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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 15:58:10 GMT -5
That's the name of some old folks game, isn't it? Yes...but you can say bingo only if....... ... it is a bingo-bingo! Else you're just shouting: "I won!" And eveybody thinks, "he's got alzheimer, let him have his little fun."  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 24, 2016 15:58:22 GMT -5
I'm a two birds one stone kind of guy.  I see. Like...you're attempting to nail them with one shot out of one nail-gun, right? At this point, I am not interested. If they have an issue, they can raise it. (I've never been on a forum [that I recall] where everything wasn't time-stamped or posts numbered. That way you can just say: see post number so-n-so, instead of answering same question twice). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 24, 2016 15:59:33 GMT -5
Yes...but you can say bingo only if....... ... it is a bingo-bingo! Else you're just shouting: "I won!" And eveybody thinks, "he's got alzheimer, let him have his little fun." Yes.....exactly.... IOW, don't dump your cards until a winner is verified. |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 16:04:35 GMT -5
1.) "Conscious" of what? 2.) That's not what sat-chit-ananda is all about. 3.) No, there isn't. What ever is happening, happens no matter how conscious you are about what happens. 4.) Tenka would like that one.  #1. To be ~more conscious~ there does not necessarily need to be an "of what". (But there can be). #2. OK, granted, but he made a blanket statement. (I qualified it some). #3. That doesn't make sense. I'm not going to try to sort that out. #4. No comment. Well...then...seems as if I have to: What ever is happening, happens no matter how conscious yo are about what happens, means: It isn't any more elevated if you DO know or not. Karma (actions) play out, no matter what. It can not be avoided because here, in this realm, we all have to do karmic dutys, even the saintly sages, who just picked some karmic dutys out of the pot of the totality, so to speak. The only relieve one can get is: You play along with it, or you don't. Which can also mean you can fight like crazy against or for some stuff. Mind you... |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 16:06:55 GMT -5
I see. Like...you're attempting to nail them with one shot out of one nail-gun, right? At this point, I am not interested. If they have an issue, they can raise it. Yeah, let's have a party elsewhere, compadre. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 24, 2016 16:18:46 GMT -5
#1. To be ~more conscious~ there does not necessarily need to be an "of what". (But there can be). #2. OK, granted, but he made a blanket statement. (I qualified it some). #3. That doesn't make sense. I'm not going to try to sort that out. #4. No comment. Well...then...seems as if I have to: What ever is happening, happens no matter how conscious yo are about what happens, means: It isn't any more elevated if you DO know or not. Karma (actions) play out, no matter what. It can not be avoided because here, in this realm, we all have to do karmic dutys, even the saintly sages, who just picked some karmic dutys out of the pot of the totality, so to speak. The only relieve one can get is: You play along with it, or you don't. Which can also mean you can fight like crazy against or for some stuff. Mind you... You are writing about a somewhat different issue, but you are totally incorrect here (on second thought, it's not unrelated). Why does karma play out? It's precisely because one is unconscious (unconsciously reactivating and perpetuating karma). The way to ~erase~ karma, is to be ~more~ conscious, that is, become conscious of what you are unconsciously perpetuating. That's really the only way to break the chain. One can break/stop karma instantly, via creating ~something else~ which is not subject to ~one's~ past karma. Whatever else could becoming free mean? .........Action in time perpetuates karma. The solution is to step outside time, to no-longer be subject to time (time as we know it). |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 16:25:41 GMT -5
Well...then...seems as if I have to: What ever is happening, happens no matter how conscious yo are about what happens, means: It isn't any more elevated if you DO know or not. Karma (actions) play out, no matter what. It can not be avoided because here, in this realm, we all have to do karmic dutys, even the saintly sages, who just picked some karmic dutys out of the pot of the totality, so to speak. The only relieve one can get is: You play along with it, or you don't. Which can also mean you can fight like crazy against or for some stuff. Mind you... You are writing about a somewhat different issue, but you are totally incorrect here (on second thought, it's not unrelated). Why does karma play out? It's precisely because one is unconscious (unconsciously reactivating and perpetuating karma). The way to ~erase~ karma, is to be ~more~ conscious, that is, become conscious of what you are unconsciously perpetuating. That's really the only way to break the chain. One can break/stop karma instantly, via creating ~something else~ which is not subject to ~one's~ past karma. Whatever else could becoming free mean? .........Action in time perpetuates karma. The solution is to step outside time, to no-longer be subject to time (time as we know it). There is no way "to break the chain" by any kind of action or knowledge or energy-work or whatever, because what needs to be played out will play out. IOW, the concept of "being aware" of karma is being free of karma is not true. Here is how it goes: You can only play along with what you picked as karmic dutys, and if you are a saint, who becomes aware of the fact and then becomes a jnani, you enjoy and relax. But to remove karmic dutys from the karmic-account is not possible. You just play your dieces and that's all you ever get...down here in la-la-land. |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 16:38:03 GMT -5
"If all you can contribute is complaining about gang-stalking, playing out here on this forum, you better go elsewhere, whining about what ever it is you whine about, and I think you should get yourself a mirror and then look into it an then become a mean and strong ?=)$%&ยง" er yourself, else there is very little hope for an interesting party, you being a guest of that party."
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:08:02 GMT -5
"My fridge became a bed-wetter lately and now I have to remove water from its bottom three times a day. I think I need a new one anytime soon."
