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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 10:57:03 GMT -5
By "experience" I assume that you're referring to a kensho-like non-dual event during which oneness is either glimpsed or seen with extreme clarity. Those kinds of events vary a great deal in depth from very shallow to unutteringly profound. The deep ones are, as you say, mind-boggling in nature, and afterwards people usually spend a fair amount of time trying to understand what happened in order to place the event into some sort of sensible context. Reefs, I, and others, have speculated about the sequence of events that usually leads to non-abidance in mind (sahaja samadhi). If one goes far enough and attains a sufficient degree of realization, the Big Picture is seen, and one can then relax and live an ordinary life free from seeking anything or questioning anything. People in that category are usually able to discern whether the people they meet are still rowing a boat across the Buddha's lake, or whether they have arrived on the other shore and left the boat behind. Here are just a few of the realizations that are common on the pathless path: 1. Realizing that reality is not what it was imagined to be 2. Realizing that there are no such things as time or space 3. Realizing that reality is unified, infinite, aware, and intellectually incomprehensible 4. Realizing that there's a difference between relative meaning and absolute meaning 5. Realizing that there's a difference between what things are and how they are imagined 6. Realizing how various thoughts separat because all is being seen as Oneness manifest e one from the direct perception of "what is" 7. Realizing that who one is is not what was once imagined 8. Realizing that what one is is beyond birth or death The nondual event is the resonanance with the concept All is One which as you say varies in intensity. Non abidance in mind is not usually a significant factor, unless having traditional beliefs, because mind is simply seen as just another example of Oneness manifesty and therefore, being Oneness, is in no way a disconnection. It is mainly about how suffering can be Oneness manifest. So the resolution is to include suffering as Oneness manifest. Suffering depends on circumstances often unknown so does not necessarily end. All that ends is there is no longer the additional suffering of feeling disconnected from Oneness whilst suffering is apparant. I like to offer a distinction between pain and suffering. Much suffering is a secondary creation of various movements of mind on top of pain. The distinction loses it's efficacy out at the extremes.
Have you had the experience of having helped precipitate these resonance, out at your camp grounds?
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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 10:59:22 GMT -5
The nondual event is the resonanance with the concept All is One which as you say varies in intensity. Non abidance in mind is not usually a significant factor, unless having traditional beliefs, because mind is simply seen as just another example of Oneness manifests and therefore, being Oneness, is in no way a disconnection. It is mainly about how suffering can be Oneness manifest. So the resolution is to include suffering as Oneness manifest. Suffering depends on circumstances often unknown so does not necessarily end. All that ends is there is no longer the additional suffering of feeling disconnected from Oneness whilst suffering is apparent.Once attention is back in feeling there is no separation from Wholeness anyway. Breathing is always a direct route into feeling. But breathing might not lead to a sense of oneness if there is extreme pain.
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Post by amit on Jun 20, 2020 11:04:54 GMT -5
There is already no separation from Wholeness (Oneness) once mind is accepted as totally Oneness manifest. There is nothing else available, other than Oneness, to manifest as Mind. Wholeness doesn't do any manifesting it already is this. When the mind picks up the idea that it is this and starts rolling it around, then the appearance of suffering has happened. If you dont believe that duality is appearing then yes there is no Oneness manifesting as that appearance of separation. However if you look around and see the many things you may have a diffeent point of view.
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Post by amit on Jun 20, 2020 11:17:32 GMT -5
The nondual event is the resonanance with the concept All is One which as you say varies in intensity. Non abidance in mind is not usually a significant factor, unless having traditional beliefs, because mind is simply seen as just another example of Oneness manifesty and therefore, being Oneness, is in no way a disconnection. It is mainly about how suffering can be Oneness manifest. So the resolution is to include suffering as Oneness manifest. Suffering depends on circumstances often unknown so does not necessarily end. All that ends is there is no longer the additional suffering of feeling disconnected from Oneness whilst suffering is apparant. I like to offer a distinction between pain and suffering. Much suffering is a secondary creation of various movements of mind on top of pain. The distinction loses it's efficacy out at the extremes.
