The "One Wish" Game

[Portto]

OK. So many games...
We are trying to avoid the circular thinking of the mind only to find out that we are hiding from ourselves.

[klaus]

Jan 14, 2010 20:04:36 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Karen: Fortunately, you can't blow it. FWIW, in the past I've had exactly the same kind of experience you described. As soon as I sensed a tiny crack in the cosmic egg, the mind jumped in there and started second-guessing what was happening. "Hey, was this something real or just my imagination again?" It's a good sign; just keep paying attention.

Klaus: I'm impressed. Two copies, no less! I didn't think anybody knew about the book except weirdos like me. LOL. He has another book that's kinda cool titled "Only Two Can Play This Game," about a girl he fell madly in love with. When people say that they've never had a mystical experience, I sometimes ask them if they've ever fallen head over heels in love? The same sort of thing happens as a result of falling in love as in enlightenment experiences. Selfhood disssolves, thought ceases, one lives totally in the present, bliss is pervasive, etc.

zendancer,

Truth be known I'm a wierdo, too.
To paraphrase Alan Watts: In the beginning was God and God said let there be a distinction.....

Yes, he wrote-Only Two Can Play This Game-under the name of James Keyes.
How true, falling in love is a mystical experience. Love empties Itself into form so that form can empty Itself into Love.

[maggie]

Hello,

This thing seems to be heating up, reading all your posts has only made it more intense... the best pointer that speaks to this is to be silently aware more and more deferring to not thought or what is here already...So yes this is what is being applied....this is a long standing affair... I've been flirting with this for 22 years...mostly in spurts ... 9 years of actual devotion....however lately all the attractions of the life experience had dried up....painful... And as of late lots of "things" are presenting...today I sat on the couch listening to music and was drawn into the most beautiful....I can't imagine anything like this! I seem to be spending more and more "time" with this....I can't seem to help it...all the lessons are starting to make sense....like no place to rest my head... there are lots of physical changes to the body as well mostly in the head...I am feeling like falling into the sweetest hole knowing I may never emerge and don't care if or not....

I am very grateful for your stories as they are very similar to mine...I started out asking God to kill me as I had relapsed back to alcohol ....this Voice yelled at me...No because you are going to help someone! Never mind I said what the #$%^ are you talking about........

I always had this bent toward the spiritual steps (yes I know its all spiritual) On my 3 month the Course in Miracles found me....Non dual Christ, staying with this all this time with a one 1 year walk away. 3 Years sober I moved to a community where this was the primary focus... lots of time spent in meditation and study...

I do not know if this is what you call Kensho or not one day in meditation, I had an episode where (this) was blown out into pure white light....no location, no body, no me...nothing was there except this excruciating Love and white light everywhere....until I had the thought of where am I!!!!Looking for my body, looking for something to give a boundry... FEAR... and wham back in the body, not a real graceful re entry (LOL)....The one thing I took from that seeing was that the "world is indeed not real". I never could quite believe it again, even though there were times I got really sucked in, the bubble was pierced. I left the community as I was disillusioned with all the very things I loved about it...I was devastated after all those years of having lots of companions on the "path" and then to suddenly be alone...

It had been some years now since then. I swore off teachers and teachings and went to AA only...I felt an alien there but it was keeping me alive. I eventually met an old friend I trusted who told me about Adayshanti...I checked him out totally skeptical...I found his goal was for me not to "need" a teacher but to find this out for myself...I felt okay with that...many silent retreats later and much paying attention to what has always been right in front of my face....

Now the top of this page is where ....I feel a finally being willing to sit with nothing...my feeling is that I have nowhere to go....and I do not mind...for the first freaking time. I hope you guys don't mind the story of "me" however I have found nothing much worth hiding, being out in the open wins every time....K so that being said thanks for letting me ramble on and anyone is welcome to share any thing with me about this thing called, Maggie you feel drawn to... Much Gratitude

[zendancer]

Maggie: That's a great story, and I'm glad you shared it. It sounds like you're a piece of ripe fruit about to fall from the tree. LOL. Being willing to sit with nothing, without expectation that things should be different than what they are is a very important stage. Simply stay focused upon "what is," and more and more will be revealed. And yes, that was a kensho experience. Cheers.

[skyblue]

Maggie, I have been a student of ACIM and will be forever grateful for it. It was one of my stepping stones to nonduality. I think I had to read it in the Christian format before I 'got it' in any other way. After working the lessons and reading the text, my mind was ripe for more nonduality teachings.

My father was an alcoholic and my 36 year old son is still an alcoholic. As a mother, I know the pain you are going through because I have lived it through my son.

All pain eventully leads to Oneness. You are on your way.

Namaste'

Sky

[lightmystic]

Maggie: Ah! Beautiful stuff! Thanks for sharing! It does sound like you are right where you need to be....

I know a guy for whom AA was incredibly helpful to spurring his Awakening. He points out that the twelve step program is a model for both the process of growth and process that takes place in the face of Waking Up. I thought that was fascinating stuff, and perhaps I'll share it now for fun:

1. Admitting we are powerless over <fill in blank here>
2. Putting faith in a Power greater than ourselves.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

These three points, especially when taken together, essentially point to the recognition that "I am not the doer." It inspires a deep letting go from recognizing that I am not able to be in control, and that trying to be in control does not work and is not working.

