Janwillem van de Wetering - Japanese Zen

[Reefs]

Jan wrote three books in total about Zen. His first book is about his experiences in a Japanese Zen monastery in the late 1950s. It’s an interesting read, not because Jan has found the answers to his existential questions and shares them in the book, but because he is such a good observer and storyteller who also stubbornly refuses to give up his common sense attitude, no matter how awe-inspiring a tradition comes along.

I’ve read his books on Zen at the end of my seeker days in the late 1990’s. Books about Zen are numerous. And so are the legends and misconceptions about Zen. If I remember correctly, Jan never actually found an answer to his questions. He does, however, give his readers a much more realistic look into the realities of Zen training than most other books written about Zen. That’s why I always considered his books so valuable.

Here he describes this memorable day when he finally arrived at the monastery in Kyoto:

I was alone, twenty-six years old, neatly dressed, washed and shaved, for I was applying for a job as a monk, or lay brother. It was a hot morning in the summer of 1958. I had put down my suitcase, which contained only some clothes, books and toilet gear. The taxi which had taken me there had driven off. […] I had only been in Japan for a few days. The Dutch ship which brought me from Africa via Bombay, Singapore and Hong Kong had left me in Kobe. No contact addresses, no acquaintances of acquaintances, no letters of introduction. I did have money, enough for about three years of careful living with a short burst of extravagance now and then.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 1

He rings a bell at the entrance and a very confused looking monk eventually appears. As it turns out later, that bell is only rung on special occasions. The first faux pas. The monk doesn’t understand English, of course, and Jan doesn’t speak Japanese either. So Jan points at his suitcase and then to the meditation hall. The monk lets him in and passes him on to another monk. No one seems to know what to do with Jan.

Luckily for Jan, on that day, there was an American Zen student at the monastery, who speaks Japanese fluently and eventually manages to clear up the obvious confusion about Jan’s presence there. They take him to the master and the American helps translating between the two. And the first thing the master wanted to know was why Jan wanted to put his suitcase in the mediation hall.

The rest of his first encounter with the ZM he describes like this:

“I am here,” I said carefully, “to get to know the purpose of life. Buddhism knows that purpose, the purpose which I am trying to find, and Buddhism knows the way which leads to enlightenment.” While I tried to explain my intentions in this way I already felt ridiculous. I felt that life must have a purpose, and it seemed very stupid to have to admit that I didn’t know the purpose of the creation of what is around us and also what is within us. But I didn’t know what else to say.

To my surprise the master answered immediately. I had thought that he would be silent. When the Buddha was asked if life has, or does not have, a purpose, if there is, or isn’t, a life after death, if the universe has, or does not have, an end, if we can speak of a first cause or not, he did not answer, but maintained a “noble silence.” […]

But the Zen master, in his simple grey gown, an old man, well into his seventies, but with clear glittering eyes, did not maintain a noble silence. “That’s fine,” he said. “Life has a purpose, but a strange purpose. When you come to the end of the road and find perfect insight you will see that enlightenment is a joke.”

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 1

That’s a pretty good reply!

[stardustpilgrim]

I read his first two Zen books in the '70's. He was also a pretty good mystery writer too. As I recall, The Netherlands had an obligatory draft which he missed, being out of the country. When he went back he found himself in a little trouble. He agreed to satisfy his service by working on the police force. From that experience he began writing mysteries. I read more than half of them. One thing memorable was that his murder victims were always very interesting. There were two main characters as detectives, but their boss the Commissaris was usually a minor character. He was this wise older dude who usually helped with some key insight into the current case. My favorite book was The Japanese Corpse in which the Commissaris, despite poor health, played a major role. I'm not a big reader of fiction and I never would have read the detective fiction without finding van de Wetering through the Zen.

I read Afterzen when it came out, don't remember it being as good as the first two books. (My current guilty pleasure, for about 7+ years, which generally requires disappearing into fiction for three days, when I need a serious break, is Lee Child's Jack Reacher, usually separated by at least 6-8 months, not for the faint of heart, don't read the first one, The Killing Floor, a few lines of a nasty image I would like to forget).

[Reefs]

Feb 25, 2020 20:21:54 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

I read his first two Zen books in the '70's. He was also a pretty good mystery writer too. As I recall, The Netherlands had an obligatory draft which he missed, being out of the country. When he went back he found himself in a little trouble. He agreed to satisfy his service by working on the police force. From that experience he began writing mysteries. I read more than half of them. One thing memorable was that his murder victims were always very interesting. There were two main characters as detectives, but their boss the Commissaris was usually a minor character. He was this wise older dude who usually helped with some key insight into the current case. My favorite book was The Japanese Corpse in which the Commissaris, despite poor health, played a major role. I'm not a big reader of fiction and I never would have read the detective fiction without finding van de Wetering through the Zen.

