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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 10, 2015 10:41:07 GMT -5
"Self-existence can be visualized as volcanic islands projecting above the sea. Underneath they all slope into the substrate in which they are one. And the sea is our deluded thought." "The self is a temporary manifestation of the unbroken web of causation. In some senses it exists, and in others it does not. Therefore I speak of the self as existing to convey one point, and as not existing to convey another. It is the meaning that matters, not the words." -- "Adam and Eve were commanded by God not to eat from the tree of knowledge - the tree that would give knowledge of values. But they were hungry. Before the sorry moment, the happy couple were free of self- consciousness, and felt no need to cover their bodies with clothing. But upon eating the fruit their minds filled with self-serving ideas and false values. There was separation, "self" and "other" - two things instead of the One. With the birth of self-consciousness was born insecurity - and they covered their now "private" parts with leaves. I am reminded of the Buddhist sage Manjushri, who while travelling allowed a thought to arise in his mind. Immediately two iron mountains rose out of the ground to block his way." -- "Life is like the breath of a buffalo on a winter's morning." -- "The spiritual man is a gad-fly. Or he is a termite, who reminds a house's occupants of its temporary nature. He is the conscience of society. We build castles for ourselves, islands of permanence in a changing world. We try to create our own heaven, cutting ourselves off from the real world in the process. The job of a termite is no small one." ~ Kevin Solway
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Post by silver on Nov 10, 2015 11:46:06 GMT -5
Ah...These are my favorites, max:
"Life is like the breath of a buffalo on a winter's morning."
--
"The spiritual man is a gad-fly. Or he is a termite, who reminds a house's occupants of its temporary nature. He is the conscience of society.
We build castles for ourselves, islands of permanence in a changing world. We try to create our own heaven, cutting ourselves off from the real world in the process. The job of a termite is no small one."
~ Kevin Solway
*~*~*~*~*&~
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 10, 2015 13:18:11 GMT -5
"In the end, the whole spiritual path to enlightenment boils down to belief. Not in the sense of blindly accepting articles of faith, but in the sense of having utter conviction in the truth. You really have to believe, with the whole of your being, in what you know to be true. Intellectually, you know that everything is nirvana. So believe it. And keep believing it, over and over, all the time, no matter what the situation. If you can apply this belief in a sustained manner, you will find yourself on the other side of the road in no time. Indeed, you will find that there has never been any road in the first place." ~ David Quinn Seems like heresy in a beyond belief forum such as this. But it reminded me of the Naam Mantra -- just another tool to leave beliefs behind (ironically, in this case).
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Post by quinn on Nov 10, 2015 16:53:26 GMT -5
"In the end, the whole spiritual path to enlightenment boils down to belief. Not in the sense of blindly accepting articles of faith, but in the sense of having utter conviction in the truth. You really have to believe, with the whole of your being, in what you know to be true. Intellectually, you know that everything is nirvana. So believe it. And keep believing it, over and over, all the time, no matter what the situation. If you can apply this belief in a sustained manner, you will find yourself on the other side of the road in no time. Indeed, you will find that there has never been any road in the first place." ~ David Quinn Seems like heresy in a beyond belief forum such as this. But it reminded me of the Naam Mantra -- just another tool to leave beliefs behind (ironically, in this case). Reminded me of this: My Guru told me: “...Go back to that state of pure being, where the ‘I am’ is still in its purity before it got contaminated with ‘I am this’ or ‘I am that.’ Your burden is of false self-identifications—abandon them all.” My guru told me, “Trust me, I tell you: you are Divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, your will alone is done.” I did believe him and soon realized how wonderfully true and accurate were his words. I did not condition my mind by thinking, “I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond.” I simply followed his instruction, which was to focus the mind on pure being, “I am,” and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the “I am” in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared—myself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence. (I Am That, Dialogue 51, April 16, 1971) Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 10, 2015 17:50:04 GMT -5
"In the end, the whole spiritual path to enlightenment boils down to belief. Not in the sense of blindly accepting articles of faith, but in the sense of having utter conviction in the truth. You really have to believe, with the whole of your being, in what you know to be true. Intellectually, you know that everything is nirvana. So believe it. And keep believing it, over and over, all the time, no matter what the situation. If you can apply this belief in a sustained manner, you will find yourself on the other side of the road in no time. Indeed, you will find that there has never been any road in the first place." ~ David Quinn Seems like heresy in a beyond belief forum such as this. But it reminded me of the Naam Mantra -- just another tool to leave beliefs behind (ironically, in this case). Reminded me of this: My Guru told me: “...Go back to that state of pure being, where the ‘I am’ is still in its purity before it got contaminated with ‘I am this’ or ‘I am that.’ Your burden is of false self-identifications—abandon them all.” My guru told me, “Trust me, I tell you: you are Divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, your will alone is done.” I did believe him and soon realized how wonderfully true and accurate were his words. I did not condition my mind by thinking, “I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond.” I simply followed his instruction, which was to focus the mind on pure being, “I am,” and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the “I am” in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared—myself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence. (I Am That, Dialogue 51, April 16, 1971) Nisargadatta Maharaj yea, apparently Niz got the Naam mantra from his guru.