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:16:25 GMT -5
And no, the Atman (the individual soul of a human being) does NOT incarnate into the womb of a woman, into a baby, other than right before birth. And that's not an excuse for abortion to be made too easy. It's just to tell the "evil" ones that they know nothing about spirituality, "like...totally" not. Edit: How can I possibly know that this is true? Well...IF I would be some kind of god, which I'm ..."like...totally" not, I would organize it that way. That's why. More flawful logic. More "flawful logic" is more better(er)! |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:22:52 GMT -5
Ok , I must've misread. Thanks for clarifying. I come to STF with a guard up. I'm absolutely convinced everyone is positioned as a teacher or a student at the outset, and people generally want the wise teacher position; not the ignorant student one. Then what people say comes across as preaching presented as The Answer, rather than a conversation. It's kinda like that Ruthless Truth place, but without the steroids. When I turn it all about and I adopt the same forms of language that hold this charade together, well, I look stupid right, it sounds kinda inane... looks ridiculous... it's laughable. For some reason it seems to go unnoticed as acceptable as normal until the wrong person starts to do it. If I banged on at Enigma about his insanity and delusions and his over-investments and what have you, persistently rendered Satch into student shoes, called 'Efigma' for a month or two, prattled on about and and giggled at them like a little b1tch pretty much incessantly... not to metion the unknown PM's ad reports to admin all used in the big coercion... and so on... and like, suddenly, BIG SURPRISE, there is an eruption, and someone tells me where to get off. To me though, it is not a surprise, because I know the game as a whole and it goes round and around in a predictable cycle. This is my last mention of the social dynamics at STF, because of two reasons, I;ve already said everything, and secondly, it's now just becoming a part of the cycle itself. Oh yea, I'm done using the strategies ad turning them back, too. They are here to stay and required to persuade people into their places. So that was just a reflecting Zen stick now? No, that was your own ugliness. I do hope you're done with it.Projection at its finest, once again, done by Enigma. |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:25:20 GMT -5
I agree. If we got rid of denigration, derision, belittlement, disparagement, oneupmanship, cuteness, smugness, etc, it would probably eliminate 90% of the posts on the forum. As Farmer suggested, people usually go visit a sage to learn how to find out what they want to know. They also visit a sage in order to find out if s/he is really a sage, to get a sense of his/her depth of understanding, to hear live speech rather than dead words, to report on their experiences and realizations and get feedback, to test the validity of their own ideas about reality, to obtain confirmation or not, to be in the presence of someone who's supposedly knowledgable about existential issues, etc. The same sort of thing is potentially true for a forum like this. Why are people here? I assume that anyone who comes here has had insights, experiences, or realizations that fall outside the realm of conventional life and conventional understanding, and s/he is interested in finding other people who have had similar insights, experiences, or realizations to converse with. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here. Unfortunately, rather than sharing and discussing issues and seeking common ground, the forum is often more like a confrontation of combatants defending particular positions and attacking anyone who disagrees with them. I've attended satsangs and dharma talks by at least a dozen well-known Zen Masters and non-duality figures and more than a dozen lesser-known sages. Why? Because it's entertaining to hear people who've discovered the truth speak about the truth. Some teachers strike me as more creative, more interesting, or more amusing than other teachers, but I rarely doubt the level of their attainment. Adyashanti, for example, seems clear as a bell to me, and interesting, but I don't find him nearly as stimulating or humorous as Tolle or Mooji. During 25 years of being around sages who are clear, I've never heard any of them take a seeker to task unless the seeker was trying to be cute or expressing extreme arrogance. All of them, without exception, have the same basic approach; they offer pointers and explanations, and tell people to look within themselves to find and verify the truth. I don;t remember any of them ever comparing themselves to anyone else or using "I/You" language. In the deepest sense, their words always strike me as impersonal, objective, helpful, and encouraging. IMO we could use a little more of that attitude on the forum. Fortunately, anyone can discover the living truth, and those who find it recognize other people who have found it. The message of all sages to people who have found the truth is, "Wonderful! You understand. Now, go spread this good news." It does happen, of course, but, as with any forum, folks come with various intentions, probably not including gaining wisdom from a sage. In fact, there seems to be a rather violent movement against even the appearance of such a scenario. We certainly can't compare what happens here to what happens in Satsang, and we shouldn't try. For my part, I try to make the best of the situation and address what I see folks bringing to the forum in terms of boundaries, which often isn't even spiritual. I know how everyone disapproves of that approach, and it may well be pointless anyway. Obviously you haven't, Enigma. Why would you come here day by day for YEARS in a row if not for seeking.....(you name it) from others who have it? |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:27:29 GMT -5
Re: the "I think you've grown cynical" comment. Good point about it's aim, not at the content but at the deliverer of the content. Good ole' ad hominem in play yet again. This discussion is about behavior in general, and mine in particular. Assuming you don't see your comments about me as ad hominem attacks, how can my comments about you be? I don't understand what you're saying there.How comes you don't? |
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Post by anja on Aug 24, 2016 17:29:47 GMT -5
You asked me if I thought what you said was denigration and one-upmanship. I said yes. Why are you talking about Lolly? Why are you talking about me? This is about you. Says who? The maha-projector of his own....(you name it)? |
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Post by enigma on Aug 24, 2016 17:32:14 GMT -5
So it's not permitted for one to be more conscious than another here? That would be an uneven playing field, and therefore would compromise whatever game you think is being played here? Or maybe you're saying that it's simply a fact that everybody has the same knowledge, understanding, clarity and pretending otherwise is just another gaming tactic? Of course how we see others 'colors how we relate to them'. Is that also not permitted? Enigma you seem upset. But I don't believe it. For example the "not permitted" cries are unfounded (Quinn has no say in that). What would be a good faith reading of what she is saying? Obviously, I'm asking if it is permissible in her view. Obviously, I'm not suggesting she has censoring authority. You're parsing words to make me wrong and using a double bind to say I'm not conversing in good faith. I'm sure Lolly will be along shortly to explain the dynamics of your power play. What would be a good faith reading of what I said? |
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