I read Afterzen when it came out, don't remember it being as good as the first two books. (My current guilty pleasure, for about 7+ years, which generally requires disappearing into fiction for three days, when I need a serious break, is Lee Child's Jack Reacher, usually separated by at least 6-8 months, not for the faint of heart, don't read the first one, The Killing Floor, a few lines of a nasty image I would like to forget).

I've never read any of his others books. But his books on Zen are all excellent. I was just looking for the original publishing date of Afterzen, because I remember reading the books in my 'twilight zone days' (i.e. being done with the search but no realization yet), and that was right around when Afterzen came out (1999, I just found out via wikipedia). I came across this comment on Amazon:

Sobering

If you are seriously into Zen, I suggest reading all 3 of his Zen-related books in the order they were written. Not because they convey any eternal truths or I necessarily agree with his opinions. Because it will give you a real-life account of where this path might lead to in some cases. It is important for a mature understanding of what you are getting yourself into. Nothing is more sad than spending a lifetime pursuing some dream and dealing with a bunch of failed expectations in the end.

Totally agree. There's a lot of criticism in these books I remember hearing from ZD as well. Ironically, a lot of it has to do with blind faith and dogmatism (see Laughter's latest thread) and what I would call 'the glorification of koans' - all the kind of traps Zen, at it's heart, was originally intent to avoid. But I guess that's just how it goes in any 'tradition' as soon it has officially become a tradition. IMO, the main pull factor of Zen though, is the 'living masters' aspect. That's actually what made Jan go to Japan. He wasn't looking for some condensed wisdom that had been written down somewhere, he was looking for the real deal, a living specimen. He found it in Japan, but it seems he didn't know what to do with it while he was there. Because for Jan, the first year at the monastery was basically just hell and unnecessary self-torture.

[Reefs]

Just finished the first book (The Empty Mirror). After 1 1/2 years in Japan, Jan fell into a deep depression. And one day, he just went to Kobe, bought a boat ticket to Europe and left. After some reflection, he had to face the facts and declared his entire Zen adventure a failure. He felt he wasn't getting anyway, and probably never would despite all the rigorous Zen routine he tried to follow as best as he could. To me it seems though that Jan eventually discovered that good feels good and bad feels bad. And that there’s no point in letting anyone convince you otherwise. But he did seem to like the general idea of Buddhism and the no-nonsense approach of Zen:

Buddhism is for the average, normal man. It is a method of transforming daily life, the comings and goings and activities of a common man, into a mystical training. Buddhism is no school for magicians. You can’t predict the future with it, and you can’t use it to find out if you were Louis XIV in a previous life. Nor is it advisable to use Buddhism as a means of developing the third eye, to see the colors of the auras of our fellow men.

In China a Zen master traveled with a few disciples to the capital and camped near the river. A monk of another sect asked one of the disciples of the Zen master if his teacher could do magic tricks. His own master, said the monk of the other sect, was a very talented and developed man. If he stood on this side of the river, and somebody else stood on the other side, and if you gave the master a brush and the other a sheet of paper then the master would be able to write characters in the air which would appear on the sheet of paper. The Zen monk replied that his master was also a very talented and developed man, because he too could perform the most astounding feats. If he slept, for instance, he slept, and if he ate, he ate.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 2

What Jan especially struggled with was the lack of encouragement. Something I think ZD mentioned as well. Jan writes:

While I was in the monastery I was continually referred back to the daily routine, the simple everyday life. If I wanted to expound some clever theory I was either ignored or ridiculed or curtly told not to talk nonsense. What mattered was “here and now,” whatever I happened to be doing, whether I was peeling potatoes in the kitchen, washing rice, pulling out weeds, learning Japanese, drinking tea, or meditating. I had to solve my koan, the subject of my meditation, and I shouldn’t fuss.
It is irritating, annoying, to be shut up all the time, to be unable to talk, not to be able to say: “Here I am, I have experienced something, I have thought of something, I believe I know something, I understand something, please listen to me.” What irritated me most, I think, was that nobody wanted to listen to me when I discovered that meditation, even the blundering sort of meditation I was engaged in, led to new experiences with color and shape [...]

A tree is a fantastic example of beauty, but who has time to look at a tree? And now that suddenly, unexpectedly, without even wanting to, I could suddenly observe and really see objects in my surroundings, I thought this event of such importance that I wanted my discovery to be acknowledged, accepted by qualified authorities. But the master didn’t show the slightest interest; he wouldn’t even give me one of his rare nods. He thought it quite normal that moss on rocks and full dustbins are visually interesting—a truth so obvious that any comment is wasted. Zen monasteries are severe and tough. Even so, I was occasionally praised, even specially invited by the head monk to his private room and treated to bitter tea and sweet cakes, without having any idea of what it was that I had done right.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 2

[Deleted]

What Jan really wanted was known by the ZM and the ZM knew that Jan's only chance was to deny him that. The message was given, but not received. No expectations. No delusions. Chop wood. Carry water. I miss my Zen days. But thanks for these posts. They were enjoyable.