4. Making a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

Recognizing more and more what's in the way of greater openness....

5. Admitting to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Being honest about how we feel, especially those things that we feel most bad about ourselves for...honesty with how we feel leads to healing of how we feel

6. Being entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

While "defects of character" may not exactly hit the nail on the head, this points to the importance of openness, of willingness, to have more. Opening enough to accept more is scary, but it cannot be had without that willingness to be open enough to receive it.

7. Humbly asking Him to remove our shortcomings.

This points to the value of asking Life/God for what we want. We are all the time asking and receiving anyway, and the more aware we are of that process, the more we can start to get out of the way of having what we want (turning it over to a higher power as the 12 step program would say).

8. Making a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Making direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Again, with the honesty about how we feel, and resolving that. It doesn't necessarily have to be an external thing. To heal it in ourselves DOES heal it outside of ourselves. And, if anything is needed on the outside, it will just happen as necessary. I think it was Byron Katie who said that true forgiveness is recognizing that there is nothing to forgive. I thought that was pretty apt.

10. Continuing to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

Again, the honesty thing. Honesty leads to openness, which leads to having more....

11. Seeking through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

Allowing ourselves to be closer to the Creator, to our own Infiniteness, again recognizing that I am not the doer, I am not in control, and so can stop trying and start talking and listening to Life instead.

12. Having a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps

I think that says it all.

[lightmystic]

Thanks ZD,

Yep, I'm always totally surprised and blown away about how things work out, the turns life takes, and even the things I do. There's just no way to know at all! Amazing stuff. It never ceases to get me...

Jan 15, 2010 11:49:18 GMT -5 zendancer said:

LM: That was a good explication of the issues. I thought I was going to write about non-locality, Bell's Theorem, and other related stuff yesterday, but I/It just didn't have the energy to think that much. Instead, It decided to hike up a nearby ice-encrusted mountain. It's an unpredictable little sucker isn't it? LOL

[maggie]

Sky, Lightmystic and Zendancer,

Thank you for your kind replies and yes laughter too! I am so happy to have a sounding board for this great adventure. There is a true sense of joy in having friends that have traversed this way. I am very keen to ZD's pointer to stay focused upon what is...

The way I used to think of the 12 step program as a kindergarten has been drastically revised, as the cutting edge spiritual tool I see it as today....Especially way out stuff like my favorites "Keep it Simple" and "One Moment at a Time".

It is a lot easier when the need to argue with what is gets left behind. I laughed so hard when I read your replies that it shook my whole self!!!! Which reminds me of another AA slogan, "Hold onto your A-- your in for a hell of a ride!!! They always had such a broad smile as they said it... Maggie
'

[skyblue]

Jan 15, 2010 18:38:30 GMT -5 maggie said:

Sky, Lightmystic and Zendancer,

Thank you for your kind replies and yes laughter too! I am so happy to have a sounding board for this great adventure. There is a true sense of joy in having friends that have traversed this way. I am very keen to ZD's pointer to stay focused upon what is...

The way I used to think of the 12 step program as a kindergarten has been drastically revised, as the cutting edge spiritual tool I see it as today....Especially way out stuff like my favorites "Keep it Simple" and "One Moment at a Time".

It is a lot easier when the need to argue with what is gets left behind. I laughed so hard when I read your replies that it shook my whole self!!!! Which reminds me of another AA slogan, "Hold onto your A-- your in for a hell of a ride!!! They always had such a broad smile as they said it... Maggie
'

Maggie, when I entered 12 step(Al-Anon and Coda), I practically crawled through the door. I consider 12 step right up there with nondual teachings.

My favorite phrase is "take what you like and leave the rest".

[question]

Lightmystic: Thanks for your time and great reply. I've read it over and over and lived with it for a couple of days. After I've read what you said about meditation, I've decided to try again and see if it's true what you wrote, about fear and resistance and about the "duality" of mind and infinite impersonal awareness. The meditation went in another direction however. So two days ago I've meditated and what became very apparent is that whatever perception comes, it is automatically contextualized into some "subjective space", the center of which is a reference point behind my eyes, somewhere in my brain area. Objective space (in theory) has no center. But this subjective space (in my experience) has a center. Before a perception comes, I'm not sure if there is space, but when a perception comes, it automatically appears in relation to that center and so space appears. It's really awkward. Does the space (between the center and perception) always appear with a perception and then disapperars, or is it always there and I just don't recognize it? What is this reference point? Such then were my questions.

Yesterday I meditated again, and, contrary to the previous session, I found out that perceptions aren't contextualized into some subjective "space" because of a central reference point, but because perceptions bring with itself a natural innocent quality that the mind reads and uses, to put them into a context of space. A sound coming from the right sounds differently than a sound coming from the left, but both sounds appear neither left nor right, nor in the middle. It's only the mind's interpretation that creates the illusion of a sound coming from or being left or right. So now it's quite apparent that it's the mind that brings the structure of subjective space and time into experience and perception. As long as the mind doesn't relate perceptions to itself, such structure isn't actually there. I think I already understood this intellectually and it was felt in meditation, but somehow it became "more obvious" this time.

