage and his life, with re-enactments of some selection of the discourse. Probably wouldn't be a box office success, but it might wind up gathering a cult following like the Grateful Dead.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 18, 2020 16:01:19 GMT -5
The question was "How do people decide what is right to follow". Various ways by which persons may decide to follow are adddressed in the reply you mention. Maybe inavalan can clarify the intended question. Twice. I guess I don't know what trolling is. (Anybody like to help me on this? ... honestly). |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 18, 2020 16:11:36 GMT -5
People use the same words meaning different things. To me, "resonate" means "alike", in contexts like this. To me, "intuition" is desirable, meaning "something you know, but don't know how". You resonate with people and concepts that are like you now, not like what/how you should be. That resonance adds to your limiting beliefs. I don't like Tolle (as much as I heard him talking). I believe that the best way to acquire knowledge and guidance (because ultimately we need guidance much more than knowledge) is to tap into your inner source. I also believe that self-hypnosis is the best tool to access that inner source, but that is only as good as you can leave aside all your beliefs and expectations when you tap it. Surely, people are different, with different needs, but with zillions of gurus, with different beliefs, the chance to get the winning ticket is extremely small. Sure, intuition is critical as is one's inner source, but I'm not sure what you mean by self hypnosis. Can you explain what you mean by that phrase? The way I use the term "truth" it has nothing to do with beliefs; it involves seeing what is undoubtable and self evident. Beliefs are generally strongly-held ideas about reality, but fortunately most sages in the non-duality traditions tell people not to believe anything they say until they have verified the truth for themselves. I can't think of a single well-known sage who hasn't emphasized that point. Finding the truth using pointers is very much like the scientific method. A person who has never seen the planet Saturn has no direct experience upon which to evaluate a truth claim about it. An astronomer can issue admonitions, which are much like injunctions, such as: 1. Obtain a telescope 2. Learn to operate it 3. Focus it upon a particular object in the sky in a particular location at a particular time 4. Then take a look. If one follows the injunctions, one acquires direct experience of what is seen and then has a basis for agreeing or disagreeing with any truth claims about the existence of a planet with rings around it. ITSW, sages issue injunctions, such as: 1. Shift attention away from thoughts to direct sensory perception 2. Contemplate what you want to know in silence 3. Be still (Psalms 46:10) 4. Enquire into the nature of what sees, hears, feels, thinks, etc. 5. Turn attention away from intellectual knowing (episteme) to direct knowing (gnosis) 6. Become like a small child 7. Look within etc. etc. People who follow such injunctions with earnestness usually have realizations that then inform the intellect via direct experience. They then have a basis for judging the veracity of various existential truth claims. I make a distinction between intuition, and inner source of knowledge and guidance. To me, intuition is a feature, a capability, like intellect, emotions, instinct. Some may call it a sense. It is the physical manifestation of an inner sense of our multi-dimensional personalities. My inner source of knowledge and guidance has two parts: an inner guide (a non-physical personality unrelated to my personality or entity), and my subconscious (that is the repository of all knowledge and experience my personality ever acquired; "ever" in terms of psychological time, not clock-time) which ties together all the selves of my personality. Regarding self-hypnosis, I'm pasting here some past posts that I believe describe the best what I do, and what anybody can do if so inclined. |
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