[Reefs]

Mar 8, 2020 12:11:01 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

What Jan really wanted was known by the ZM and the ZM knew that Jan's only chance was to deny him that. The message was given, but not received. No expectations. No delusions. Chop wood. Carry water. I miss my Zen days. But thanks for these posts. They were enjoyable.

I'm glad you liked it.

How much did you get involved with Zen?

Jan basically went full hardcore, even though he didn't have to shave his head and didn't have to wear a robe. The way I understood it, he basically moved around there in casual western clothing, T-shirt, jeans and sweater. Kinda funny picture.  But apart from that, he lived exactly like the other monks. He even took part in the 'week of weeks' , the rohatsu sesshin (monastery locked down for a week, up to 16 hours of meditation per day). Tough training.

His last meeting with the ZM before he left for Europe seemed to have changed his outlook though:

Three days before the ship sailed I rode to Kyoto to say goodbye to the master. The head monk gave me tea, didn’t show any disappointment, and took me to the master’s house. The master received me in his living room. He gave me a cigarette and sent the head monk to the meditation hall to fetch a stick, the sort of stick which the monks used to hit each other. He drew some characters on it with his brush, blew on the ink, waved the stick about, and gave it to me.

“The characters mean something which is of importance to you. I wrote down an old Chinese proverb, a saying taken from the Zen tradition. ‘A sword which is well forged never loses its golden color.’ You don’t know it, or you think you don’t know it, but you have been forged in this monastery. The forging of swords isn’t limited to monasteries. This whole planet is a forge. By leaving here nothing is broken. Your training continues. The world is a school where the sleeping are woken up. You are now a little awake, so awake that you can never fall asleep again.”

The head monk looked at me kindly and the master smiled. The heavy gloomy feeling which hadn’t left me in Kobe fell away from me. I bowed and left the house.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 18

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2020 8:34:58 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Mar 8, 2020 12:11:01 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

What Jan really wanted was known by the ZM and the ZM knew that Jan's only chance was to deny him that. The message was given, but not received. No expectations. No delusions. Chop wood. Carry water. I miss my Zen days. But thanks for these posts. They were enjoyable.

I'm glad you liked it.

How much did you get involved with Zen?

Jan basically went full hardcore, even though he didn't have to shave his head and didn't have to wear a robe. The way I understood it, he basically moved around there in casual western clothing, T-shirt, jeans and sweater. Kinda funny picture.  But apart from that, he lived exactly like the other monks. He even took part in the 'week of weeks' , the rohatsu sesshin (monastery locked down for a week, up to 16 hours of meditation per day). Tough training.

His last meeting with the ZM before he left for Europe seemed to have changed his outlook though:

Three days before the ship sailed I rode to Kyoto to say goodbye to the master. The head monk gave me tea, didn’t show any disappointment, and took me to the master’s house. The master received me in his living room. He gave me a cigarette and sent the head monk to the meditation hall to fetch a stick, the sort of stick which the monks used to hit each other. He drew some characters on it with his brush, blew on the ink, waved the stick about, and gave it to me.

“The characters mean something which is of importance to you. I wrote down an old Chinese proverb, a saying taken from the Zen tradition. ‘A sword which is well forged never loses its golden color.’ You don’t know it, or you think you don’t know it, but you have been forged in this monastery. The forging of swords isn’t limited to monasteries. This whole planet is a forge. By leaving here nothing is broken. Your training continues. The world is a school where the sleeping are woken up. You are now a little awake, so awake that you can never fall asleep again.”

The head monk looked at me kindly and the master smiled. The heavy gloomy feeling which hadn’t left me in Kobe fell away from me. I bowed and left the house.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 18

I just attended a Zendo (Soto) in Long Beach,CA for a little over two years. Two or three times a week. But never became a disciple or had any desire to become a priest. I was more of a peripheral participant, an observer, a bit like Jan.

Don't really like groups. It was very traditional. Two half hour sessions broken up by kin hin. Requested the kiusaku quite often, great medicine when you get sleepy. It was great time. The meditation cured me of deep persistent depression. My whole outlook on life shifted toward the positive. 

For some reason sensei kind of adopted me. I spent a lot of time out with him, dining out mostly. He even invited me to come live in the Zen Temple. I declined, but he gave me the keys to the place anyways. He would never speak about philosophical or spiritual matters except to say such topics were dumb. I considered myself a Christian at the time and wore my cross to the Zendo. I wore it all the time then. The priests and sensei would make fun of me, but it was good natured.

The politics there were slightly weird,and I was privy to hear everyone's complaints about everyone else. I left after awhile and practiced on my own until recently. Jan's ZM saying enlightenment is BS sounds very familiar. It was a common theme in the Zendo. The beauty in Zen for me, the Soto variety, is the persistent trend toward the simple and the practical.

