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Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2016 21:22:17 GMT -5
Rowing done for the day?  The day?  It's always the River doin' the work.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 1:39:47 GMT -5
Hi there, But isn't that just theory? It sounds good, but how do you know it's true? A guy like Matt Kahn has quite some authority for my, in the positive sense; And I think the way to understand this matter better, is probably to look more deeply at our definitions of the words, like for example the word "plan"; how can there be a divine plan, when there is no time? So, you're sold on the idea of divine forces, but not a divine plan. What form do these divine forces take for you? Only if other individuals are figments in your consciousness, If not, It's clear that universal movement is predetermined. Predetermination is longing for a determiner. God can't fallen into his own dream through multiple perspective and perform the integrated expression. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 3:11:50 GMT -5
Rowing done for the day? The day? It's always the River doin' the work. The River with a capital R never ever does any work my son. Never ever ever. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 6, 2016 4:31:12 GMT -5
The day? It's always the River doin' the work. The River with a capital R never ever does any work my son. Never ever ever. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 6, 2016 8:27:26 GMT -5
Our little pea-brains don't have the capacity to understand the complexity of how the universe is structured. Even concerning ordinary science, scientists don't know how life originated, can't make life from "scratch". You have to have life to make life. Scientists don't know how consciousness arises from life, they don't know how the stuff inside a mind-body-brain comes to realize it is. Biologists don't even know how photosynthesis works, how a plant turns the energy of photons from the sun into chemical energy, that keeps us alive. Physicists don't know why the universe began as a low state of entropy, an ordered state which, over time, becomes increasingly disordered (meaning there is less energy available for work). The ordinary mind just does not have the capacity to answer what you ask. Ordinary mind is merely a sort of copy machine. For creativity and invention and increasing understanding, mind has to get beyond itself, be more than it now is. But then if one mind comes to KNOW, it can't share what it knows, because the ~other~ mind faces the same obstacles, its capacity to be more than it is, has to likewise be expanded. Some knowledge/information cannot be put into words, cannot be abstracted, ZD is right. Correct. Without non-conceptual insight and understanding into this issue how can someone without non-conceptual insight and understanding know what various words might be pointing to? One sage might say, "God has a plan." Another sage with equal insight and understanding might say, "God has no plan." They're both pointing to the same realization and understanding, but they're using different words that appear to be contradictory to the mind. How can someone without their realization know what's being pointed to? This is why each person must find the living truth for him/herself. Here's an example: Jacob Boehm, a Christian mystic, had many CC experiences. He once told a disciple, "If thou cans't for a moment throw thyself into that wherein no creature dwelleth, thou shalt hear unspeakable words of God." What can the mind do with a statement like that? Only someone who has been "where no creature dwelleth" will understand what the words are pointing to. Yes. Here, for example, I would say Gopal has seen only one side of the coin. To put words in his mouth, Gopal says God has a plan, and carries it out, via predeterminism. But I would say there is another side of the coin, God not only allows choice, choice is necessary for the "plan" to be fulfilled. God works within individual choices. A simple example, God does not force a decision to turn right, for God, it doesn't matter if we turn right or left, He/(She) already has an alternative, for our ~wrong~turn. But then also, a coin even has three sides..... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 8:29:45 GMT -5
Correct. Without non-conceptual insight and understanding into this issue how can someone without non-conceptual insight and understanding know what various words might be pointing to? One sage might say, "God has a plan." Another sage with equal insight and understanding might say, "God has no plan." They're both pointing to the same realization and understanding, but they're using different words that appear to be contradictory to the mind. How can someone without their realization know what's being pointed to? This is why each person must find the living truth for him/herself. Here's an example: Jacob Boehm, a Christian mystic, had many CC experiences. He once told a disciple, "If thou cans't for a moment throw thyself into that wherein no creature dwelleth, thou shalt hear unspeakable words of God." What can the mind do with a statement like that? Only someone who has been "where no creature dwelleth" will understand what the words are pointing to. Yes. Here, for example, I would say Gopal has seen only one side of the coin. To put words in his mouth, Gopal says God has a plan, and carries it out, via predeterminism. But I would say there is another side of the coin, God not only allows choice, choice is necessary for the "plan" to be fulfilled. God works within individual choices. A simple example, God does not force a decision to turn right, for God, it doesn't matter if we turn right or left, He/(She) already has an alternative, for our ~wrong~turn. But then also, a coin even has three sides..... If you have the choice God can't know the future. If he can't know the future, he can't fulfill his plan. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 6, 2016 8:53:55 GMT -5
Pay attention to context! That's usually already half the solution to existential questions. Maybe somebody should explain context sometime??  Maybe it's not part of the Divine Plan. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 6, 2016 10:21:57 GMT -5
Maybe somebody should explain context sometime?? Maybe it's not part of the Divine Plan. Ahhhh, ya beat me to it! I was going to say that if there is a divine plan, it obviously includes people arguing about whether there is a divine plan. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Sept 6, 2016 11:42:23 GMT -5
Occam's Razor has me leaning No. However Miss Diane counters this deduction with sheer ecstasy in her answer Lady Divine.
