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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 14, 2017 12:28:11 GMT -5
Honestly -- and perhaps it's just my 'limited conception of reality' speaking -- I have a hard time holding interest in this. Maybe as laughy suggests, losing interest is some sort of defense mechanism. dunno. I keep thinking of L. Ron Hubbard. It's in the sci fi genre, and taken seriously enough to overlook the fiction element. And these ideas may 'help' some folks (thinking Tom Cruise right now). From the perspective of realizing Truth, however, it seems like another long detour and distraction. And yes, they are all detours. Even the most Direct Path is a detour fer crissakes. I am a nuts and bolts person, I like to see all the machinery, how everything is put together, all the pulleys and levers. I guess enough said (or not). ericweiss.com/doctrine-of-the-subtle-worlds |
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 14, 2017 14:32:51 GMT -5
Honestly -- and perhaps it's just my 'limited conception of reality' speaking -- I have a hard time holding interest in this. Maybe as laughy suggests, losing interest is some sort of defense mechanism. dunno. I keep thinking of L. Ron Hubbard. It's in the sci fi genre, and taken seriously enough to overlook the fiction element. And these ideas may 'help' some folks (thinking Tom Cruise right now). From the perspective of realizing Truth, however, it seems like another long detour and distraction. And yes, they are all detours. Even the most Direct Path is a detour fer crissakes. I had a similar reaction to Seth last year because I didn't see the practical implications to everyday life. Now I can clearly see it and how it actually dovetails nicely with the A-H stuff. Problem is, I have a similar reaction to the A-H stuff. |
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Post by zin on Jul 17, 2017 20:27:56 GMT -5
As I mentioned earlier, your thoughts have a very definite vital reality. Beliefs are thoughts reinforced by imagination and emotion concerning the nature of your reality.
Now thoughts in general possess an electromagnetic reality, but whether you know it or not, they also have an inner sound value.
You know the importance of exterior sound. It is used as a method of communication, but it is also a by-product of any other events, and it affects the physical atmosphere. Now the same is true about what I will call inner sound, the sound of your thoughts within your own head. I am not speaking here of body noises, though you are usually oblivious to these also.
Inner sounds have an even greater effect than exterior ones upon your body. They affect the atoms and molecules that compose your cells. In many respects it is true to say that you speak your body, but the speaking is interior. The same kind of sound built the Pyramids, and it was not sound that you would hear with your physical ears. Such inner sound forms your bone and flesh. The sound exists connected with but quite apart from the mental words you use in thinking. (...)
It does not matter in which language you are addressing yourself, for example. The sound is formed by your intent, and the same intent —I am putting this simply now— will have the same sound effect upon the body regardless of the words used. But usually you think in your own language, and so in quite practical terms the words and the intent merge. For all practical purposes then the two are one. (session 623 - bolding mine)
Verbal suggestions are translated into inner sound. (624)
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Post by laughter on Jul 18, 2017 8:55:53 GMT -5
" The fact of this book is proof that the ego does not have the whole kettle of
personality to itself, for there is no doubt that it is being produced by some other
personality than that of the writer known as Jane Roberts. Since that Jane Roberts has no abilities that are not inherent in the species as a whole, then at the very least it must be admitted that human personality has many more attributes than those usually ascribed to it. I hope to explain what these abilities are, and point out the ways that each individual can use to release these potentials." Perhaps Jane had no doubt of this, but the material can be read in such a way as to make this idea a nonissue. A fish doesn't swim it is swum, a bird doesn't fly it is flown. Jane didn't speak, she was spoken. So, like, whatever.  |
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Post by Reefs on Jul 21, 2017 9:58:32 GMT -5