[zendancer]

Mar 5, 2020 9:08:59 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Just finished the first book (The Empty Mirror). After 1 1/2 years in Japan, Jan fell into a deep depression. And one day, he just went to Kobe, bought a boat ticket to Europe and left. After some reflection, he had to face the facts and declared his entire Zen adventure a failure. He felt he wasn't getting anyway, and probably never would despite all the rigorous Zen routine he tried to follow as best as he could. To me it seems though that Jan eventually discovered that good feels good and bad feels bad. And that there’s no point in letting anyone convince you otherwise. But he did seem to like the general idea of Buddhism and the no-nonsense approach of Zen:

Buddhism is for the average, normal man. It is a method of transforming daily life, the comings and goings and activities of a common man, into a mystical training. Buddhism is no school for magicians. You can’t predict the future with it, and you can’t use it to find out if you were Louis XIV in a previous life. Nor is it advisable to use Buddhism as a means of developing the third eye, to see the colors of the auras of our fellow men.

In China a Zen master traveled with a few disciples to the capital and camped near the river. A monk of another sect asked one of the disciples of the Zen master if his teacher could do magic tricks. His own master, said the monk of the other sect, was a very talented and developed man. If he stood on this side of the river, and somebody else stood on the other side, and if you gave the master a brush and the other a sheet of paper then the master would be able to write characters in the air which would appear on the sheet of paper. The Zen monk replied that his master was also a very talented and developed man, because he too could perform the most astounding feats. If he slept, for instance, he slept, and if he ate, he ate.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 2

What Jan especially struggled with was the lack of encouragement. Something I think ZD mentioned as well. Jan writes:

While I was in the monastery I was continually referred back to the daily routine, the simple everyday life. If I wanted to expound some clever theory I was either ignored or ridiculed or curtly told not to talk nonsense. What mattered was “here and now,” whatever I happened to be doing, whether I was peeling potatoes in the kitchen, washing rice, pulling out weeds, learning Japanese, drinking tea, or meditating. I had to solve my koan, the subject of my meditation, and I shouldn’t fuss.
It is irritating, annoying, to be shut up all the time, to be unable to talk, not to be able to say: “Here I am, I have experienced something, I have thought of something, I believe I know something, I understand something, please listen to me.” What irritated me most, I think, was that nobody wanted to listen to me when I discovered that meditation, even the blundering sort of meditation I was engaged in, led to new experiences with color and shape [...]

A tree is a fantastic example of beauty, but who has time to look at a tree? And now that suddenly, unexpectedly, without even wanting to, I could suddenly observe and really see objects in my surroundings, I thought this event of such importance that I wanted my discovery to be acknowledged, accepted by qualified authorities. But the master didn’t show the slightest interest; he wouldn’t even give me one of his rare nods. He thought it quite normal that moss on rocks and full dustbins are visually interesting—a truth so obvious that any comment is wasted. Zen monasteries are severe and tough. Even so, I was occasionally praised, even specially invited by the head monk to his private room and treated to bitter tea and sweet cakes, without having any idea of what it was that I had done right.

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 2

Yes, it's obvious that Jan joined a Soto Zen group, and I'm glad that I was lucky enough to join a Rinzai group because the orientation is totally different. However, I left Zen because I found Advaita teachers far more effective, warmer, more encouraging, less rigid, and more willing to explain what the path is all about. By the time I encountered the Advaita tradition I had already discovered the answers to majority of my questions, and life had changed dramatically, so shifting from Zen to Advaita retreats didn't really matter that much. Best of all, I had found that informal ATA-T was just as effective as sitting on a cushion. I still credit my years of Zen practice with many realizations and helping me get out of my head.

One funny story. After about 6 years of being involved in the Zen tradition, Carol, Anna, and I decided to drive to Providence, RI for ZM Seung Sahn's sixtieth birthday party. People came from all over the country as well as many other countries, so there were between 150 and 200 people there. At one point during the three-day event people broke up into small groups of 5 to 7 people to talk and share their experiences--something that was pretty rare even in the Rinzai tradition. As the people in my group told there stories, it was obvious to me that many of them had gone the full circuit on self-improvement, and had been involved in EST, primal scream therapy, and every other similar therapeutic self-help program available, without success. Most of them still had no idea why they were practicing Zen, but Zen was a kind of last resort. When it came my turn to talk, I enthusiastically told them that Zen had given me back my true direction, and that I was deeply appreciative for that. I guess my optimism must have been shocking because they all stared at me in a kind of awed wonderment. haha. I was the only person in the group who seemed to understand that the most important thing Zen does is get people out of their heads and back to a direct interaction with reality.

I credit the koan approach in the Rinzai tradition for helping me see how totally conditioned I was to interacting with the world intellectually rather than directly. On the second retreat I attended (during a one-on-one interview) I was amazed that I couldn't answer even the simplest informal Zen koans because of my thinking, and it became immediately obvious to me that I was living in an intellectual fog created by endless thinking. Afterwards, I put notes all over my office and in my truck that said, "Don't think; look," in order to remind myself what I needed to be doing. Soto Zen points in the same direction, but IMO it takes longer to see the big picture and understand what's going on without some clear verbal explanations. The bottom line? Thinking divides and hides; silence unifies and reveals.

