|
|
Post by Peter on May 1, 2020 4:02:05 GMT -5
I'm going through quite an intense time at the moment between therapy, spiritual work with my wife and a men's support group. One group is encouraging me to get connected to my higher power and the other wants me to get in touch with my inner child. Meditating the other day I put the Higher Power directly in contact with the Inner Child and that felt very integrating, although quite busy in there! I realised that the state I get into when I feel connected to a Higher Power is one I'm familiar with from meditation. It's a coming home the self...I've spoken about this before being like watching a film in the cinema and being totally in the movie and then something bringing your attention back to your immediate surrounding and that wider context of both sitting in a cinema AND watching a movie comes into play. The Buddhists might call it Access Concentration and Gurdjieff called " Self Remembering". Gurdjieff's point is this: How can anyone achieve anything if they can't remember the next day, what they decided to do the day before? So I decided to re-engage with a practice I've used from time to time of setting a consciousness trigger, where you try to associate some event to bring about some particular state of mind. What I picked was walking through a door. I decided that every time I walk through a door I'm going to come back to myself and touch the door frame. And stone me, 4 days in to making that decision I hadn't touched a single door frame. I had a great meditation this morning - doing a daily 40 minute practice alternating each day between Mindfulness of Breathing and Meta Bhavanna - and I was SO concentrated. Really focused. And god dammit, in the time it took me to get off my stool and walk out the door I forgot to touch the door frame! Off in a total day dream about work or what I was having for breakfast or something. What came to me standing in the kitchen is that ideally, once I've come back to myself, I'd stay there. And then I wouldn't have trouble remembering to touch the door frame. So I walked out the kitchen door in that state of mind and stayed with it through the garden and touched the frame of the shed door. Victory! Of course, now I need to avoid it becoming a mindless habit. Then I'll have to start remembering to NOT touch the door frame.  |
|
|
|
Post by glimmer on May 1, 2020 5:33:23 GMT -5
I have re-emerged from the tunnel. When I go back in I will forget about coming out until I re-emerge and remember. I have been resurfacing this for years. How ever tomorrow (sleep now) I will perhaps touch a door frame!
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 1, 2020 14:28:43 GMT -5
I'm going through quite an intense time at the moment between therapy, spiritual work with my wife and a men's support group. One group is encouraging me to get connected to my higher power and the other wants me to get in touch with my inner child. Meditating the other day I put the Higher Power directly in contact with the Inner Child and that felt very integrating, although quite busy in there! I realised that the state I get into when I feel connected to a Higher Power is one I'm familiar with from meditation. It's a coming home the self...I've spoken about this before being like watching a film in the cinema and being totally in the movie and then something bringing your attention back to your immediate surrounding and that wider context of both sitting in a cinema AND watching a movie comes into play. The Buddhists might call it Access Concentration and Gurdjieff called " Self Remembering". Gurdjieff's point is this: How can anyone achieve anything if they can't remember the next day, what they decided to do the day before? So I decided to re-engage with a practice I've used from time to time of setting a consciousness trigger, where you try to associate some event to bring about some particular state of mind. What I picked was walking through a door. I decided that every time I walk through a door I'm going to come back to myself and touch the door frame.
And stone me, 4 days in to making that decision I hadn't touched a single door frame.I had a great meditation this morning - doing a daily 40 minute practice alternating each day between Mindfulness of Breathing and Meta Bhavanna - and I was SO concentrated. Really focused. And god dammit, in the time it took me to get off my stool and walk out the door I forgot to touch the door frame! Off in a total day dream about work or what I was having for breakfast or something. What came to me standing in the kitchen is that ideally, once I've come back to myself, I'd stay there. And then I wouldn't have trouble remembering to touch the door frame. So I walked out the kitchen door in that state of mind and stayed with it through the garden and touched the frame of the shed door. Victory!Of course, now I need to avoid it becoming a mindless habit. Then I'll have to start remembering to NOT touch the door frame. Excellent Peter. I read your post and then went to the Self-Remembering link, an extensive quote from