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Post by silver on Sept 4, 2016 10:24:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we all do interact with our dream characters. Your response makes sense, but doesn't include all the stuff in and of life. I guess that's where and why I hold back from whole-heartedly agreeing. What stuff are you referring to? Dreaming isn't our only 'thing' in life - everything else is in the mix...pancakes, cars, palm trees, fluffy clouds and kittens, etc.  |
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Post by enigma on Sept 4, 2016 10:41:02 GMT -5
What stuff are you referring to? Dreaming isn't our only 'thing' in life - everything else is in the mix...pancakes, cars, palm trees, fluffy clouds and kittens, etc. The dream is an analogy that I used to show that while you interact, you are only interacting with yourself. There is nobody else in your dream but you. This is in response to your comment that it takes two to interact. I'm saying it obviously does not take two. |
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Post by silver on Sept 4, 2016 10:55:44 GMT -5
Dreaming isn't our only 'thing' in life - everything else is in the mix...pancakes, cars, palm trees, fluffy clouds and kittens, etc. The dream is an analogy that I used to show that while you interact, you are only interacting with yourself. There is nobody else in your dream but you. This is in response to your comment that it takes two to interact. I'm saying it obviously does not take two. Ok. I was figuring in the bigger picture. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 4, 2016 20:54:54 GMT -5
The dream is an analogy that I used to show that while you interact, you are only interacting with yourself. There is nobody else in your dream but you. This is in response to your comment that it takes two to interact. I'm saying it obviously does not take two. Ok. I was figuring in the bigger picture. You were curious about this: "How can interaction be, without two?" So I tried to answer your question using the dream analogy as an example of how that can happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 1:36:09 GMT -5
As a teenager, I saw the universe as malevolent, and God as my immortal enemy. Nothing else made sense to me. Later, I came to see it as uncaring, which is to say uninvolved in it's own creation, leaving the chips to fall where they may. Now I know it to be benevolent, and yet explaining how that can be in the face of some unspeakable horrors has escaped me for a long time. Maybe there is a way. We can talk about how the universe unfolds from the perspective of manifestation as the dream forms from within the dream, which places human consciousness center stage in that unfolding. The person does not create his own reality, as there is nothing separate that can create, but this does not mean the thoughts and feelings of the person are not the creative force of the world, only that the individual is not the author of those thought/feelings. Many fear their own negative thoughts, which are themselves borne of fear, but fear is not a part of the force of creation. What you are is God, and God is Love, and Love is the force of creation. Fear is not Love, but rather that which seems to block Love, and in this context, to block the benevolence of the universe; to block your desire. I'm going to make the radical statement that creation is the expression of desire, unrestrained by fear. I understand the difficulty in reconciling that statement with the world as it appears. Desire resides at both conscious and unconscious levels, and they often conflict. To understand unconscious desire one must realize that the unconscious is not rational. That fascination with destructive acts of nature and horrific car crashes, and with evil itself, is innocent and naive and does not account for the human cost of such manifestations. Without benefit of the reasoning mind it has no means of predicting the implications of it's interest, which is sometimes a better word than desire when it comes to creating suffering. From a conscious perspective, it becomes clear why and how we manifest what we do not consciously desire, from that which we unconsciously desire, and in that clarity, the unconscious desire fades. It also becomes clear that the universe is a movement of Love, propelled by sentient desire, given birth through a consciousness that has fallen into it's own dream and temporarily lost it's way. I happened to see this 13 mins after you posted it, thought I'd give it some play before posting. I like everything up until the underlined (but we've been through that before). .....But I don't know how the other stuff gets done if consciousness has fallen into its own dream. The problem is not with God has fallen into his own dream or Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream, but the problem is, Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream through MULTIPLE individuated perspective and it still maintains the integrated expression. God has fallen into his own Dream if other individuals are figments, If other individuals are real, then Universal movements are predetermined by some mysterious force. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 3:15:02 GMT -5
I happened to see this 13 mins after you posted it, thought I'd give it some play before posting. I like everything up until the underlined (but we've been through that before). .....But I don't know how the other stuff gets done if consciousness has fallen into its own dream. The problem is not with God has fallen into his own dream or Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream, but the problem is, Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream through MULTIPLE individuated perspective and it still maintains the integrated expression. God has fallen into his own Dream if other individuals are figments, If other individuals are real, then Universal movements are predetermined by some mysterious force. The mysterious force looks very beautiful. Does it to you? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 3:42:59 GMT -5
The problem is not with God has fallen into his own dream or Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream, but the problem is, Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream through MULTIPLE individuated perspective and it still maintains the integrated expression. God has fallen into his own Dream if other individuals are figments, If other individuals are real, then Universal movements are predetermined by some mysterious force. The mysterious force looks very beautiful. Does it to you? Very Beautiful indeed! I am astonished by the way it works. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 4:15:02 GMT -5