[Reefs]

Feb 25, 2020 20:21:54 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

I read his first two Zen books in the '70's. He was also a pretty good mystery writer too. As I recall, The Netherlands had an obligatory draft which he missed, being out of the country. When he went back he found himself in a little trouble. He agreed to satisfy his service by working on the police force. From that experience he began writing mysteries. I read more than half of them. One thing memorable was that his murder victims were always very interesting. There were two main characters as detectives, but their boss the Commissaris was usually a minor character. He was this wise older dude who usually helped with some key insight into the current case. My favorite book was The Japanese Corpse in which the Commissaris, despite poor health, played a major role. I'm not a big reader of fiction and I never would have read the detective fiction without finding van de Wetering through the Zen.

Here's an interview with Jan:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8xekxx7CHM

Feb 25, 2020 20:21:54 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

I read Afterzen when it came out, don't remember it being as good as the first two books. (My current guilty pleasure, for about 7+ years, which generally requires disappearing into fiction for three days, when I need a serious break, is Lee Child's Jack Reacher, usually separated by at least 6-8 months, not for the faint of heart, don't read the first one, The Killing Floor, a few lines of a nasty image I would like to forget).

I've started reading Afterzen and in IMO, Afterzen is the best book, exactly as I remembered it. The first book is fairly good. The second one seems to be missing any kind of structure. But the third one is a real killer. Absolutely hilarious and shocking at the same time. The first two books had been written in the 1970s. Afterzen came 25 years later. So I guess Jan wasn't so much concerned anymore with protecting other people's identities or avoiding stepping on other people's toes. He just seems to blurt it all out. It's a bit of a 'tell it all' book.

[Reefs]

Mar 10, 2020 9:56:45 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

I just attended a Zendo (Soto) in Long Beach,CA for a little over two years. Two or three times a week. But never became a disciple or had any desire to become a priest. I was more of a peripheral participant, an observer, a bit like Jan.

Don't really like groups. It was very traditional. Two half hour sessions broken up by kin hin. Requested the kiusaku quite often, great medicine when you get sleepy. It was great time. The meditation cured me of deep persistent depression. My whole outlook on life shifted toward the positive. 

For some reason sensei kind of adopted me. I spent a lot of time out with him, dining out mostly. He even invited me to come live in the Zen Temple. I declined, but he gave me the keys to the place anyways. He would never speak about philosophical or spiritual matters except to say such topics were dumb. I considered myself a Christian at the time and wore my cross to the Zendo. I wore it all the time then. The priests and sensei would make fun of me, but it was good natured.

The politics there were slightly weird,and I was privy to hear everyone's complaints about everyone else. I left after awhile and practiced on my own until recently. Jan's ZM saying enlightenment is BS sounds very familiar. It was a common theme in the Zendo. The beauty in Zen for me, the Soto variety, is the persistent trend toward the simple and the practical.

Well, Jan said that for him it was a lot easier to meditate together with others than meditating alone. At one point, he actually asked the ZM if he could convert to Buddhism. The ZM said, that could be done, they would hold a special ceremony for Jan if that's what he really wanted but suggested to think it over. The topic never came up again. What's the point of it anyway? Jan realized that.

Jan had to see the master every morning at 3 am. So when he lived outside of the temple, he got up at 2:30 am! They then meditated until breakfast, around 6 am. In the afternoon they had more meditation, also in the evening until 11 pm (bedtime). There was a more advanced American student of the ZM who lived outside the temple as well. He also came to see the master every morning at 3 am. Jan calls him 'Peter' in the book.

After one year at the temple, the ZM told Jan to move in with Peter, because the ZM felt Peter might learn something important that way. Later, when Jan was long gone, Peter went back to the US and built a spiritual community from scratch on a huge piece of land. The ZM had given him all his belongings, even his ashes belonged to Peter now. Jan went back to Holland, to normal life, with a regular job, a wife and kids. One day, Peter shows up in Amsterdam. They meet. Peter tells Jan about his community. Jan asks him if he could come and visit him one day. Peter accepts. Jan indeed goes there and visits Peter, Peter being his ZM now. But he only stays there for a couple of weeks, goes back to Holland and then returns another time for a couple of weeks again. That's what the second book is about.

There's one important point to remember about 'Peter'. While he got the robes and all belongings from the master, the master never acknowledged him formally as his successor. So technically, Peter was basically still a layman, and advanced student, but not a priest or master. But it seems that Peter considered himself a ZM anyway, because he did seem to have had some significant insights.

However, and that's what parts of the third book are about, the lack of integration of these insights kept showing over time. As Ramakrishna once said, not everyone can be a guru. Some can carry you, some will sink and take you down with them. I haven't finished reading the third book yet, but Jan keeps alluding at the collapse of Peter's Zen community at one point due to excessive abusiveness by Peter.  His ego got in the way, it seems.