In Search of the Miraculous. I also read the link Ouspensky's Mistake at the end of the excerpt. That writer (Fred something) said that what Ouspensky writes about, the two arrows of attention, one pointing away and one pointing to oneself, is impossible to do. He says you can do one or the other, but not both simultaneously. It's not impossible. He then describes Ramana's Self-Inquiry as one arrow pointing exclusively back to self (Self). (Speaking to Ouspensky's Mistake discussion of Ramana and Self-Inquiry), Self-Remembering has nothing to do with thinking. Any thought is merely a reminder, and then the reminder is dropped, and the doing does not concern thought. Touching the door frame is likewise a reminder (a trigger as you say). |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 2, 2020 10:27:08 GMT -5
I'm going through quite an intense time at the moment between therapy, spiritual work with my wife and a men's support group. One group is encouraging me to get connected to my higher power and the other wants me to get in touch with my inner child. Meditating the other day I put the Higher Power directly in contact with the Inner Child and that felt very integrating, although quite busy in there! I realised that the state I get into when I feel connected to a Higher Power is one I'm familiar with from meditation. It's a coming home the self...I've spoken about this before being like watching a film in the cinema and being totally in the movie and then something bringing your attention back to your immediate surrounding and that wider context of both sitting in a cinema AND watching a movie comes into play. The Buddhists might call it Access Concentration and Gurdjieff called " Self Remembering". Gurdjieff's point is this: How can anyone achieve anything if they can't remember the next day, what they decided to do the day before? So I decided to re-engage with a practice I've used from time to time of setting a consciousness trigger, where you try to associate some event to bring about some particular state of mind. What I picked was walking through a door. I decided that every time I walk through a door I'm going to come back to myself and touch the door frame. And stone me, 4 days in to making that decision I hadn't touched a single door frame. I had a great meditation this morning - doing a daily 40 minute practice alternating each day between Mindfulness of Breathing and Meta Bhavanna - and I was SO concentrated. Really focused. And god dammit, in the time it took me to get off my stool and walk out the door I forgot to touch the door frame! Off in a total day dream about work or what I was having for breakfast or something. What came to me standing in the kitchen is that ideally, once I've come back to myself, I'd stay there. And then I wouldn't have trouble remembering to touch the door frame. So I walked out the kitchen door in that state of mind and stayed with it through the garden and touched the frame of the shed door. Victory! Of course, now I need to avoid it becoming a mindless habit. Then I'll have to start remembering to NOT touch the door frame. "Man must at all times mathematically hear, mathematically understand, mathematically answer, " Gurdjieff told the Rope. "Only this is life. Always must be with his I. Only then is he man without quotation marks. No matter what he have in surroundings--people, noise, alcohol--he must always mathematically understand; never lose self even when drunk. He can be drunk, but never his I be drunk." He had many ways of expressing this personal ethic. "Fulfill your obligation with consciousness," he said within Kathryn's hearing. "If you wash plates, your obligation is to wash plates. If you doctor, your obligation is to cure. If you are a writer, obligation is to write. Not important what you are, big man or small man, not important what you do. Only important how you do it." |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 4, 2020 2:25:01 GMT -5
I have re-emerged from the tunnel. When I go back in I will forget about coming out until I re-emerge and remember. I have been resurfacing this for years. How ever tomorrow (sleep now) I will perhaps touch a door frame! Did you, Glimmer? I was doing a Metta Bhanava practice this morning and there's some mental discourse involved, saying something like "May they be happy, may they be well". But when I let go of that so it was just still inside my head I had a vivid sensation of having been cycling a bicycle with someone holding me steady, and then that feeling of freedom and cycling on my own - or flying even. Kept my sense of quietness and presence through a run around the park and then - *$£@(&^!!! blew it just before I reached my front door. I need to re-read that Gurdijeff article, I think he said he (or was it Ouspensky) found it nearly impossible when they started. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 4, 2020 11:42:48 GMT -5
A newcomer to Gurdjieff's circle, Dorothy Caruso, widow of the great tenor, was also invited to sit with Gurdjieff in the pantry. Shall we collect her perspective?
