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Post by amit on Jul 16, 2020 14:37:30 GMT -5
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageous position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here.
My copy has been lost
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Post by laughter on Jul 17, 2020 12:10:14 GMT -5
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageous position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here. My copy has been lost Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
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Post by amit on Jul 17, 2020 13:19:13 GMT -5
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageous position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here. My copy has been lost Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
Yes. Thank you so much. I have been trying to find that description of fast realization (Trust) for ages. Thanks very much L. This is the basis of most Neo Advaita, sometimes referred to as the Direct approach. It was always known by some but was not widely mentioned because it was felt that the time was not right. When it was more widely spread, it was largely invalidated by tradition and remains untrusted, so perhaps it was not the right time for it to be spread more widely, yet remains suitable for the type of character (lacking conviction for the search) described by Niz. It is hoped that such characters have not been put off the fast approach by invalidation. Niz described both the fast and slow realization as appopriate depending on the character of the seeker. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 17, 2020 13:38:09 GMT -5
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageous position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here. My copy has been lost Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
Great quote! |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 17, 2020 17:11:29 GMT -5
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageous position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here. My copy has been lost Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
- “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime” is a quote from the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism.
Instead of hypnotizing the "humble seeker", a wise guru should teach him to hypnotize himself. - "I know that I know nothing" is a saying derived from Plato's account of the Greek philosopher Socrates. It is also called the Socratic paradox. The phrase is not one that Socrates himself is ever recorded as saying.
A wise guru should leave room for distortions in his knowledge. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 17, 2020 17:17:28 GMT -5
Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
Great quote! Thanks for the kind word ZD.  |
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Post by laughter on Jul 17, 2020 17:20:08 GMT -5
Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
Yes. Thank you so much. I have been trying to find that description of fast realization (Trust) for ages. Thanks very much L. This is the basis of most Neo Advaita, sometimes referred to as the Direct approach. It was always known by some but was not widely mentioned because it was felt that the time was not right. When it was more widely spread, it was largely invalidated by tradition and remains untrusted, so perhaps it was not the right time for it to be spread more widely, yet remains suitable for the type of character (lacking conviction for the search) described by Niz. It is hoped that such characters have not been put off the fast approach by invalidation. Niz described both the fast and slow realization as appopriate depending on the character of the seeker. My pleasure amit. This idea of trusting what the guru has to say is one that seems to me stem from traditional AV. Niz had a spiritual lineage - to which he was never confirmed, as his teacher died before Niz was done seeking, and he explains his own experience in terms of how he trusted what his guru told him. |
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Post by amit on Jul 17, 2020 20:49:59 GMT -5
Perhaps, I AM THAT #83, "The True Guru"? (starting at para 31)
- “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime” is a quote from the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism.
Instead of hypnotizing the "humble seeker", a wise guru should teach him to hypnotize himself. - "I know that I know nothing" is a saying derived from Plato's account of the Greek philosopher Socrates. It is also called the Socratic paradox. The phrase is not one that Socrates himself is ever recorded as saying.
A wise guru should leave room for distortions in his knowledge. .....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 17, 2020 22:00:06 GMT -5
- “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime” is a quote from the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism.
Instead of hypnotizing the "humble seeker", a wise guru should teach him to hypnotize himself. - "I know that I know nothing" is a saying derived from Plato's account of the Greek philosopher Socrates. It is also called the Socratic paradox. The phrase is not one that Socrates himself is ever recorded as saying.
A wise guru should leave room for distortions in his knowledge. .....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 0:00:52 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, to contradict what one beli3vws to be right or tue. and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". I suspect that most have some framework against which right/wrong true/false is judged. For me those are barriers which are best trancended as there may always be something hidden which later surfaces to contradict what one believed to be right or true. One is still left with resonance, a vibration between matching frequencies, in this case between the vibration of the seeker and the vibration of the solution found to the search. This may not be with just one teacher, speaker, or writer. But from many different sources, including what may be ones own insights. What resonates may evolve and may or may not change over time. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 18, 2020 7:25:27 GMT -5
I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, to contradict what one beli3vws to be right or tue. and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". I suspect that most have some framework against which right/wrong true/false is judged. For me those are barriers which are best trancended as there may always be something hidden which later surfaces to contradict what one believed to be right or true. One is still left with resonance, a vibration between matching frequencies, in this case between the vibration of the seeker and the vibration of the solution found to the search. This may not be with just one teacher, speaker, or writer. But from many different sources, including what may be ones own insights. What resonates may evolve and may or may not change over time. This doesn't penetrate to inavalan's question. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 18, 2020 7:37:36 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". A most excellent question (maybe the best question ever asked on ST's). When NASA launched the Hubble Space Telescope and got back the first pictures, they were out of focus. The whole enterprise was a fiasco. They realized the main mirror was not ground to the precision necessary, it was very slightly off. What had happened? The mirror was not sufficiently tested before launch. How could that possibly have happened? The mirror was not directly tested, it was tested with an instrument. After the first pictures came back out of focus, upon investigation, they discovered the instrument used to measure the curve of the mirror, before launch, was itself defective. (Of course a solution was devised, a correcting lens, and later a repair mission with hours of space walk fixed the broken Hubble). www.nasa.gov/content/hubbles-mirror-flaw |
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Post by amit on Jul 18, 2020 7:51:05 GMT -5
I suspect that most have some framework against which right/wrong true/false is judged. For me those are barriers which are best trancended as there may always be something hidden which later surfaces to contradict what one believed to be right or true. One is still left with resonance, a vibration between matching frequencies, in this case between the vibration of the seeker and the vibration of the solution found to the search. This may not be with just one teacher, speaker, or writer. But from many different sources, including what may be ones own insights. What resonates may evolve and may or may not change over time. This doesn't penetrate to inavalan's question. The question was about how do people decide to follow, and about what is right. Various ways by which persons may decide are adddressed in the reply. What is your answer? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 18, 2020 7:55:29 GMT -5
This doesn't penetrate to inavalan's question. The question was "How do people decide what is right to follow". Various ways by which persons may decide to follow are adddressed in the reply you mention. Maybe inavalan can clarify the intended question. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 18, 2020 10:23:35 GMT -5
.....or at the very least acknowledge, as Niz does, that characters vary so one size does not fit all, and that there is room for different approaches. I'm curious ... How does one know whom to follow? How do you know which guru, or dogma, is right? Once you've started to look for something you were told there is, you already have expectations, and you create what you expect. That includes "nothing". As Amit, SDP, and others have noted, every path is slightly (or majorly) different because every human is unique. I know several people, like this character, who never searched for a teacher but found the truth by contemplating various existential questions. In several of these cases, a direct experience revealed the living truth and that pointed in a particular direction that was later corroborated by various sages or books in the non-duality traditions. All it takes is one glimpse of the Infinite to make one realize that reality is NOT what most people imagine it to be. People without direct experiences or insights into what's going on are at a much greater disadvantage, and whether or not they find a good teacher can sometimes just be the luck of the draw. As Amit stated, most people in that position tend to resonate with particular teachings or teachers they hear about, and that's the direction they go. Countless people, for example, have read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now," and strongly resonated with the words in that book. In some cases that was the first introduction to non-duality that they had, and that's fortunate because he's a teacher who offers extremely good pointers. |
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