As far as I understand Seth now, I think you could easily replace emotion with vibration in that quote. Seth talks about how every cell has its own individual consciousness and never loses it even though the cell becomes part of an organ or a body. This applies also to people, groups and societies. A-H would say it's all a matter of co-creation. I actually do think people see thru the script more and more because the population has evolved, the methods of controlling the population somehow are still the same. And so you can see more and more cases where the script is malfunctioning. If you compare your reaction 30 years ago to a news headline and your reaction today to a news headline, do you see any difference? Seth: "There are units of consciousness, then, as there are units of matter. ...The basic unit of consciousness obviously is not physical. It contains within itself innate infinite properties of expansion, development, and organization... It is aware energy, identified within itself as itself, not "personified" but awarized. It is therefore the source of all kinds of consciousness, and the varieties of its activity are infinite. It combines with others of its kind, forming then units of consciousness -- as, mentioned often, atoms and molecules combine. This basic unit is endowed with unpredictability. That very unpredictability allows for infinite patterns and fulfillments. ...Their nature is the vitalizing force behind everything in your physical universe, and others as well. These units can indeed appear in several places at once, and without going through space, in your terms. Literally now, these basic units of consciousness can be in all places at once. They are in all places at once. They will not be recognized because they will always appear as something else. Of course they move faster than light. There are millions of them in one atom -- millions. Each of these units is aware of the reality of the others, and influences of the others. In your terms these units move forward and backward in time, but they can also move into thresholds of time with which you are not familiar. All probabilities are probed and experienced, and all possible universes created from these units. ...There are systems in which a moment, from your standpoint, is made to endure for the life of a universe. ...there is more creativity and variety in an inner reality than you can ever physically perceive. ...Since these units of consciousness exist at once, they are aware of all the organized self-structures of which they are a part. ...These units grow out of themselves. Since I have told you that in your terms your past, present, and future exist at once, these units are constantly emerging out of your now-point from both the future and the past. (Talks some about Jane's probable selves, note sdp). ...The larger picture is somewhat more difficult -- by far -- to express. ...I am saying I am now ready to lead you beyond those necessary preliminaries. All matter is based on the units mentioned, with their unpredictability and their propensity for exploring all probabilities. Even your atomic structure , then, is poised between probabilities. if this is true, then obviously "you" are aware of only one small probable portion of yourself -- and this portion you protect as your identity (underlined). If you think of it as simply a focus taken by "your" greater identity, then you will be able to follow what I am saying without feeling puny by contrast, or lost. ....Now: Because your greater identity is aware of its probable existences, you are in matter and out of it at the same time -- in time and out of it. You have a greater identity outside of your context, yet a part of it is inside your context, as you. Your youness is your significance, a focus of awareness, conscious of itself, ...That selfhood jumps in leapfrog fashion over events that it does not want to actualize, and does not admit such experience into its selfhood. Other portions of your greater identity, however, do accept those same events rejected by you, form their own selfhoods. ...When you exercise your right arm, your left arm benefits". pgs 39-44 Now: We will call the basic units of consciousness "CU" -- the letter "C", the letter "U" -- consciousness units. pg 54 The Unknown Reality, volume one, a Seth book The "CU" reminds me of the monads of Leibniz. Some of you will note that the second and third paragraphs are discussing the quantum nature of these "CU". Hey SDP. Just wanted to give you some feedback. I came across those quotes in the Seth book you mentioned (I'm reading the sessions in chronological order). Reminded me of our 'everything is cheese conversation' a while back. What I find cool about Seth is that he gives us a whole new framework. The ND framework or popular new age framework is of no use here. CU explains why everything in the physical realm is indeed conscious (including what we usually consider inanimate). In fact, EVERYTHING that has form is conscious no matter what realm (including dream state figures). Also, CU reminds me of what A-H call 'points of consciousness'. The probable selves stuff is quite a whopper in the beginning but after more than 4000 pages of Seth I think I've been sufficiently brainwashed now so that I am slowly getting the hang of it. It seemed like absurd TMT in the beginning but now I can see clearly the practical implications in our everyday life. Who would have thunk? Awesome stuff! |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 21, 2017 14:44:44 GMT -5
