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Post by figgles on Sept 14, 2016 11:01:02 GMT -5
Yes. In saying that, you are speaking from the context where eyes see and can have deficiencies with seeing...and where it's acknowledged that glasses are worn to see clearly. & in speaking from that context, It doesn't mean you suddenly lost knowledge/understanding that eyes, defeciencies, and glasses are all appearances.  I am looking through the imaginary eyes, It creates the perception as if I possesses slight power. So I wearing a glasses which is an appearance again. Yes, I was just trying to point out that speaking from the context where eyes see and glasses help, does not mean a denial of the context where all is an appearance. This is similar to the short convo E and I had about using sunscreen, & that we are both aware that means we've bought in a little bit to the idea that we'll get burned by the sun without it, (even though we both can also see that the sun and the skin and the burn are all appearances....& from that vantage point, sun doesn't actually burn skin) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:02:22 GMT -5
can you remind me of what this is about please? If you want to trace out a particular conversation, Just click 'about an ago' or '2 hour ago' in the top of that message, it would lead you to that particular conversation, In that way you could trace out the entire conversation. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 14, 2016 11:02:41 GMT -5
You can't know that. But to even speak about it you have to define "exist in itself". At most you can only say, for me, I consider it to be the case there is no external world. To try to say more you are marching off to La-La Land. I understand the problem here. The reason I believe that outer world doesn't exist is, Perceiver is attached part of perception. When you put your glasses on in the morning, you believe they exist regardless of whether they, and the world, exists or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:04:11 GMT -5
I am looking through the imaginary eyes, It creates the perception as if I possesses slight power. So I wearing a glasses which is an appearance again. Yes, I was just trying to point out that speaking from the context where eyes see and glasses help, does not mean a denial of the context where all is an appearance. This is similar to the short convo E and I had about using sunscreen, & that we are both aware that means we've bought in a little bit to the idea that we'll get burned by the sun without it, (even though we both can also see that the sun and the skin and the burn are all appearances....& from that vantage point, sun doesn't actually burn skin) Okay. But andrew fails to understand this logic, That's what cause of Gopal's worry. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:05:03 GMT -5
It builds universe in nightly dream, So where is the problem? are you saying that gopal falls asleep and has nightly dreams? Consciousness creates the entire nightly dream, In the same it creates the entire physical dream. Both are same except the stability of the movement. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 14, 2016 11:09:03 GMT -5
Yes. In saying that, you are speaking from the context where eyes see and can have deficiencies with seeing...and where it's acknowledged that glasses are worn to see clearly. & in speaking from that context, It doesn't mean you suddenly lost knowledge/understanding that eyes, defeciencies, and glasses are all appearances. I am looking through the imaginary eyes, It creates the perception as if I possesses slight power. So I wearing a glasses which is an appearance again. If one morning you forget to put your glasses on, and then you remember, do you tell that chain of stories about your glasses? Or is the story, 'Oh, I have to put my glasses on'? |
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Post by andrew on Sept 14, 2016 11:12:11 GMT -5
Yes, I was just trying to point out that speaking from the context where eyes see and glasses help, does not mean a denial of the context where all is an appearance. This is similar to the short convo E and I had about using sunscreen, & that we are both aware that means we've bought in a little bit to the idea that we'll get burned by the sun without it, (even though we both can also see that the sun and the skin and the burn are all appearances....& from that vantage point, sun doesn't actually burn skin) Okay. But andrew fails to understand this logic, That's what cause of Gopal's worry. I understand that logic, I already acknowledged that to Enigma with his David Hawkins example. But when you have a physical experience (taste, touch, smell, thought etc), then your experience abides by certain rules, and these rules come with beliefs. So, when you wake up each day, then you believe a story about your eyes, your glasses and the relationship between the two. My 'worry' is that you do not know how to experience life without an abstract spiritual story governing every action you take. |
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Post by figgles on Sept 14, 2016 11:12:57 GMT -5