Gurdjieff offered me a piece of sugar. "You want to ask me something?" he said. ...I could not quickly think of any abstract or esoteric question, so instead I blurted out what had troubled me ever since I had been going to his house. "Everyone seems to have a soul except me. Haven't I any soul?" He didn't answer immediately, or look at me. He took a piece of sugar, put it in his mouth and sipped some coffee through it. Then he said, "You know what means consciousness?" "Yes," I said, "it means to know something." "No. Not to know something--to know yourself. Your 'I'. You know not your 'I' for one second in your whole life. Now I tell and you try. But very difficult. You try remember say 'I am' once every hour. You not succeed, but no matter--try. You understand?" pgs 190, 191 Gurdjieff Reconsidered, 2019 by Roger Lipsey quoted from The Unknowable Gurdjieff by M Anderson pg 181
|
|
|
|
Post by glimmer on May 5, 2020 1:54:28 GMT -5
I have re-emerged from the tunnel. When I go back in I will forget about coming out until I re-emerge and remember. I have been resurfacing this for years. How ever tomorrow (sleep now) I will perhaps touch a door frame! Did you, Glimmer? I was doing a Metta Bhanava practice this morning and there's some mental discourse involved, saying something like "May they be happy, may they be well". But when I let go of that so it was just still inside my head I had a vivid sensation of having been cycling a bicycle with someone holding me steady, and then that feeling of freedom and cycling on my own - or flying even. Kept my sense of quietness and presence through a run around the park and then - *$£@(&^!!! blew it just before I reached my front door. I need to re-read that Gurdijeff article, I think he said (or was it Ouspensky) found it nearly impossible when they started. I sadly did not, until I remembered to come back and look at this site, and saw your thread. As soon as I did I was back out of the tunnel I mentioned, an experimental self game I have been playing for (presumably more than?) approx three decades. Upon awaking this morning I was back out of the tunnel and lept out of bed specifically to touch a doorframe. Today has been going moderately well with the tunnel resurfacing, doorframe touch and added ‘I am’ reference (thanks, stardustpilgrim). Unfortunately with Gurdifeff I attempted (ahh, anyway) the Beelzebub Tales before most else, and it is buried around here somewhere on a bookshelf. Can you recall/recreate the sense of the bicycle, the holding and the letting go? I know my tunnel exercise probably does not mean a lot to most, but it brings me back to the realisation of returning to a noticing that my conscious thought has not been back to this particular point since I last thought of it... I started this exercise at a time I was not really seeking you could say, except that by nature I always have been. Time to ramp it up .. *taps doorframe* |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on May 5, 2020 2:35:16 GMT -5
I have re-emerged from the tunnel. When I go back in I will forget about coming out until I re-emerge and remember. I have been resurfacing this for years. How ever tomorrow (sleep now) I will perhaps touch a door frame! Did you, Glimmer? I was doing a Metta Bhanava practice this morning and there's some mental discourse involved, saying something like "May they be happy, may they be well". But when I let go of that so it was just still inside my head I had a vivid sensation of having been cycling a bicycle with someone holding me steady, and then that feeling of freedom and cycling on my own - or flying even. Kept my sense of quietness and presence through a run around the park and then - *$£@(&^!!! blew it just before I reached my front door. I need to re-read that Gurdijeff article, I think he said (or was it Ouspensky) found it nearly impossible when they started. fwiw, I thought of you as I passed a doorframe yesterday.  |
|
|
|
Post by glimmer on May 5, 2020 3:36:30 GMT -5
Did you, Glimmer? I was doing a Metta Bhanava practice this morning and there's some mental discourse involved, saying something like "May they be happy, may they be well". But when I let go of that so it was just still inside my head I had a vivid sensation of having been cycling a bicycle with someone holding me steady, and then that feeling of freedom and cycling on my own - or flying even. Kept my sense of quietness and presence through a run around the park and then - *$£@(&^!!! blew it just before I reached my front door. I need to re-read that Gurdijeff article, I think he said (or was it Ouspensky) found it nearly impossible when they started. fwiw, I thought of you as I passed a doorframe yesterday. And you didn't touch it? You must now think of this at the passing of every door frame, whilst understanding someone is holding you as you read Mr Gurdijeff, utter a Metta Bhanava practise and in between words under the breath of them say 'I am'. Good luck. I have now turned a corner where there are no doorframes, and touched the table (table may be replaced as you like), (say what you like too, but the bicycle part is worth the flightless way of it). |
|
|
|
Post by glimmer on May 5, 2020 4:10:13 GMT -5
Sorry, I often don't come across as serious. The last entry above was meant for laughter, he has probably seen my wry side. I tend to wind my words (my mind is wired a little oddly, perhaps).
I am finding the sense of 'touch' as the reminder, currently brings me back to this (fingertips across keys).
The cycle experience I can nearly grasp by an association, in the way of which I don't quite know.
'I am', that is something I often shorten to 'am', as I was once taught it as such.