Seth: "There are units of consciousness, then, as there are units of matter. ...The basic unit of consciousness obviously is not physical. It contains within itself innate infinite properties of expansion, development, and organization... It is aware energy, identified within itself as itself, not "personified" but awarized. It is therefore the source of all kinds of consciousness, and the varieties of its activity are infinite. It combines with others of its kind, forming then units of consciousness -- as, mentioned often, atoms and molecules combine. This basic unit is endowed with unpredictability. That very unpredictability allows for infinite patterns and fulfillments. ...Their nature is the vitalizing force behind everything in your physical universe, and others as well. These units can indeed appear in several places at once, and without going through space, in your terms. Literally now, these basic units of consciousness can be in all places at once. They are in all places at once. They will not be recognized because they will always appear as something else. Of course they move faster than light. There are millions of them in one atom -- millions. Each of these units is aware of the reality of the others, and influences of the others. In your terms these units move forward and backward in time, but they can also move into thresholds of time with which you are not familiar. All probabilities are probed and experienced, and all possible universes created from these units. ...There are systems in which a moment, from your standpoint, is made to endure for the life of a universe. ...there is more creativity and variety in an inner reality than you can ever physically perceive. ...Since these units of consciousness exist at once, they are aware of all the organized self-structures of which they are a part. ...These units grow out of themselves. Since I have told you that in your terms your past, present, and future exist at once, these units are constantly emerging out of your now-point from both the future and the past. (Talks some about Jane's probable selves, note sdp). ...The larger picture is somewhat more difficult -- by far -- to express. ...I am saying I am now ready to lead you beyond those necessary preliminaries. All matter is based on the units mentioned, with their unpredictability and their propensity for exploring all probabilities. Even your atomic structure , then, is poised between probabilities. if this is true, then obviously "you" are aware of only one small probable portion of yourself -- and this portion you protect as your identity (underlined). If you think of it as simply a focus taken by "your" greater identity, then you will be able to follow what I am saying without feeling puny by contrast, or lost. ....Now: Because your greater identity is aware of its probable existences, you are in matter and out of it at the same time -- in time and out of it. You have a greater identity outside of your context, yet a part of it is inside your context, as you. Your youness is your significance, a focus of awareness, conscious of itself, ...That selfhood jumps in leapfrog fashion over events that it does not want to actualize, and does not admit such experience into its selfhood. Other portions of your greater identity, however, do accept those same events rejected by you, form their own selfhoods. ...When you exercise your right arm, your left arm benefits". pgs 39-44 Now: We will call the basic units of consciousness "CU" -- the letter "C", the letter "U" -- consciousness units. pg 54 The Unknown Reality, volume one, a Seth book The "CU" reminds me of the monads of Leibniz. Some of you will note that the second and third paragraphs are discussing the quantum nature of these "CU". Hey SDP. Just wanted to give you some feedback. I came across those quotes in the Seth book you mentioned (I'm reading the sessions in chronological order). Reminded me of our 'everything is cheese conversation' a while back. What I find cool about Seth is that he gives us a whole new framework. The ND framework or popular new age framework is of no use here. CU explains why everything in the physical realm is indeed conscious (including what we usually consider inanimate). In fact, EVERYTHING that has form is conscious no matter what realm (including dream state figures). Also, CU reminds me of what A-H call 'points of consciousness'. The probable selves stuff is quite a whopper in the beginning but after more than 4000 pages of Seth I think I've been sufficiently brainwashed now so that I am slowly getting the hang of it. It seemed like absurd TMT in the beginning but now I can see clearly the practical implications in our everyday life. Who would have thunk? Awesome stuff! A very well accepted quantum-explanation theory by physicists today is the multiverse theory. It basically states that for every alternative choice in life, both choices are actualized, but in different universes. The implication for this is at every choice, a new universe comes into being, for example, one for turning right at the stop sign, one for turning left at the stop sign. If you turned left, in another universe ~you~ turned right. This seems absurd to me, and it seems to break the first thermodynamic rule that energy is neither created or destroyed. So the point I'm will make is that there is only one "material" universe where choices are actualized, probable choices exist in another dimension. Life, the universe and decisions are like a branching tree. Say there is an ant crawling up a tree, it can keep crawling up the trunk or it can crawl out on a limb. It crawls out a random limb, and then it comes yet again to a crossroads of branching limbs, say A or B, it crawls up B. FAIAP A now only exists in a probable not-chosen past. Ant now exists in a moment of time between the