That is a good-sounding response. I find it hard to abandon either view. I say you're imagining the 'answer' and are just like any other person and going with what feels good. There are many ants in a colony - it's always gonna come back to the many unique individuals (even with ants being so similar, heh) and the whole colony. A coin has two sides sorta thing. He's saying "What happens if we stop imagining". Separation is part of what's imagined. He is saying some kind of CC experience he has undergone and through which infinite could perceive itself directly, Do you have any idea what he is talking about and do you have any idea what's the use of this CC experience? |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:17:45 GMT -5
I happened to see this 13 mins after you posted it, thought I'd give it some play before posting. I like everything up until the underlined (but we've been through that before). .....But I don't know how the other stuff gets done if consciousness has fallen into its own dream. The problem is not with God has fallen into his own dream or Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream, but the problem is, Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream through MULTIPLE individuated perspective and it still maintains the integrated expression. God has fallen into his own Dream if other individuals are figments, If other individuals are real, then Universal movements are predetermined by some mysterious force. Individuated perspectives ARE integrated, so of course the expression is integrated. Why is there a problem? |
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2016 18:26:52 GMT -5
He's saying "What happens if we stop imagining". Separation is part of what's imagined. He is saying some kind of CC experience he has undergone and through which infinite could perceive itself directly, Do you have any idea what he is talking about and do you have any idea what's the use of this CC experience? ZD values both experience and realization. I've not had a CC experience or many other mind state experiences that are talked about here. Realizing the nature of experience itself, I have never pursued them. What value they depends on who you ask. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 6, 2016 18:30:52 GMT -5
He is saying some kind of CC experience he has undergone and through which infinite could perceive itself directly, Do you have any idea what he is talking about and do you have any idea what's the use of this CC experience? ZD values both experience and realization. I've not had a CC experience or many other mind state experiences that are talked about here. Realizing the nature of experience itself, I have never pursued them. What value they depends on who you ask. Before the fall of 2009 I would have scoffed at the notion of perfection, and with outright hostility. From 2009 to 2011, I was curious about it, but even more curious about why it wasn't so easy to scoff anymore.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 1:23:16 GMT -5
He is saying some kind of CC experience he has undergone and through which infinite could perceive itself directly, Do you have any idea what he is talking about and do you have any idea what's the use of this CC experience? ZD values both experience and realization. I've not had a CC experience or many other mind state experiences that are talked about here. Realizing the nature of experience itself, I have never pursued them. What value they depends on who you ask. Okay, Usually when he says 'Personal self hood is illusion', it makes perfect sense to me, but still I don't want to argue with ZD because he doesn't want to be challenged. That's the good news |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 4:53:06 GMT -5
The problem is not with God has fallen into his own dream or Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream, but the problem is, Consciousness has fallen into it's own dream through MULTIPLE individuated perspective and it still maintains the integrated expression. God has fallen into his own Dream if other individuals are figments, If other individuals are real, then Universal movements are predetermined by some mysterious force. Individuated perspectives ARE integrated, so of course the expression is integrated. Why is there a problem? I have written here spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/364855 |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 7, 2016 7:04:25 GMT -5
He's saying "What happens if we stop imagining". Separation is part of what's imagined. He is saying some kind of CC experience he has undergone and through which infinite could perceive itself directly, Do you have any idea what he is talking about and do you have any idea what's the use of this CC experience? In "The Wizard of Oz" Dorothy looks behind the curtain and realizes what's going on. A CC experience is very much like that. It's as if the curtain of "ordinary reality" gets pulled away, and one sees behind the screen. Such experiences usually result in multiple realizations. Ironically, when this happens, the see-er does not know who/what is apprehending the Infinite because only the Infinite in an undivided state can apprehend the Infinite. It can see and be, but it cannot intellectually understand; the intellect is rendered thoughtless in this regard for the duration of the seeing. What's the use of such an experience? Well, what was the value of Dorothy seeing what was taking place behind the curtain? Looking behind the curtain reveals an entirely different sort of reality than what most people mistakenly imagine as reality. No words can adequately describe what's seen when the curtain is pulled back. The best that can be said is that reality is a unified living Presence that cannot be comprehended by the intellect. What's the use of it? Well, DH Lawrence captures the flavor of it in one of his poems: "All that matters is to be at one with the living God to be a creature in the house of the God of life. Like a cat asleep on a chair at peace, in peace, and at one with the master of the house, with the mistress, at home, at home in the house of the living, sleeping on the hearth, and yawning before the fire. Sleeping on the hearth of the living world yawning at home before the fire of life feeling the presence of the living God like a great reassurance a deep calm in the heart a presence as of the master sitting at the board in his own and greater being, in the house of life." Discovering what lies behind the curtain is a gift without equal. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 7, 2016 10:51:35 GMT -5
ZD values both experience and realization. I've not had a CC experience or many other mind state experiences that are talked about here. Realizing the nature of experience itself, I have never pursued them. What value they depends on who you ask. Okay, Usually when he says 'Personal self hood is illusion', it makes perfect sense to me, but still I don't want to argue with ZD because he doesn't want to be challenged. That's the good news Why is that good news? |
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