I think if you are just a normal dude, have had your realization and then go back to your former life, not working on integration may not be such a biggie after all, but if you want to be a teacher, with the spotlight being on you all the time, not working on integrating your insights sooner or later leads to some kind of disaster and people may get hurt. There are plenty examples out there.

The ZM said enlightenment is a joke, not enlightenment is BS. But Jan couldn't hear that at the time, of course. His head was full of weird expectations based on what he had read in Zen books. Here's an interesting dialog between Jan and the ZM:

When the master gave instruction it was about the technique of meditation, about how to concentrate. “Become one with your koan, forget yourself, forget everything which is connected with you. When you are sitting there, sit still, in balance, breathe quietly, destroy everything in your mind and repeat your koan as if your life depends on it, quietly, over and over again. Don’t rush yourself, don’t get excited, but stay calm and indifferent, indifferent to anything which worries you, or seems important, or fascinates."

‘That’s difficult,” I would say.

"Of course it is difficult,” the master said. “Do you think it wasn’t difficult for me? I used to visit my master every day, as you do now, and I was a very slow fellow. For two years I mucked about with the koan without getting anywhere and then I had to go to China because the army wanted me.”

“Yes?” I asked, surprised. “But you are a Buddhist. Buddhists aren’t allowed to kill, are they?”

“Allowed, allowed,” the master said, “I had to. If I had refused I would have been shot. But in the army, in Manchuria, I meditated a lot. I was always doing guard duty; the other soldiers were very fond of me for I took their duty as well. […]

“And did you solve your koan?’

“Not then,” he said. “Later, when I was back in Japan and had become a monk again. I began to understand and it didn’t interest me any more to prove my understanding to the master. I visited him again every morning and during one of those visits he nodded. He immediately gave me the next koan, an easy one.”

“And you said nothing to your master?”

“No, why should I have said anything? I knelt and kept quiet, as I had been quiet so often.”

“So there was no laughing, or shouting, nobody hit anyone?"

“You have read too much,” the master said. “I told you you shouldn’t read so much. You identify yourself with all sorts of heroes and fools and try to swallow their experiences. It isn’t wrong to read, but it shouldn't lead to dreaming, or living through another person.”

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 4

[Reefs]

Mar 11, 2020 7:24:22 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Yes, it's obvious that Jan joined a Soto Zen group, and I'm glad that I was lucky enough to join a Rinzai group because the orientation is totally different.

That's interesting. How did you conclude that? I actually had to look this up because in the first book, Jan never mentions the Rinzai/Soto thing. The way I remember the fundamental difference is that one is the sudden enlightenment school and the other the gradual enlightenment school, right? There are other differences too, which I forgot. But I found this on reddit:

Rinzai:

more structured instruction

koans are integral part of practice

shikantaza (just sitting) is only for advanced students

fast walking meditation

tends to emphasize dedication and effort

more emphasis on sudden enlightenment

draw from a wider variety of literature and liturgy

sit facing other students

Soto:

more open-ended sequence of instruction

koans are less central and used later in training

shikantaza is central meditation practice

slow walking meditation (like, glacial)

tends to emphasize mindfulness and observance

enlightenment seen as gradual process

most liturgy and literature comes from Dogen

sit facing walls


www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/9cbzgf/whats_the_major_differences_between_rinzai_and/

I was thinking, this sudden vs. gradual enlightenment division, could that be similar to our one single realization vs. multiple realizations division?

Anyway, Jan's lineage belongs to the Rinzai tradition. In the second book, he writes:

The Zen sect I had blundered into in Japan belonged to the Rinzai school. Rinzai is known for its extensive use of koans but there are also other Zen methods. Soto-Zen for instance hardly uses the koan. And, as Soto priests will point out, koans aren’t really necessary. The Buddha didn’t use one when he sat down under his tree. The only reason (the Soto priests say) that the Rinzai training uses koans almost continuously is because Rinzai attracts intellectual, or merely restless, minds. To force a restless mind to sit still and concentrate on the great “Nothing” which causes and explains all phenomena is impossible. So the Rinzai disciple has to be tricked, and he is tricked by giving him koans to solve. With a koan he is under the impression that he has “something to do.”

Whether there is any truth in this criticism I wouldn’t know. It may be that the rebuff, like many rebuffs, is born from jealousy. It might be possible that the Soto priests felt inferior. Many Rinzai people became famous in China and Japan. They had brilliant minds. And the Soto people, who risked falling into apathy by their very stillness, may have been tempted to sneer at them.

Each path, each method, attracts its own type. I had, without knowing it, knocked on a Rinzai gate when I made my first contact with Buddhism in Kyoto. And now, thinking back, I wasn’t sorry. The new koan excited me. Excitement, of course, is a surface sensation, and has neither depth nor value, but it would help me through this week.