not-chosen past and probable futures. Ant comes to another choice of branches, B4 or B5. B4 and B5 exist as probable futures. A choice is actualized, B5. Now, if you look at the average tree, there may be another 10-12 of these choices, and ant eventually reaches a final branch, and final leaf. If you look at the whole tree, there are thousands of end-points that the ant could have reached. Only one as actualized, all the others remain in the world of probability. But although the ~actual ant~ ends up at only one tip of a branch, in another dimension of probability, every possible path of the ant exists in a very real way, just not in our physical universe. I've done threads on dimensions before, so just briefly. A point is zero dimensional. If you extend that point, you have a line, one dimension. If you extend the line you have a plane, two dimensions (Abbott writes of this world in Flatland). If you extend a line, you get a 3-D object. How do you extend a 3-D object? You move it. This creates time, a movement from here to there, so space-time is the 4th dimension. So then take one moment of space-time, what happens if you extend it? You make a record of the singular moment, so the 5th dimension is a record of every moment of time, eternity. Eternity is not the extension of time into the future. So now we come to the sixth dimension, the world of probability, what didn't get actualized and the probable world of what might be actualized, in time. I think this is Seth's universe of probability, someone, (I think John C Lilly) called it Alternity. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 24, 2017 14:18:13 GMT -5
"You could see a phosphorescentlike glow, the aura of electromagnetic "structures" that compose the molecules themselves. You could, if you wished, condense your consciousness until it was small enough to travel through a single molecule, and from the molecule's own world look out and survey the universe of the room and the gigantic galaxy of interrelated, ever-moving starlike shapes. Now all of these possibilities represent a legitimate reality. Yours is no more legitimate than any other, but it is the only one that you perceive." The other day after a meditation outdoors on the bench beside the track I did something I hadn't done in a long time. I was looking down and it occurred to me just how numerous the blades of grass on the ground were. This state of mind used to occur to me out of the blue from time-to-time over the years long before I read Tolle. I recall the deepest states of it from when I was a child. It's really quite remarkable just how much detail there is at ground level in the grass. If nothing else, it's a mind blower to try to get a realistic feel for just how long it would take you to count all the blades within your line of sight. I maintained this communion as I walked onto the blacktop where my car was parked. The nature of the detail on that surface is quite different but no less of an intensity. It's of course, a completely different vibe.  The flip side to this is the surface of a freshwater lake on a still day, which is none the less awesome .. but of course one must disregard the fact of the reflections from the surface. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 1, 2017 10:09:15 GMT -5
Consciousness comes first
Seth: The atoms and molecules that make up all physical cells are not basically bound by your time. They act within the framework of your time, but the condensed knowledge that they contain carries with it its own peculiar and unique consciousness, that is not bound by your physical laws. Chemicals themselves will simply not give rise to consciousness or to life. Your scientists will simply have to face the facts that consciousness comes first, and evolves its own form. But this is, and involves, individuality, and also interdependence. The physical body that you imagine consists of some sort of separate consciousness, controlling a framework of completely unconscious parts, is quite farfetched.
The molecules and atoms and even smaller particles, all contain their separate consciousness. They form into cells. Now, although the cells maintain individuality and do not lose any of their abilities, in this formation into cells there is actually a pooling of individual consciousness of atoms and molecules into, and to form, an individual cellular consciousness. Here the consciousness of each individual molecule or atom, by this psychic gestalt, gains immeasurably. The combination of individual consciousness into a combination forms a new, enlarged, more powerful cellular consciousness that is capable of much more experience and fulfillment than would be possible for the isolated atom or molecule.
Now we carry this even further. You end up with organs composed of literally unnumbered individual cells, in which case the same combination with its resulting benefits for the individual, also results in the formation of a larger consciousness. This goes on ad infinitum, and yet even the lowest particle retains its own individuality, and is not stripped of any ability. Indeed, its ability is multiplied a millionfold. The cooperative nature of the physical body could be no mere result of your chemicals, and chemical reactions. The consciousness forms its own materialization.
