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Post by Reefs on Mar 17, 2020 9:02:11 GMT -5
I am suspicious of how difficult this all appears to be. When I feel lost (almost always), or sometimes miserable, and I sit in silence to look/wait for an answer, it seems the doors are closed. This does not fit with this idea that the “Universe” (or whatever you want to call it) wants to wake up or know the the truth. Years ago I thought I was getting "help" from someplace higher/deeper. Not so sure anymore. The thread subject: Does “God” get something from ignorance? I mean, does it want to remain lost? I'm thinking out loud again... As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 17, 2020 9:15:35 GMT -5
I am suspicious of how difficult this all appears to be. When I feel lost (almost always), or sometimes miserable, and I sit in silence to look/wait for an answer, it seems the doors are closed. This does not fit with this idea that the “Universe” (or whatever you want to call it) wants to wake up or know the the truth. Years ago I thought I was getting "help" from someplace higher/deeper. Not so sure anymore. The thread subject: Does “God” get something from ignorance? I mean, does it want to remain lost? I'm thinking out loud again... As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. Yes, or asking, "Who or what is it that thinks it needs an explanation?" Some people will resonate with enquiries like these and some people will resonate with shifting attention away from thoughts altogether. Either approach is capable of revealing the underlying truth.
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Post by laughter on Mar 17, 2020 11:14:39 GMT -5
I am suspicious of how difficult this all appears to be. When I feel lost (almost always), or sometimes miserable, and I sit in silence to look/wait for an answer, it seems the doors are closed. This does not fit with this idea that the “Universe” (or whatever you want to call it) wants to wake up or know the the truth. Years ago I thought I was getting "help" from someplace higher/deeper. Not so sure anymore. The thread subject: Does “God” get something from ignorance? I mean, does it want to remain lost? I'm thinking out loud again... As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. Yeah, that's crystal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 12:19:16 GMT -5
As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. I hear you. I realize that a conceptual answer to the kind of question I asked is not going to satisfy the searching/questioning. If try to answer your question ("why do I need an explanation at all") in words (so I can respond on this forum , it currently goes something like this: there is a primitive feeling that keeps driving activity. It's like fear, pain, worry, panic. Life doesn't feel right. It's a kind of psychic energy and drives the body/mind in all kinds of activity, physical and mental, running in circles. Thats sounds like a negative emotion and I think it sort of is, but there is a 'positive' side to. Sort of: "I like life and I fear that it is under threat". Or: "I like being 'me', being alive, being conscious, learning new things, playing around, and I feel that is all under threat." ... so it seems to lead also to the question zendancer mentioned, "what is under threat?", "what are you, exactly?" .... and playing around with words doesn't seem to lead to much, so back to silent sitting I go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 21:22:28 GMT -5
As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. I hear you. I realize that a conceptual answer to the kind of question I asked is not going to satisfy the searching/questioning. If try to answer your question ("why do I need an explanation at all") in words (so I can respond on this forum , it currently goes something like this: there is a primitive feeling that keeps driving activity. It's like fear, pain, worry, panic. Life doesn't feel right. It's a kind of psychic energy and drives the body/mind in all kinds of activity, physical and mental, running in circles. Thats sounds like a negative emotion and I think it sort of is, but there is a 'positive' side to. Sort of: "I like life and I fear that it is under threat". Or: "I like being 'me', being alive, being conscious, learning new things, playing around, and I feel that is all under threat." ... so it seems to lead also to the question zendancer mentioned, "what is under threat?", "what are you, exactly?" .... and playing around with words doesn't seem to lead to much, so back to silent sitting I go. This might be useful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 22:08:49 GMT -5
As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. I hear you. I realize that a conceptual answer to the kind of question I asked is not going to satisfy the searching/questioning. If try to answer your question ("why do I need an explanation at all") in words (so I can respond on this forum , it currently goes something like this: there is a primitive feeling that keeps driving activity. It's like fear, pain, worry, panic. Life doesn't feel right. It's a kind of psychic energy and drives the body/mind in all kinds of activity, physical and mental, running in circles. Thats sounds like a negative emotion and I think it sort of is, but there is a 'positive' side to. Sort of: "I like life and I fear that it is under threat". Or: "I like being 'me', being alive, being conscious, learning new things, playing around, and I feel that is all under threat." ... so it seems to lead also to the question zendancer mentioned, "what is under threat?", "what are you, exactly?" .... and playing around with words doesn't seem to lead to much, so back to silent sitting I go. You have to trust me in this place. If you stop solving your problem, all your problem gets automatically solved. If you stop solving, If you stop escaping from your current situation, it is just a matter of time for your reality to rearrange automatically by itself.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 19, 2020 8:15:00 GMT -5