Have you had the experience of having helped precipitate these resonance, out at your camp grounds? Yes a group of friends meet at our camp in the summer, and at our home in the winter. Some are Neo Advaita I would say and others traditional, and some are New Age, Muslims, and Christans. All interested in the spiritual search, and some repeort the event we have been discussing. The word usually used is suffering when addressing concerns.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 11:31:35 GMT -5
Once attention is back in feeling there is no separation from Wholeness anyway. Breathing is always a direct route into feeling. But breathing might not lead to a sense of oneness if there is extreme pain. One man's pain is another man's growth.
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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 11:36:08 GMT -5
But breathing might not lead to a sense of oneness if there is extreme pain. One man's pain is another man's growth. Maybe.
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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 11:37:01 GMT -5
I like to offer a distinction between pain and suffering. Much suffering is a secondary creation of various movements of mind on top of pain. The distinction loses it's efficacy out at the extremes.
Have you had the experience of having helped precipitate these resonance, out at your camp grounds? Yes a group of friends meet at our camp in the summer, and at our home in the winter. Some are Neo Advaita I would say and others traditional, and some are New Age, Muslims, and Christans. All interested in the spiritual search, and some repeort the event we have been discussing. The word usually used is suffering when addressing concerns. You should print up a brochure about this!
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Post by amit on Jun 20, 2020 11:56:42 GMT -5
Yes a group of friends meet at our camp in the summer, and at our home in the winter. Some are Neo Advaita I would say and others traditional, and some are New Age, Muslims, and Christans. All interested in the spiritual search, and some repeort the event we have been discussing. The word usually used is suffering when addressing concerns. You should print up a brochure about this! The term "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind. There is enough angst already but mostly good humoured:)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 12:12:19 GMT -5
One man's pain is another man's growth. Maybe. One man's growth might be another man's pain.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 12:38:02 GMT -5
Wholeness doesn't do any manifesting it already is this. When the mind picks up the idea that it is this and starts rolling it around, then the appearance of suffering has happened. If you don't believe that duality is appearing then yes there is no Oneness manifesting as that appearance of separation. However if you look around and see the many things you may have a different point of view. What do you mean by the word duality, please?
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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 21:41:15 GMT -5
You should print up a brochure about this! The term "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind. There is enough angst already but mostly good humoured:) I'm reminded of this, but, on the flip side, even just talking about where nonduality points, even superficially, seems to me to have the potential to trigger a catharsis.
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Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2020 21:43:16 GMT -5
Maybe. One man's growth might be another man's pain. Definitely.
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Post by amit on Jun 21, 2020 2:40:02 GMT -5
The term "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind. There is enough angst already but mostly good humoured:) I'm reminded of this, but, on the flip side, even just talking about where nonduality points, even superficially, seems to me to have the potential to trigger a catharsis. Agreed. Around 6 people once a week seems to be how folk want it at the moment. Will see if someone wants to take on more. So far its just been by word of mouth.
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Post by amit on Jun 21, 2020 3:04:03 GMT -5
If you don't believe that duality is appearing then yes there is no Oneness manifesting as that appearance of separation. However if you look around and see the many things you may have a different point of view. What do you mean by the word duality, please? By Duality I mean the appearance of the very solid looking separate things we see around us, including ourselves. See the initial post for how nonduality sees duality as only an appearance of difference, where there is no difference whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 4:27:30 GMT -5
What do you mean by the word duality, please? By Duality I mean the appearance of the very solid looking separate things we see around us, including ourselves. See the initial post for how nonduality sees duality as only an appearance of difference, where there is no difference whatsoever. I find it easier to drop into Quantum descriptions. When atoms are perceived as particles then there is a solid Earth, with it's distinct and beautiful boundaries being experienced. When atoms are fluid and sublime, perception is bathed in perfection which is direct, intimate and whole.
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