Yes, I was just trying to point out that speaking from the context where eyes see and glasses help, does not mean a denial of the context where all is an appearance. This is similar to the short convo E and I had about using sunscreen, & that we are both aware that means we've bought in a little bit to the idea that we'll get burned by the sun without it, (even though we both can also see that the sun and the skin and the burn are all appearances....& from that vantage point, sun doesn't actually burn skin) Okay. But andrew fails to understand this logic, That's what cause of Gopal's worry. Oh no, I think he understands this well. He's just saying that when one uses sunscreen so he doesn't get a burn, or wears glasses, there's an element of belief there in all the physical factors, or one would not feel compelled to actually put it on. if all of us truly lived solely from the place where it is seen/known that the sun doesn't really burn, and glasses are not really necessary for sight/perception, that eyes do not really see, those actions would cease completely. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 14, 2016 11:13:42 GMT -5
are you saying that gopal falls asleep and has nightly dreams? Consciousness creates the entire nightly dream, In the same it creates the entire physical dream. Both are same except the stability of the movement. That's not what I am asking. When you talk to someone about their nightly dream (say Andrew), are you believing that Andrew falls asleep at night and has a nightly dream? If you don't believe that, why are you talking to Andrew about it? |
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Post by andrew on Sept 14, 2016 11:15:36 GMT -5
Okay. But andrew fails to understand this logic, That's what cause of Gopal's worry. Oh no, I think he understands this well. He's just saying that when one uses sunscreen so he doesn't get a burn, or wears glasses, there's an element of belief there in all the physical factors, or one would not feel compelled to actually put it on. if all of us truly lived solely from the place where it is seen/known that the sun doesn't really burn, and glasses are not really necessary for sight/perception, that eyes do not really see, those actions would cease completely. Yes, for the same reason, I eat when I experience hunger. It seems true, and I don't have the energy to argue it, and I enjoy the food. |
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Post by figgles on Sept 14, 2016 11:17:18 GMT -5
Oh no, I think he understands this well. He's just saying that when one uses sunscreen so he doesn't get a burn, or wears glasses, there's an element of belief there in all the physical factors, or one would not feel compelled to actually put it on. if all of us truly lived solely from the place where it is seen/known that the sun doesn't really burn, and glasses are not really necessary for sight/perception, that eyes do not really see, those actions would cease completely. Yes, for the same reason, I eat when I experience hunger. It seems true, and I don't have the energy to argue it, and I enjoy the food. Exactly.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:32:33 GMT -5
can you remind me of what this is about please? Yes, you said it didn't matter if it is an appearance or not, which I agree with incidentally, and I assumed gopal would agree. But he came back and said it does matter. I'm none the wiser. So that presupposes that knowledge of whether it is appearance or not is useful in some way. Well as it happens I asked gopal just that question about six months ago about how this knowledge was useful and he said it wasn't. It was just a subject that interested him. We know that because he talks about it incessantly. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:47:04 GMT -5
I am looking through the imaginary eyes, It creates the perception as if I possesses slight power. So I wearing a glasses which is an appearance again. If one morning you forget to put your glasses on, and then you remember, do you tell that chain of stories about your glasses? Or is the story, 'Oh, I have to put my glasses on'? WOW! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:49:15 GMT -5
Consciousness creates the entire nightly dream, In the same it creates the entire physical dream. Both are same except the stability of the movement. When you talk to someone about their nightly dream (say Andrew), are you believing that Andrew falls asleep at night and has a nightly dream? If you don't believe that, why are you talking to Andrew about it? Oh ok. Then I must have mistaken. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 11:52:41 GMT -5
can you remind me of what this is about please? Yes, you said it didn't matter if it is an appearance or not, which I agree with incidentally, and I assumed gopal would agree. But he came back and said it does matter. I'm none the wiser. So that presupposes that knowledge of whether it is appearance or not is useful in some way. Well as it happens I asked gopal just that question about six months ago about how this knowledge was useful and he said it wasn't. It was just a subject that interested him. We know that because he talks about it incessantly. And we know that you intrude every time here unnecessarily even though you know it's not a useful topic. The problem here is, you are not talking any useful topic here. You are also coming here to enjoy arguing,More than that you would make sure argument keeps goes on by making your agreement and disagreement accordingly. When you know you failed with your understanding or when you know you are at failing end, you would shout like this is not a useful topic. Remember you are not talking any useful topic either. |
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