As I've gotten into my 40's I feel more mental burden from being a 'failure' (as defined by the society, family, etc). I understand that this is a mental construct. I guess on some level I believe it, or more accurately: fear it might be true. A lot of the collective belief system is about finding "love"/sex in the world. I did not do this, and have walked the path of a loner. A lot of my problematic thought patterns seem to be in this area. I sometimes trigger a depression by looking at a young physically attractive woman. It bothers me that so much of life seems to be a dumb contest over people’s randomly assigned DNA traits (both physical appearance and mental functioning like intelligence, humor, etc.), which determine whether they are attractive to other people. Maybe this sounds shallow, but I think it gets at the core of how we define ourselves, and the "I-am-the-body virus [thought]", as Nisargadatta called it. If you see yourself thru the eyes of others, that's the inevitable result. We've all been trained to do that from a very young age, it comes with the socialization process. And as long as you keep doing that, you'll always struggle with worthiness issues. Even those who 'have made it' in the eyes of society struggle with this. The solution to this is seeing yourself and others thru the eyes of Source only. That way way you'll bypass this worthiness issue altogether. But you can't do that at will. That has to happen naturally. But mediation can help here. And in the meantime, as a temporary fix, you could make an effort and try to stop comparing yourself with anyone or anything at all. Or, if that's to big of a jump, at least limit the comparison to comparing yourself with yourself only.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 19, 2020 8:47:23 GMT -5
As long as you are looking for the most plausible explanation, you'll remain a philosopher. Sure, there are explanations, like God doing it for the fun of it, or God falling into his own dream etc. but if you really think it thru, none of these explanations really explain anything. In fact, they just perpetuate a basic misconception that made you ask for an explanation in the first place. So instead of asking "Which explanation is the most truthful?" you'd be better off asking "Why do I need an explanation at all?" That question will get you to the heart of the issue. I hear you. I realize that a conceptual answer to the kind of question I asked is not going to satisfy the searching/questioning. If try to answer your question ("why do I need an explanation at all") in words (so I can respond on this forum , it currently goes something like this: there is a primitive feeling that keeps driving activity. It's like fear, pain, worry, panic. Life doesn't feel right. It's a kind of psychic energy and drives the body/mind in all kinds of activity, physical and mental, running in circles. Thats sounds like a negative emotion and I think it sort of is, but there is a 'positive' side to. Sort of: "I like life and I fear that it is under threat". Or: "I like being 'me', being alive, being conscious, learning new things, playing around, and I feel that is all under threat." ... so it seems to lead also to the question zendancer mentioned, "what is under threat?", "what are you, exactly?" .... and playing around with words doesn't seem to lead to much, so back to silent sitting I go. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I bet some others here, do too. And you are right, ultimately, you can't resolve this issue with words or thinking. That doesn't mean, however, that trying to put your current state of being into words can't be of value. If you are being totally honest with yourself, getting clear about where you are can be of enormous value. Sincerity goes a long way on the pathless path. In fact, we used look at sincerity as one of the main indicators of someone's search being close to coming to an end. Once sincerity shows up, some higher force has taken over. I think Niz even phrased it that way. So, stick to your own genuine questions. There's no point in contemplating the questions of others no matter how clever or enlightened they come across. If those questions don't resonate deeply with you, then they are not your questions. This may sound a little strange, but while you are never alone, you still are always on your own.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2020 9:02:37 GMT -5
As I've gotten into my 40's I feel more mental burden from being a 'failure' (as defined by the society, family, etc). I understand that this is a mental construct. I guess on some level I believe it, or more accurately: fear it might be true. A lot of the collective belief system is about finding "love"/sex in the world. I did not do this, and have walked the path of a loner. A lot of my problematic thought patterns seem to be in this area. I sometimes trigger a depression by looking at a young physically attractive woman. It bothers me that so much of life seems to be a dumb contest over people’s randomly assigned DNA traits (both physical appearance and mental functioning like intelligence, humor, etc.), which determine whether they are attractive to other people. Maybe this sounds shallow, but I think it gets at the core of how we define ourselves, and the "I-am-the-body virus [thought]", as Nisargadatta called it. If you see yourself thru the eyes of others, that's the inevitable result. We've all been trained to do that from a very young age, it comes with