(Session 50)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 2, 2017 7:48:49 GMT -5
Each individual inhabits a completely different world
Seth: You see, or are aware of, only your own idea constructions. Basically each individual inhabits a completely different world. As you are not aware of many so-called realities with which your own cat is familiar, so you are completely unaware of other universes that coexist with your own. Your outer senses are equipped to perceive your own camouflage patterns. They are not equipped to deal with other camouflage patterns. The camouflage patterns within your own physical universe are coherent enough so that all individuals of a given species appear to perceive more or less the same surroundings. There are groupings of perceptions belonging to various species, but all of these perceptions are not inherent in each species. The fact is, that even in your own universe all of your camouflage forms are not perceived by any one species, your own included.
At best your scientists will only discover more of these camouflage patterns, but the entire system will simply not be perceived by any one species, and you will never perceive camouflage patterns outside of your own patterns. You are simply blocked in the pursuit of knowledge beyond a certain point as long as your scientists persist in the lines of their present development. The inner senses can perceive other camouflage patterns, with training.
There are universes coexistent with your own, but your camouflage outer senses cannot perceive these. Nor with your limited cause and effect theories will you ever get very far. The cause and effect theory is a result of your ideas of time. As long as you persist in thinking in terms of past, present and future, then the cause and effect theory is a logical and seemingly infallible result. When you develop your time theory and realize that present, past and future are merely effects and distortions caused by your own perspective, then your scientists will realize that cause and effect is a passe and antiquated theory, useful only for a short time and should be discarded.
(Session 51)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 3, 2017 2:54:47 GMT -5
The self and its arbitrary boundaries
Seth: The boundaries, limitations, extent and vistas of the self are merely arbitrary. In a very true sense each self is infinite, unbounded, connected in a most intimate way to all other things in the universe on your plane; and through the inner senses and the inner ego connected also in a most intimate way to the unknown and unseen inner universe. Any particular self theoretically could expand his consciousness to contain the universe and everything in it. The closed-in, solitary, isolated self of which you are so proud is, as I have said, an arbitrary formation, containing the core of identity; and you seem to prefer, psychically speaking, to stay at home.
Man, staying within the core of his arbitrarily designated selfhood, can in truth be compared to early physical man, cowering within his cave. You have learned to venture forth into the physical universe. You have not learned to venture forth from an arbitrarily designated selfhood, into an extended environment that knows no space or time. Such a possibility, such a future development in no way involves a denial of self, a dissolving or sweeping away of self, an annihilation of self. Many cavemen doubtlessly feared for their personal survival when they ventured forth upon the earth in daylight.
This arbitrary limitation set upon the individual self is put upon it by its reliance upon the outer senses, as a method of perceiving reality. The outer senses are excellent tools of perception for limited circumstances. However, man has relied upon them so long, and with such cringing dependence, that now they threaten to hamper his own growth and development. The expanding self, ideally, would reach out beyond the arbitrary boundaries it has placed upon itself. Again, there just is not any particular boundary between what is self and what is not self. There are gradations, and that is all.
(Session 55)
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Post by zin on Aug 3, 2017 9:00:50 GMT -5
Physically, your body must follow the nature into which you were born, and in that context the cycle of youth and age is highly important. In some ways, the rhythm of birth and death is like a breath taken and exhaled. Feel your own breath as it comes and goes. You are not it, yet it comes into you and leaves you, and without its continuous flow you could not physically exist. Just so your lives go in and out of you — you and yet not you. And a portion of you, while letting them all go, remembers them and knows their journey.
Imagine where your breath goes when it leaves your body, how it escapes through an open window perhaps and becomes a part of the space outside, where you would never recognize it — and when it has left you it is no longer a part of what you are, for you are already different. So the lives you have lived are not you, while they are of you.
Close your eyes. Think of your breaths as lives, and you the entity through which they have passed and are passing. Then you will feel your state of grace, and all artificial guilts will be meaningless. None of this negates the supreme and utter integrity of your individuality, for you are as well the individual entity through whom the lives flow, and the unique lives that are expressed through you.
No one atom of air is like another. Each in its own way is aware and capable of entering into greater transformations and organizations, filled with infinite potential. As your breath leaves you and becomes part of the world, free, so do your lives leave you and continue to exist in your terms. You cannot confine a personality that you 'were' to a particular century that is finished and deny it other fulfillments, for even now it exists and has fresh experience. As your moment of reflection gave birth to consciousness as you think of it —for both really came together— so then can another phenomenon and kind of reflection give birth to at least some dim conscious awareness of the vast dimensions of your own reality.