When the day, when the day falls to the light
At the end, oh the end of my time
I call to the dark take the bones off my back
And I chant to the black you were my lady divine
'Cause my children are in hiding
Mortor and pestle they grind
Those songs whistled through white teeth do scuff the days
With songs for children to sing
Those songs whistled through white teeth do scuff the days
With songs for children to sing
When the chairs are tucked into the fading song
And the silver of their pours has grown long
Oh, they call to the dark, take the bones off my back
And they chant to the black you were my lady divine
And they bloat like a bitter wine in their bellies
'Cause the bones have been removed
From their hunched over backs
And their children are all grown now
Mortor and pestle they grind
Those songs whistled through white teeth still scuff the days
With songs for children to sing
Those songs whistled through white teeth still scuff the days
With songs for children to sing
Those songs for children to sing
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Post by laughter on Sept 6, 2016 14:15:27 GMT -5
Need some more time now, have some physical difficulty and it also gets complicated now with many new aspects; I have difficulty to keep concentrating on posts, am living in a spiritual high energy field since some time, plus started sungazing, come back to this; Thanks for your input ... aki, once I saw the Kahn video I'd meant to ask you about what pain you might be in. Sometimes writing about it where you know others will read that can help with it. As you might have noticed, this isn't the warmest cuddliest place on the interwebs to do such a thing, but you might be surprised with the way what you write will be addressed if you do. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:42:43 GMT -5
Right, no divine plan. So, you're sold on the idea of divine forces, but not a divine plan. What form do these divine forces take for you? Only if other individuals are figments in your consciousness, If not, It's clear that universal movement is predetermined. Predetermination is longing for a determiner. God can't fallen into his own dream through multiple perspective and perform the integrated expression. It's never a good idea to say what God can't do.  |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:50:27 GMT -5
Correct. Without non-conceptual insight and understanding into this issue how can someone without non-conceptual insight and understanding know what various words might be pointing to? One sage might say, "God has a plan." Another sage with equal insight and understanding might say, "God has no plan." They're both pointing to the same realization and understanding, but they're using different words that appear to be contradictory to the mind. How can someone without their realization know what's being pointed to? This is why each person must find the living truth for him/herself. Here's an example: Jacob Boehm, a Christian mystic, had many CC experiences. He once told a disciple, "If thou cans't for a moment throw thyself into that wherein no creature dwelleth, thou shalt hear unspeakable words of God." What can the mind do with a statement like that? Only someone who has been "where no creature dwelleth" will understand what the words are pointing to. Yes. Here, for example, I would say Gopal has seen only one side of the coin. To put words in his mouth, Gopal says God has a plan, and carries it out, via predeterminism. But I would say there is another side of the coin, God not only allows choice, choice is necessary for the "plan" to be fulfilled. God works within individual choices. A simple example, God does not force a decision to turn right, for God, it doesn't matter if we turn right or left, He/(She) already has an alternative, for our ~wrong~turn. But then also, a coin even has three sides..... Does God have a computer program he uses to keep track of everybody's choices? |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:52:33 GMT -5
Yes. Here, for example, I would say Gopal has seen only one side of the coin. To put words in his mouth, Gopal says God has a plan, and carries it out, via predeterminism. But I would say there is another side of the coin, God not only allows choice, choice is necessary for the "plan" to be fulfilled. God works within individual choices. A simple example, God does not force a decision to turn right, for God, it doesn't matter if we turn right or left, He/(She) already has an alternative, for our ~wrong~turn. But then also, a coin even has three sides..... If you have the choice God can't know the future. If he can't know the future, he can't fulfill his plan. Unless he has a sophisticated program that compensates for everybody's wrong choices.  |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:59:16 GMT -5
Maybe somebody should explain context sometime?? Maybe it's not part of the Divine Plan. I'm pretty sure there's 'context explanation' subroutine somewhere in the Divine Plan Software (DPS) but I don't know what causes it to run. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 20:37:54 GMT -5
Maybe it's not part of the Divine Plan. Ahhhh, ya beat me to it! I was going to say that if there is a divine plan, it obviously includes people arguing about whether there is a divine plan. It's probly a software bug.   |
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It's always the River doin' the work. 