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Post by quinn on Nov 10, 2015 21:19:17 GMT -5
Reminded me of this: My Guru told me: “...Go back to that state of pure being, where the ‘I am’ is still in its purity before it got contaminated with ‘I am this’ or ‘I am that.’ Your burden is of false self-identifications—abandon them all.” My guru told me, “Trust me, I tell you: you are Divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, your will alone is done.” I did believe him and soon realized how wonderfully true and accurate were his words. I did not condition my mind by thinking, “I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond.” I simply followed his instruction, which was to focus the mind on pure being, “I am,” and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the “I am” in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared—myself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence. (I Am That, Dialogue 51, April 16, 1971) Nisargadatta Maharaj yea, apparently Niz got the Naam mantra from his guru. One of the guys in my Adya group said, "I've decided to just believe that I'm already enlightened and keep believing it until it's true". And my immediate reaction was, "Oh, no no". Still have no idea if I was right or wrong, but I do have trouble reconciling holding a belief (beneficial though it may be) with radical honesty.
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 11, 2015 10:14:43 GMT -5
yea, apparently Niz got the Naam mantra from his guru. One of the guys in my Adya group said, "I've decided to just believe that I'm already enlightened and keep believing it until it's true". And my immediate reaction was, "Oh, no no". Still have no idea if I was right or wrong, but I do have trouble reconciling holding a belief (beneficial though it may be) with radical honesty. Yes this is why I've preferred the neti neti approach. But I wonder if Niz would have had his breakthrough just doing neti neti, or whether he needed that positive aspect too -- 'I am That.' John Wheeler recommended both positive and negative, depending.
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Post by quinn on Nov 11, 2015 10:44:29 GMT -5
One of the guys in my Adya group said, "I've decided to just believe that I'm already enlightened and keep believing it until it's true". And my immediate reaction was, "Oh, no no". Still have no idea if I was right or wrong, but I do have trouble reconciling holding a belief (beneficial though it may be) with radical honesty. Yes this is why I've preferred the neti neti approach. But I wonder if Niz would have had his breakthrough just doing neti neti, or whether he needed that positive aspect too -- 'I am That.' John Wheeler recommended both positive and negative, depending. Can you summarize 'depending' on what? Or do I need to go read me some John Wheeler.
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 11, 2015 13:47:30 GMT -5
Yes this is why I've preferred the neti neti approach. But I wonder if Niz would have had his breakthrough just doing neti neti, or whether he needed that positive aspect too -- 'I am That.' John Wheeler recommended both positive and negative, depending. Can you summarize 'depending' on what? Or do I need to go read me some John Wheeler. I don't know where you'd read it. I was talking with him and he recommended the positive approach, maybe sensing that I was a bit of a neti-neti-head. Paraphrasing, the advice was something like 'focus on what you are.' Pretty much the opposite of neti neti, or, what's left after neti neti has run its course. ZD rung the same bell when he said 'you know what you are not, but you don't know what you are.' That was about 5 years ago in the RT thread. Methinks he was speaking to ciaran or stepvhen at the time. FWIW, this is how I understand Ramana M's 'Who Am I' inquiry, and, as you pointed out Niz' 'I am That.' I just have an allergy to affirmations, and probably have unfairly lumped this positive approach into that category. Or possibly it is the recalcitrant skeptic, or just being dense (which is highly probable).