The animal moves, say, through a forest. You move through psychic, psychological and mental areas in the same way. Through his senses the animal gets messages from distant areas that he cannot directly perceive, and of which he is largely unaware. And so do you.
(session 636)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 4, 2017 10:27:21 GMT -5
Form, matter, objects (1)
Seth: Form is not a characteristic of matter, despite appearances. Matter in itself does not possess durability. It is in itself therefore incapable of either growth or deterioration in your terms. Matter is, as you know, formed. Matter is the result of molecular composition. An object is composed of matter, this is true. Your outer senses then perceive the matter as particular, differentiated, separate objects. Objects exist, and yet objects in another sense do not exist.
I have told you, for example, how you and others construct say, a television set, a chair, an image or a table. Using energy, you manipulate existing atoms and molecules into a certain pattern which you then, and others like you, recognize as one particular object. The object then does, in this sense, exist. The fact is, however, that it exists as a particular object because of your intimate construction of it into a particular pattern, and because of the recognition you give it.
The space between this couch and table is as filled with molecular structure as either the space taken up by the couch, or the space taken up by the table. The matter contained within the space taken up by the distance between them, is all the same. You simply have not constructed of the atoms and molecules any pattern which you call an object, and which you recognize. Objects then are really arbitrary designations given to certain arbitrary divisions of atoms and molecules as a whole. There is no objective universe, and yet there is an objective universe.
(Session 72)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 5, 2017 8:31:32 GMT -5
Form, matter, objects (2)
Seth: You must act as if there were an objective universe. The world, or field, that you presently inhabit is real, definite on your level. The fact that its reality is only limited to your level, and does not extend to other fields, must not tempt you to discount it; and yet while you must behave in a large manner as if your universe were inherently and basically objective, you must still retain the knowledge that this apparent objectivity has great limits, even practically speaking; and a too-great dependence in a world of objectivity can lead to a psychic imprisonment which is unnecessary. Matter is not an imprisoning form. It is a means by which consciousness expresses itself within the limits of the physical field.
Objects therefore, are arbitrary designations, divisions that you set up. You perceive portions of the endless sea of molecular constructions. You form portions into separate objects that are actually no more separate or different from the whole sea than is one burst of seaspray from another. That is, one burst of sea spray, while separate for a moment, is like all other sea spray in its basic components and construction. Form is not a characteristic of matter. You will have to look elsewhere for durability and form. Your cause and effect theory, again, is responsible here for many distortions, such as the idea that the matter of say, a flower, grows from matter of a seed directly. Such is not the case.
(Session 72)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 6, 2017 4:28:56 GMT -5
Energy, form, consciousness
Seth: Energy constantly changes. Form is not a characteristic of energy, any more than it is a characteristic of matter. As a rule no form imposed upon energy can long endure. The form cannot long endure. The consciousness behind the form, that imposes the form, does endure; because while energy continually changes and does not retain imposed form, it is in itself conscious, and its consciousness endures.
(Session 72)
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Post by Reefs on Aug 6, 2017 20:37:57 GMT -5
Physical structures vs. psychological structures (1)
Seth: While form is not a characteristic of matter, it is one of the characteristics of consciousness. The form which consciousness takes is usually composed of matter on your plane. The form perceived by your outer senses is always composed of matter, of course. There are also however forms or structures that are what you may call psychological forms or structures, even within your own field, which you do not perceive with your outer senses, but which are nevertheless frameworks that underlie form as it appears in matter.
These psychological forms or structures have a reality and validity, composed of gestalts that exist in perspectives that you do not recognize. Each consciousness, besides the material structure or material form, also possesses a psychological structure that exists in a depth and solidity in another perspective which the outer senses do not perceive. Here you will find the entity. Consciousness adopts many forms, in as many various perspectives as it is capable of manifesting itself. Consciousness actually creates these perspectives, in which it can then manifest itself in form.
(Session 73)
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