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 5, 2020 8:12:11 GMT -5
Did you, Glimmer? I was doing a Metta Bhanava practice this morning and there's some mental discourse involved, saying something like "May they be happy, may they be well". But when I let go of that so it was just still inside my head I had a vivid sensation of having been cycling a bicycle with someone holding me steady, and then that feeling of freedom and cycling on my own - or flying even. Kept my sense of quietness and presence through a run around the park and then - *$£@(&^!!! blew it just before I reached my front door. I need to re-read that Gurdijeff article, I think he said (or was it Ouspensky) found it nearly impossible when they started. I sadly did not, until I remembered to come back and look at this site, and saw your thread. As soon as I did I was back out of the tunnel I mentioned, an experimental self game I have been playing for (presumably more than?) approx three decades. Upon awaking this morning I was back out of the tunnel and lept out of bed specifically to touch a doorframe. Today has been going moderately well with the tunnel resurfacing, doorframe touch and added ‘I am’ reference (thanks, stardustpilgrim). Unfortunately with Gurdifeff I attempted (ahh, anyway) the Beelzebub Tales before most else, and it is buried around here somewhere on a bookshelf. Can you recall/recreate the sense of the bicycle, the holding and the letting go? I know my tunnel exercise probably does not mean a lot to most, but it brings me back to the realisation of returning to a noticing that my conscious thought has not been back to this particular point since I last thought of it... I started this exercise at a time I was not really seeking you could say, except that by nature I always have been. Time to ramp it up .. *taps doorframe* "One night Mr. Gurdjieff was talking about self-awareness," recalled Rina Hands, "-how, in whatever we were doing, we should pause from time to time to say I, to say I not with the head alone... He lifted up his hand, looked at it and said, 'It is like this, even my thumbnail say I.' |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 5, 2020 8:16:13 GMT -5
Sorry, I often don't come across as serious. The last entry above was meant for laughter, he has probably seen my wry side. I tend to wind my words (my mind is wired a little oddly, perhaps). I am finding the sense of 'touch' as the reminder, currently brings me back to this (fingertips across keys). The cycle experience I can nearly grasp by an association, in the way of which I don't quite know. 'I am', that is something I often shorten to 'am', as I was once taught it as such. Ditto...'It is like this, even my thumbnail say I." |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on May 5, 2020 23:25:25 GMT -5
I guess if you remember that you forgot to touch the door frame that's still a remember thing
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 6, 2020 8:11:34 GMT -5
I guess if you remember that you forgot to touch the door frame that's still a remember thing But this points out that just touching the door frame in itself means nothing. Touching the door frame is an alarm clock. What is the function of an alarm clock? You set your alarm clock for 6:00 AM because you have to be at work at 7:00 AM. This is the purpose and function of an alarm clock. Some companies have a policy, if your alarm clock goes off and you turn it off and go back to sleep, three days, you are fired. Merely touching the door frame is like turning off the alarm clock and going back to sleep. So what really is the meaning of touching the door frame? It's a reminder to be "choicelessly aware". Do you have reminders to be choicelessly aware? Then it's not choiceless observation, is it. Be honest, throughout the day, how often are you choicelessly aware? If not very often, then yes, you can call that choiceless observation. But if you say: I am choicelessly aware the majority of the time, I will say without reservation, that's just not true. So there is movement from choiceless awareness to forgetting to be choicelessly aware. Yes? No? (I know the answer). Be honest. So then does it matter if one is choicelessly aware, or not? You have previously told me, recently, that it does not matter to you ("having no preference either way"). But you see, it does matter to me. So reminders are useful. If you remember, later, Oh, I passed through that door and didn't touch the frame, that, in and of itself, right then, can yes, be a reminder (to be "choicelessly aware", that is, "to bring about some particular state of mind"). |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 13, 2020 2:00:13 GMT -5
I guess if you remember that you forgot to touch the door frame that's still a remember thing <snip/> So what really is the meaning of touching the door frame? It's a reminder to be "choicelessly aware". Do you have reminders to be choicelessly aware? Then it's not choiceless observation, is it. Be honest, throughout the day, how often are you choicelessly aware? If not very often, then yes, you can call that choiceless observation. But if you say: I am choicelessly aware the majority of the time, I will say without reservation, that's just not true. <snip/> If you remember, later, Oh, I passed through that door and didn't touch the frame, that, in and of itself, right then, can yes, be a reminder (to be "choicelessly aware", that is, "to bring about some particular state of mind"). Right, when you remember then you've come back to yourself. But it's not a choice to remember, it just pops into one's head. The train of thought finally arrives at its destination and the passenger debarks. It came to me yesterday that this is why we have these stories of monks hearing a drop of water on bamboo and gaining enlightenment - that's all it took to bring them back to themselves for that final time. Or perhaps not final, who knows. It's the human condition to get distracted. How often am I aware, through choice or choicelessly? The smallest fraction of a sliver. Five mins absolute tops, on a good day (outside of meditation time). I wonder if it's actually tiring something out in some way - it feels like a muscle to exercise. What might be interesting is that the choice - if it exists at all - does not exist in that moment. It exists in the previous instance of awareness - however many hours or days ago that might have been. We set alarm clocks when we are awake, not during our sleep. My alarm clock keeps failing to go off. Very unreliable alarm clock. Or I sleep through it. Or I wake up briefly and fall asleep before I walk through the next door. And it feels like such a small carriage to be in, that train of thought, so constricting compared to the open expanse of awareness. A bubble reflecting in on itself. A scene from Jim Henson's 1986 film The Labyrinth came to mind, where Sarah sees a bubble then suddenly she's in the bubble and it takes some time for her to realise that her situation is something to escape from. |
|