the socialization process. And as long as you keep doing that, you'll always struggle with worthiness issues. Even those who 'have made it' in the eyes of society struggle with this. The solution to this is seeing yourself and others thru the eyes of Source only. That way way you'll bypass this worthiness issue altogether. But you can't do that at will. That has to happen naturally. But mediation can help here. And in the meantime, as a temporary fix, you could make an effort and try to stop comparing yourself with anyone or anything at all. Or, if that's to big of a jump, at least limit the comparison to comparing yourself with yourself only. That's good advice. Zen people call this "a comparing mind," and it's a variation of what is called "a judging mind." In some cases a single non-conceptual realization can end these habits completely, but even an intellectual/conceptual recognition of what's going on, psychologically, can lead to freedom from them. When I first became aware of this habit, I became curious about whether I could learn to look at people with no mental judgments arising--no mind talk abouit what was seen. Our culturally-indoctrinated habit is to look at people and think, "Fat, skinny, beautiful, ugly, rich, poor, black, white, successful, unsuccessful, etc," and then think of ourselves in comparison. ATA-T and other forms of meditation can be used to break this habit, and it's not different from learning how to see like a small child again. In fact, it's not different from learning how to speed read. If nothing else, think of it as nothing other than a bad habit, or an addiction. Any time a judgmental thought or comparing thought arises, shift attention to what is actual. Just look, listen, feel, smell, taste, attend, and continue to make this shift any time a thought arises.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 19, 2020 9:06:09 GMT -5
You have to trust me in this place. If you stop solving your problem, all your problem gets automatically solved. If you stop solving, If you stop escaping from your current situation, it is just a matter of time for your reality to rearrange automatically by itself. In theory, that's basically correct. But he can't just stop trying to solve his problems. That's the actual issue here. He can't help it.Trying to solve problems is who he is and what he does on his current level of being. Hence the suggestion to meditate. That will give him access to a deeper level of being, prior to minding (the problem-solving orientation). And when that happens he will realize that his problems exist only as the result of a very specific, habitual perspective, and that his problems are not of an actual but perceptual nature only.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2020 11:33:45 GMT -5
You have to trust me in this place. If you stop solving your problem, all your problem gets automatically solved. If you stop solving, If you stop escaping from your current situation, it is just a matter of time for your reality to rearrange automatically by itself. In theory, that's basically correct. But he can't just stop trying to solve his problems. That's the actual issue here. He can't help it.Trying to solve problems is who he is and what he does on his current level of being. Hence the suggestion to meditate. That will give him access to a deeper level of being, prior to minding (the problem-solving orientation). And when that happens he will realize that his problems exist only as the result of a very specific, habitual perspective, and that his problems are not of an actual but perceptual nature only. Exactly!
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Post by enigma on Mar 20, 2020 20:03:56 GMT -5
I am suspicious of how difficult this all appears to be. When I feel lost (almost always), or sometimes miserable, and I sit in silence to look/wait for an answer, it seems the doors are closed. This does not fit with this idea that the “Universe” (or whatever you want to call it) wants to wake up or know the the truth. Years ago I thought I was getting "help" from someplace higher/deeper. Not so sure anymore. The thread subject: Does “God” get something from ignorance? I mean, does it want to remain lost? I'm thinking out loud again... When ignorance is cleared up, it will become apparent -- and this is not something you can ever understand by thinking about it -- that there never was any ignorance! God was never lost. There clearly is ignorance (you're trying to correct that right now) and God clearly is lost (fell into his own dream) and this forum is an attempt to help find the way home.
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frustratedwanter
Full Member
Apparently I posted something in 2020. I don't think that's what I'm looking for but what ta hey?
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Post by frustratedwanter on Mar 29, 2020 1:56:23 GMT -5
Damn straight God wants to be ignorant! Doesn't it behave all ignorant? Thing pisses me off sometimes!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 2:16:34 GMT -5
darn straight God wants to be ignorant! Doesn't it behave all ignorant? Thing pisses me off sometimes! Perhaps he is wearing a mask to have the human experience, so "ignorant" may be the part of the game.
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Post by enigma on Apr 2, 2020 11:37:06 GMT -5
darn straight God wants to be ignorant! Doesn't it behave all ignorant? Thing pisses me off sometimes! Perhaps he is wearing a mask to have the human experience, so "ignorant" may be the part of the game. God doesn't want something, isn't playing a game. This is where I usually say there is no God because you want to turn Consciousness into a person who plays masquerades.
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