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Post by preciocho on Aug 27, 2016 1:07:53 GMT -5
Because there is a knowing that precedes knowledge, and it's obviously not an experience.  You know there is knowing by logical inference. But I know how much you hate logic, god forbid an inference. God forbid.
If you require logic and inference then you don't know it. If you know it because it is self evident to you then there is no need of logic and inference. All one can say about transcendent awareness is that it is self evident. It cannot be objectified or described in the same way you cannot describe blue. No one who has practised meditation for any length of time would say they need logic to know awareness. You apparently come here as a teacher and that's whatever. Whatever you're teaching. any logical mind could only learn from you how not to think if you want to be logical.
Saying awareness is self evident is a logical statement. If you can't see that I'd place you at the same level of understanding as a 12 year old at best.
You can't describe awareness because it doesn't appear in awareness. You can describe blue and say it's the same color as the sky or the ocean or the color of someone's eyes. Anyone who has practiced meditation for a long time has no interest in consciousness of dynamics of meditation dynamics because that's the end of the practicer. You embody that beautifully only from some transcendent teacher angle that wouldn't make it 2 minutes into a satsang with me in the seat. With all due respect, you're a tourist.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 1:28:27 GMT -5
If you require logic and inference then you don't know it. If you know it because it is self evident to you then there is no need of logic and inference. All one can say about transcendent awareness is that it is self evident. It cannot be objectified or described in the same way you cannot describe blue. No one who has practised meditation for any length of time would say they need logic to know awareness. You apparently come here as a teacher and that's whatever. Whatever you're teaching. any logical mind could only learn from you how not to think if you want to be logical.
Saying awareness is self evident is a logical statement. If you can't see that I'd place you at the same level of understanding as a 12 year old at best.
You can't describe awareness because it doesn't appear in awareness. You can describe blue and say it's the same color as the sky or the ocean or the color of someone's eyes. Anyone who has practiced meditation for a long time has no interest in consciousness of dynamics of meditation dynamics because that's the end of the practicer. You embody that beautifully only from some transcendent teacher angle that wouldn't make it 2 minutes into a satsang with me in the seat. With all due respect, you're a tourist.
Okay, I'll continue with my vacation now. |
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Post by preciocho on Aug 27, 2016 1:37:32 GMT -5
You apparently come here as a teacher and that's whatever. Whatever you're teaching. any logical mind could only learn from you how not to think if you want to be logical.
Saying awareness is self evident is a logical statement. If you can't see that I'd place you at the same level of understanding as a 12 year old at best.
You can't describe awareness because it doesn't appear in awareness. You can describe blue and say it's the same color as the sky or the ocean or the color of someone's eyes. Anyone who has practiced meditation for a long time has no interest in consciousness of dynamics of meditation dynamics because that's the end of the practicer. You embody that beautifully only from some transcendent teacher angle that wouldn't make it 2 minutes into a satsang with me in the seat. With all due respect, you're a tourist.
Okay, I'll continue with my vacation now. When vacation and real life blur into one thing, you are a bum! Do you like the Beatles? I listened to Daniel for about 6 months read Tolle shortly thereafter woke up from emotions never looked back woo hoo.
Come to the islands, dude.
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Post by runstill on Aug 27, 2016 1:53:12 GMT -5
If you require logic and inference then you don't know it. If you know it because it is self evident to you then there is no need of logic and inference. All one can say about transcendent awareness is that it is self evident. It cannot be objectified or described in the same way you cannot describe blue. No one who has practised meditation for any length of time would say they need logic to know awareness. You apparently come here as a teacher and that's whatever. Whatever you're teaching. any logical mind could only learn from you how not to think if you want to be logical.
Saying awareness is self evident is a logical statement. If you can't see that I'd place you at the same level of understanding as a 12 year old at best.
You can't describe awareness because it doesn't appear in awareness. You can describe blue and say it's the same color as the sky or the ocean or the color of someone's eyes. Anyone who has practiced meditation for a long time has no interest in consciousness of dynamics of meditation dynamics because that's the end of the practicer. You embody that beautifully only from some transcendent teacher angle that wouldn't make it 2 minutes into a satsang with me in the seat. With all due respect, you're a tourist.
Thats a wonderful way to describe the indescribable. I've been trying to find the right way to express this for sometime. A big thanks to you. Would be nice to see more if any. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 2:22:23 GMT -5
Okay, I'll continue with my vacation now. When vacation and real life blur into one thing, you are a bum! Do you like the Beatles? I listened to Daniel for about 6 months read Tolle shortly thereafter woke up from emotions never looked back woo hoo.
Come to the islands, dude.