Janwillem van de Wetering, A Glimpse of Nothingness: Experiences in an American Zen Community, Chapter 8

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2020 8:52:31 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Mar 10, 2020 9:56:45 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

I just attended a Zendo (Soto) in Long Beach,CA for a little over two years. Two or three times a week. But never became a disciple or had any desire to become a priest. I was more of a peripheral participant, an observer, a bit like Jan.

Don't really like groups. It was very traditional. Two half hour sessions broken up by kin hin. Requested the kiusaku quite often, great medicine when you get sleepy. It was great time. The meditation cured me of deep persistent depression. My whole outlook on life shifted toward the positive. 

For some reason sensei kind of adopted me. I spent a lot of time out with him, dining out mostly. He even invited me to come live in the Zen Temple. I declined, but he gave me the keys to the place anyways. He would never speak about philosophical or spiritual matters except to say such topics were dumb. I considered myself a Christian at the time and wore my cross to the Zendo. I wore it all the time then. The priests and sensei would make fun of me, but it was good natured.

The politics there were slightly weird,and I was privy to hear everyone's complaints about everyone else. I left after awhile and practiced on my own until recently. Jan's ZM saying enlightenment is BS sounds very familiar. It was a common theme in the Zendo. The beauty in Zen for me, the Soto variety, is the persistent trend toward the simple and the practical.

Well, Jan said that for him it was a lot easier to meditate with other than meditating alone. At one point, he actually asked the ZM if he could convert to Buddhism. The ZM said, that could be done, there would hold a special ceremony for Jan if that's what he really wanted but suggested to think it over. The topic never came up again. What's the point of it anyway? Jan realized that.

Jan had to see the master every morning at 3 am. So when he lived outside of the temple, he got up at 2:30 am! They then meditated until breakfast, around 6 am. In the afternoon they had more meditation, also in the evening until 11 pm (bedtime). There was a more advanced American student of the ZM who lived outside the temple as well. He also came to see the master every the morning at 3 am. Jan calls him 'Peter' in the book. After one year at the temple, the ZM told Jan to move in with Peter, because the ZM felt Peter might learn something important that way. Later, when Jan was long gone, Peter went back to the US and built a spiritual community from scratch on a huge piece of land. The ZM had given him all his belongings, even his ashes belonged to Peter now. Jan went back to Holland, to normal life, with a regular job, a wife and kids. One day, Peter shows up in Amsterdam. They meet. Peter tells Jan about his community. Jan asks him if he could come and visit him on day. Peter accepts. Jan indeed goes there and visits Peter, Peter being his ZM now. But he only stays there for a couple of weeks, goes back to Holland and then returns another time for a couple of weeks again. That's what the second book is about.

There's one important point to remember about 'Peter'. While he got the robes and all belongings from the master, the master never acknowledged him formally as his successor. So technically, Peter basically was still a layman, and advanced student, but not a priest. But it seems that Peter considered himself a ZM, because he did seem to have had some significant insights. However, and that's what parts of the third book are about, the lack of integration of these insights kept showing over time. As Ramakrishna said, not everyone can be a guru. Some can carry, some will sink and take you down with them. I haven't finished reading the third book, but Jan keeps alluding at the collapse of Peter's Zen community at one point due to excessive abusiveness by Peter.  His ego got in the way, it seems. If you are just a normal dude, have had your realization and then go back to your former life, not working on integration may not be such a biggie after all, but if you want to be a teacher, not working on integrating your insights sooner or later leads to some kind of disaster and people may get hurt. There are plenty examples out there.

The ZM said enlightenment is a joke, not enlightenment is BS. But Jan couldn't hear that at the time, of course. His head was full of weird expectations based on what he had read in Zen books. Here's an interesting dialog between Jan and the ZM:

When the master gave instruction it was about the technique of meditation, about how to concentrate. “Become one with your koan, forget yourself, forget everything which is connected with you. When you are sitting there, sit still, in balance, breathe quietly, destroy everything in your mind and repeat your koan as if your life depends on it, quietly, over and over again. Don’t rush yourself, don’t get excited, but stay calm and indifferent, indifferent to anything which worries you, or seems important, or fascinates."

‘That’s difficult,” I would say.

"Of course it is difficult,” the master said. “Do you think it wasn’t difficult for me? I used to visit my master every day, as you do now, and I was a very slow fellow. For two years I mucked about with the koan without getting anywhere and then I had to go to China because the army wanted me.”

“Yes?” I asked, surprised. “But you are a Buddhist. Buddhists aren’t allowed to kill, are they?”

“Allowed, allowed,” the master said, “I had to. If I had refused I would have been shot. But in the army, in Manchuria, I meditated a lot. I was always doing guard duty; the other soldiers were very fond of me for I took their duty as well. […]

“And did you solve your koan?’

“Not then,” he said. “Later, when I was back in Japan and had become a monk again. I began to understand and it didn’t interest me any more to prove my understanding to the master. I visited him again every morning and during one of those visits he nodded. He immediately gave me the next koan, an easy one.”

“And you said nothing to your master?”