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Post by quinn on Nov 11, 2015 19:49:10 GMT -5
Can you summarize 'depending' on what? Or do I need to go read me some John Wheeler. I don't know where you'd read it. I was talking with him and he recommended the positive approach, maybe sensing that I was a bit of a neti-neti-head. Paraphrasing, the advice was something like 'focus on what you are.' Pretty much the opposite of neti neti, or, what's left after neti neti has run its course. ZD rung the same bell when he said 'you know what you are not, but you don't know what you are.' That was about 5 years ago in the RT thread. Methinks he was speaking to ciaran or stepvhen at the time. FWIW, this is how I understand Ramana M's 'Who Am I' inquiry, and, as you pointed out Niz' 'I am That.' I just have an allergy to affirmations, and probably have unfairly lumped this positive approach into that category. Or possibly it is the recalcitrant skeptic, or just being dense (which is highly probable). Oh, I have the same allergy, so I get it. So the "depends", possibly, could be some sort of offset to the neti-neti approach? Or to round it out. Hummm...I'll have to let that percolate a little. The idea of accepting a particular version of what This is or who I am is seems really counter to finding out for oneself. I also have a sense that there really isn't an answer, just a disappearance of the questions. But, of course, I don't know. So you spoke with John Wheeler,then. He has a few books on Amazon and some stuff on YouTube.
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Tor Hershman
New Member
The Amazon River Of Consciousness
Posts: 24
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Post by Tor Hershman on Nov 12, 2015 13:28:26 GMT -5
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 12, 2015 18:36:33 GMT -5
I don't know where you'd read it. I was talking with him and he recommended the positive approach, maybe sensing that I was a bit of a neti-neti-head. Paraphrasing, the advice was something like 'focus on what you are.' Pretty much the opposite of neti neti, or, what's left after neti neti has run its course. ZD rung the same bell when he said 'you know what you are not, but you don't know what you are.' That was about 5 years ago in the RT thread. Methinks he was speaking to ciaran or stepvhen at the time. FWIW, this is how I understand Ramana M's 'Who Am I' inquiry, and, as you pointed out Niz' 'I am That.' I just have an allergy to affirmations, and probably have unfairly lumped this positive approach into that category. Or possibly it is the recalcitrant skeptic, or just being dense (which is highly probable). Oh, I have the same allergy, so I get it. So the "depends", possibly, could be some sort of offset to the neti-neti approach? Or to round it out. Hummm...I'll have to let that percolate a little. The idea of accepting a particular version of what This is or who I am is seems really counter to finding out for oneself. I also have a sense that there really isn't an answer, just a disappearance of the questions. But, of course, I don't know. So you spoke with John Wheeler,then. He has a few books on Amazon and some stuff on YouTube. Yes. He's a technical writer by trade. I find his writing very simple and clear. And he's straightforward and down to earth when talking to him. He's in the Niz line (via Sailor Bob).
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Post by quinn on Nov 12, 2015 19:49:13 GMT -5
Oh, I have the same allergy, so I get it. So the "depends", possibly, could be some sort of offset to the neti-neti approach? Or to round it out. Hummm...I'll have to let that percolate a little. The idea of accepting a particular version of what This is or who I am is seems really counter to finding out for oneself. I also have a sense that there really isn't an answer, just a disappearance of the questions. But, of course, I don't know. So you spoke with John Wheeler,then. He has a few books on Amazon and some stuff on YouTube. Yes. He's a technical writer by trade. I find his writing very simple and clear. And he's straightforward and down to earth when talking to him. He's in the Niz line (via Sailor Bob). Ok - thanks.
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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 13, 2015 7:07:45 GMT -5
Yes. He's a technical writer by trade. I find his writing very simple and clear. And he's straightforward and down to earth when talking to him. He's in the Niz line (via Sailor Bob). Ok - thanks. Check this out for example: Review of the Basics. Sound familiar?
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 9:05:38 GMT -5
If there was no doubts, no resistance, no curiosity, if there was no fire at all, you'd either be dead or free.
Mooji
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