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Post by quinn on Aug 27, 2016 7:31:33 GMT -5
Some if somebody "delivers" you some bad energy, if you (anybody) can't "retaliate", that is, give back as one is given to, then that's what causes suffering? I don't think so. Ego suffers, yes, but ego is always going to find something to suffer about. While in the midst of suffering, one can find the place/space where there is suffering yet not-suffering. And yes, that "place" burns karma. There is an exquisite joy when whatever life brings, it can't *u** with you. Oh, when you say "don't preform actions" you mean don't retaliate? If so, I'll simply disagree that this burns karma, which likely comes down to how I see karma as opposed to how you see it. I don't see karma as punishment for bad behavior such that sucking it up and taking whatcha got comin will change anything. Is that how you see karma or am I way off base? I see karma as the need to resolve ignorance for one's own peace of mind. This requires clarity, which often comes in the form of challenging experiences. However, it doesn't have to, as clarity is not tied to experience. And actually neither clarity nor ignorance is tied to action. Action is irrelevant in those terms, as action is simply an expression of what one is being, and what one is being is what must change for karma to 'burn'. Hey, what do you guys think about starting a karma thread? I know it's a radical idea  , but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 7:38:32 GMT -5
Oh, when you say "don't preform actions" you mean don't retaliate? If so, I'll simply disagree that this burns karma, which likely comes down to how I see karma as opposed to how you see it. I don't see karma as punishment for bad behavior such that sucking it up and taking whatcha got comin will change anything. Is that how you see karma or am I way off base? I see karma as the need to resolve ignorance for one's own peace of mind. This requires clarity, which often comes in the form of challenging experiences. However, it doesn't have to, as clarity is not tied to experience. And actually neither clarity nor ignorance is tied to action. Action is irrelevant in those terms, as action is simply an expression of what one is being, and what one is being is what must change for karma to 'burn'. Hey, what do you guys think about starting a karma thread? I know it's a radical idea , but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity.then it sounds like you've solved the karma question and any further reading and writing would just be overkill  |
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Post by quinn on Aug 27, 2016 7:42:31 GMT -5
Hey, what do you guys think about starting a karma thread? I know it's a radical idea , but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity.then it sounds like you've solved the karma question and any further reading and writing would just be overkill  |
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Post by enigma on Aug 27, 2016 9:30:34 GMT -5
If employing logic in a false way is avoidable (cancelling the double negative) then it is not logical to say that saying illogical things is unavoidable if the first statement is always true. It's not always true, just when talking about certain spearatual stuff. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 27, 2016 10:08:44 GMT -5
Oh, when you say "don't preform actions" you mean don't retaliate? If so, I'll simply disagree that this burns karma, which likely comes down to how I see karma as opposed to how you see it. I don't see karma as punishment for bad behavior such that sucking it up and taking whatcha got comin will change anything. Is that how you see karma or am I way off base? I see karma as the need to resolve ignorance for one's own peace of mind. This requires clarity, which often comes in the form of challenging experiences. However, it doesn't have to, as clarity is not tied to experience. And actually neither clarity nor ignorance is tied to action. Action is irrelevant in those terms, as action is simply an expression of what one is being, and what one is being is what must change for karma to 'burn'. Hey, what do you guys think about starting a karma thread? I know it's a radical idea , but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity. There's not that much going on here with the fab four gone. Why not continue it here? |
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Post by quinn on Aug 27, 2016 11:03:22 GMT -5
Hey, what do you guys think about starting a karma thread? I know it's a radical idea , but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity. There's not that much going on here with the fab four gone. Why not continue it here? Just some crazy idea about using different threads for different topics. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 27, 2016 11:46:49 GMT -5
You see the snake and discover it is rope. So no such thing as snake ever existed. Ego or the individual I sense doesn't reincarnate. It is impermanent and dies with the body. It is just the vasanas or tendencies that become another ego. I agree that nothing that we refer to as the person or ego reincarnates. . In the case of the bottom sentence, does that mean that NOTHING from the "latter" incarnation has anything to do with the "former" incarnation? (And on down the chain). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 27, 2016 11:51:16 GMT -5
That's true, but if we define ego as a dynamic of self referential thought instead of an entity, then that set of thoughts does exist in a way that the snake does not. I agree that nothing that we refer to as the person or ego reincarnates. That's a good point. What I really mean is that in a state of ignorance it is MY ego. But after realising you are not the body then what arises as I and thoughts is no longer my ego. The possessive I disappears. That is destruction of mind which you had difficulty accepting, but to be fair I probably didn't express it very well. Clearly mind is still required to know how to use a knife and fork. I think that is just living in la-la land wishful thinking. (Additionally) does that mean that all karma is burned up and there is nothing linking to that former ignorant ego-state? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 27, 2016 11:54:37 GMT -5
Your mind is using faulty logic because you are unconscious of the truth. What I am has nothing to do with mind. How do you know that you just haven't fallen into a conceptual trap, that that statement isn't merely an ego-trick? (Just asking). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 27, 2016 11:58:04 GMT -5
What I am has nothing to do with mind. Your mind is what is generating all these posts. That you deny the instrument you use to communicate exists has less to do with personal non existence stuff but your own disconnection with the emotional body. And that's witnessed. Precisely. It is quite an odd situation. (I think it's good for everybody to have to ask these questions). |
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You know there is knowing by logical inference. But I know how much you hate logic, god forbid an inference. God forbid.
, but this is an interesting subject. I'd do it, but then it would be a blank first post and I don't think that would generate much activity.