“No, why should I have said anything? I knelt and kept quiet, as I had been quiet so often.”

“So there was no laughing, or shouting, nobody hit anyone?"

“You have read too much,” the master said. “I told you you shouldn’t read so much. You identify yourself with all sorts of heroes and fools and try to swallow their experiences. It isn’t wrong to read, but it shouldn't lead to dreaming, or living through another person.”

Janwillem van de Wetering, The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, Chapter 4

The story about Peter just tells me this business is not an exact science. ZM's make mistakes. I'm not keen on the integration thing. It just tells me the realization claim is suspect when they're screwing their students or mistreating them. I'm with Ramana in that the realized are only capable of compassion and love. Although it's possible it might come out strangely at times.

My sensei showed me a picture of him in JIA uniform trudging through the Manchuria snow. I asked him if we chanted to vow to love all sentient beings, how could we go to war and kill. His reply still teaches to this day. He said it was more important to obey the emperor. The statement exposed my judgement and still does. 

The point of telling us enlightenment is a joke or bs is to end grasping. Zen is all about the preparation and letting go of the goal, at least Soto. Rinzai, well, those cats are wacked, just look at ZD.😁😁

[Reefs]

Mar 15, 2020 9:20:31 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

The story about Peter just tells me this business is not an exact science. ZM's make mistakes. I'm not keen on the integration thing. It just tells me the realization claim is suspect when they're screwing their students or mistreating them. I'm with Ramana in that the realized are only capable of compassion and love. Although it's possible it might come out strangely at times.

My sensei showed me a picture of him in JIA uniform trudging through the Manchuria snow. I asked him if we chanted to vow to love all sentient beings, how could we go to war and kill. His reply still teaches to this day. He said it was more important to obey the emperor. The statement exposed my judgement and still does. 

The point of telling us enlightenment is a joke or bs is to end grasping. Zen is all about the preparation and letting go of the goal, at least Soto. Rinzai, well, those cats are wacked, just look at ZD.😁😁

Agreed, and I think you have to make allowances for differences in personality, too.

As for ‘Peter’, I was getting a bit ahead of myself there. I’ll tell you about his specific case when I’ve finished the book. But his real name was Walter Nowick. Maybe you American Zen dudes have heard that name before. I haven’t. Jan’s ZM in Japan was Gotō Zuigan and the temple where he lived is the Daitoku-ji.

Well, ZD even invented his own koans. Rinzai-fellow to the core.

[Reefs]

Mar 15, 2020 9:20:31 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

The point of telling us enlightenment is a joke or bs is to end grasping. Zen is all about the preparation and letting go of the goal, at least Soto.

I see it a bit differently. Think about it, did you choose to become a seeker? If you did, then you should be able to end it, too. If you didn't, then you can't. And if you can't, all you can do is let it run its course. Sometimes it seems to me that the Zen approach is all about trying to accelerate this natural process, pedal to the metal so to speak, in order to bring it to a head at all costs. Or at least some people who get involved with Zen seem to think that way.

Jan had some interesting thoughts on this:

Another disciple arrived, a tall man, some thirty years old, who looked as if he had been put together in a hurry [...] he seemed very familiar as if we had been to school together, and I meant to make contact with him later. I felt that a meeting might be very fruitful, might clarify some of the many riddles.

Riddles, I thought despondently, too many riddles. He is plunging his way through them, and so am I. He looks as bewildered as I must look to others. And yet we share the same arrogance, for he must be as determined as I am to reach “the other shore.” I stopped my thoughts at the word “arrogance.” Perhaps I had found a clue. To strive for something, no matter what it is, is egocentric behavior. To strive means to grab. Perhaps I shouldn’t grab.

The old teacher had told me about the man under the apple tree. First he grabbed at the apples and every now and then he would get one, but they were small and they were crushed in his hand. Then he changed his attitude. He just stood under the tree and stopped jumping. He merely held up his hands and when the apples were ripe they fell into his hands, and there were so many apples that he didn’t know what to do with them and gave them away.

“So I must wait,” I thought, “like I am waiting here in the snow. And while I am waiting I can do the best I can.”
Buddhism indicates the possibility of many lives, a sea of illusionary time. Whatever it is I want will come, when it wants to come. All I have to do is be there when it comes. And then I can give it away.

Sure, I thought. Very nice. But meanwhile there is the urgency of the koans. Whenever I pass one there is another. An endless supply of riddles, all to be solved on the spot. Peter doesn’t approve of his disciples hanging about patiently waiting.

Janwillem van de Wetering, A Glimpse of Nothingness: Experiences in an American Zen Community, Chapter 10

[laughter]

Mar 15, 2020 9:20:31 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

The point of telling us enlightenment is a joke or bs is to end grasping. Zen is all about the preparation and letting go of the goal, at least Soto. Rinzai, well, those cats are wacked, just look at ZD.😁😁

Really? A jest that is cosmic in proportions is .. well .. kinda' hilarious.