I can't yet experientally confirm awareness to be universally everpresent, independent of the brain. But I can confirm most of what you wrote about the mind telling stories. A specific problem that I still have is, that whatever is perceived, is always selective and dependent on the position of my body within "objective space". I see an object and then I move around it and now it appears differently. Is this phenomenon also part of the mind? If yes, wouldn't that mean that the actual physical body is part of the mind? That's actually one of the main reasons why I'm so fond of associating mind and awareness with the brain's functionning.

[zendancer]

Question: Good post. Experimenting open mindedly is the way that leads to truth. You wrote, "I see an object, and then I....." Not really. There is seeing, but there is no "you" nor is there "an object" being seen. This is the dream of separation, the fundamental illusion. We practice thinking that we are entities "in here" looking at things "out there" so often that the illusion is constantly reinforced. If we shift our attention more and more often to "what is," without imagining, naming, or cognizing, eventually that habit will burn through the illusion. When that happens, the space between the imagined observer and the imagined objects under observation will collapse. This is what happened to the Buddha when he looked at Venus rising over the horizon. He discovered that he and Venus were one and that there was no space between the two. There was no twoness! The same thing happens to everyone on this path if he/she sticks with it long enough. Cheers.

[kornjace]

I have been having some thoughts lately so...
ZD i think yours ideas and advices here are few steps ahed and I see that problem in lots of enlightened „beings“ trying to help. I think noone can comprehend what you mean by „what is“.
EnlighenMENs opften know to say: „just do it“ or „it just came to me“ or „dont read“, „dont meditate“... and when you read theris biographies they are contradictory, Tolle and Krishnamurti included. Tolle: oh, i woke up one night and thought to myself „i cant live with myself“ than askd myself „who is talking to who“, „who is me and who is myself“ and that was all. And biography shows he was „on the path“ long ago.
This post is critics to enlightened beings for not becoming a good teachers. Lots of them are more focused in explaineng how they feel once transformed insted of how to transform, what they did...
I can see by the whay they write, talk... that they are „higher“ beings, and you also are beautiful being but doesnt make you good teacher - in no bad way. I would just like much more if they work on their theaching skills, experiment with people, see how they react, learn... and become good teachers of enlightenment. After all, isnt that the most valuable thing than?
I think we should put magnifier glass your solution giving sentence (how? answering): „zd:...If we shift our attention more and more often to "what is," without imagining, naming, or cognizing“. – and that that should be the center of teachers teachings. And what comes of it: ego lose, sense of oneness... is secundary. And those sentences ofthen drown in the see of unimportant informations.
Now that being center I have some questions, i dont know how to look without imagining, naming... how to do it... can you awaken this perception in me somehow diferent – and so on, and so on
My concentration is falling, this writing and exhausted me so now i dont know what i wrote anymore. Ill go to sleep now and see what i wrote tomorow.
Regards from universe manifasted as thought distorted perception of itself and being aware of that.

[jimmytantric]

Zendancer- who changed you from a secular scientist to a mystic if there's no we? Is anything changing? I don't know. Is secular scientist or mystic any different. I know nothing.

[zendancer]

Kornjace: First of all, anyone who has seen through the illusion of selfhood does not think of him/herself as a higher being. He/she doesn't even think in terms of being a separate being, so there is no higher or lower in THAT.

Second, although "what is" cannot be comprehended, it can be perceived. For someone who is new to this path, seeing is the most difficult thing to do without naming or thinking. Listening is much easier. If we just listen to what we can hear, we are listening to "what is." Imagine that you hear a bell ringing at a nearby church. Can you just hear the sound without commenting upon it? Just......"rinnnnnng." If you can, then spend fifteen or twenty minutes listening to whatever you can hear. Every time your mind starts talking about what you are hearing or naming what you are hearing, return to the sound. Just ........"riiiinnnng." Okay? No words or ideas.

If you cannot listen without naming and thinking, then try breath counting. Slowly breathe in and silently count "one." Then slowly breathe out. Breathe in a second time and count "two." Then breathe out. Count ten breaths and then repeat the process. If thoughts interrupt you, and you lose the count, return to "one," and start over again. This practice can help you develop some space between thoughts, and later you can proceed to "following the breath" (the same practice without counting), and eventually to looking and listening. "What is" nothing more than a synonym for "absolute reality." Keep us posted on how things are going. Cheers.

[zendancer]

Jan 17, 2010 22:28:47 GMT -5 jimmytantric said:

Zendancer- who changed you from a secular scientist to a mystic if there's no we? Is anything changing? I don't know. Is secular scientist or mystic any different. I know nothing.

1. Who changed me from a secular scientist to a mystic? You, you sly fellow!
2. Is anything changing? A few minutes ago the sun was shining; now it's raining.
3. Is a secular scientist any different than a mystic? A secular scientist is a secular scientist; a mystic is a mystic. Don't get attached to "same" or "different." The truth shines everywhere. Raindrops beating on the window, computer fan humming, universal sound ringing in the ears....

Have a great day.