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Post by jay17 on Jul 22, 2015 16:27:17 GMT -5
Laughter, imagine if we did not use words, then this discussion forum would not exist and poor Jay17 would not have anything to worry about because everything would be clear......hehe You seem to have no problem gossiping about me, yet you do not address the discrepancy i see. I am not the least bit worried that i interpret you are contradicting yourself. If you believe truth cannot be expressed in words yet you use words to express what you regard as the truth of existence...i see and have no reason to be worried about what you choose to believe. I see a contradiction, i communicated this to you. You have chosen to not clear up what you regard as a misunderstanding on my part, and have opted to take what i regard as the way of immaturity, quite prevalent in some folk here, and make fun of me instead, thereby avoiding the actual issue. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 23, 2015 8:44:51 GMT -5
I hadn't seen it but yes, when it comes to religion it's interesting to take the time to look at the patterns quite abstractly and consequently notice the many striking similarities, rather than focus on the differences as is commonplace and obviously the cause of much trouble and strife. The article raises some interesting points , firstly it mentions gnosis which I'd say is the ideal technique for such an endeavour. No doubt there's a certain strain of 'non-conceptual truth' that can be seen running through the major religious doctrines, and although I struggle to consider in terms of "originality" I am particularly interested in the evolution of the wisdom and the path that takes. In fact, one of the first things that strikes me is the relatively short amount of time between the (alleged) appearances of the three significant avatars, Gotama, Jesus and Mohammed. Actually there are many similarities to be found between the main protagonists of specifically these three religions, both in the message they deliver but also comparatively between their 'life stories' and the path's their lives take (although it's fair to say I'm better versed in the first two). In the case of the message; in each, as well as laying out a path to the end of suffering, or salvation, there is the introduction of a standardised morality and accompanying code of ethics which bare striking resemblance to each other. In fact it's said, that's what prophets do, they bring the message the people need at the time, and each has a set of core truths and call for an initial level of faith. The article also mentions allegory - the traditional method to convey wisdom, and we can see this takes the form of parables in the texts, and again similarities between the parables of each religion can be found both in the structure and the details that seem to go considerably beyond what could be considered mere coincidence. It's also worth noting that as well as demonstrative commonality, this underlying truth - a subtratum if you like, it seems apparent the doctrines also bear the touch of man to varying degrees. What I mean to say is that each religion is based on core teachings but stamped with the culture of the time and place and therefore reflective of that. In terms of production, it's easy to imagine a scenario where the scholarly, and well intended, are subject to the sort of restrictions that arise, firstly, from being 'a collective' consisting of differing levels of insight and technical ability, but in some cases, also being subject to the powerful influence of the self-serving, striving to protect their perceived interest. Fwiw, it's my opinion all this 'shines through' if we can develop the ability to see clearly enough, although perhaps somewhat conversely, this 'development' mostly takes the form of seeing through preconceptions. However, (again something the article touches on), it should be no great surprise that religion diversifies over time if we don't underestimate the minds propensity toward literalism. Classic Movie! Yes quite possibly ... there's definitely something a little bit 'off' about that Virgin Mary though, hehe |
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Post by desertrat on Jul 23, 2015 23:35:49 GMT -5
This is a you tube interview of a doc. saying that Jesus was a mushroom and that the 12 wise guys got high on that that mushroom . There beliefs , not mine . If I find the you tube video I will post it . p.s. Not the interview , but a cute song , kinda explaing things . www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtiMw0-akAM |
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Post by deepakgod on Jul 24, 2015 3:06:03 GMT -5
:Jay 17:
As far as my own own understanding is concerned, there is no contradiction because words indicate truth or points to it but truth has many facets that may not be fully expressed by words.
For example: Love. You can read countless millions of words about love but it can never be the truth about love because love is feelings and emotions and both of them again cannot be defined by words. You can read millions of words another truth but it is not true until you transcend mere words.
Religious scriptures try to explain God, Truth, Love, Joy and beauty but it's all false because truth is what you feel inwardly. Feelings are the language of truth.
Truth is that which you feel and know and words can only try to indicate it.
. Jesus said I am the truth not what I speak is truth.
For me, life is about living totally in the present and not getting confused or worried about anything. As I grow and evolve things become clear on their own time and way.
Life is about how much you enjoy the moment and respond.
For me life is laughter and playfulness that is why I can joke about myself or anyone since we are one humanity. I love to gossip, talk gibberish etc...hehe. It's fun, try it.
Jesus also hinted this when he said that we should be as little children, innocent, pure, present and seeing what is as iit is in this moment. Look at how children are, they hear the words of their parents or teachers but they know if it is true or not because they can feel it and their body energy indicates it.
,
So after all these words, it's time for me to let it go and become silent within.
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Post by jay17 on Jul 26, 2015 5:50:53 GMT -5
:Jay 17: As far as my own own understanding is concerned, there is no contradiction because words indicate truth or points to it but truth has many facets that may not be fully expressed by words.Words don't have truth, because truth cannot be expressed in words only the silence between the words. So which is it, truth cannot be expressed in words, or some truth potentially can? For example: Love. You can read countless millions of words about love but it can never be the truth about love because love is feelings and emotions and both of them again cannot be defined by words. Although i read and acknowledge you perceive you do not contradict yourself when using words, i still see contractions and choose to share my thoughts on them. Perhaps you might clarify...or maybe not...i speculate you wont because of what you said further on. Though you have yet to clarify if words cannot express truth or potentially can express some truth, in your statement, "love is feelings and emotions"...they look to me like definitions of love, you are using words to define attributes of love...yet right after that you say 'feelings and emotions' cannot be defined by words. I simply do not understand your reasoning, deepakgod...you can define love, using words, "love is feelings and emotions", but you can't use words to define the attributes of love. You can read millions of words another truth but it is not true until you transcend mere words. It appears to me you do not value words and language. Please explain how transcending words about something makes the thing true, and how not transcending them makes the same thing a falsity...or potentially a partial falsity? Religious scriptures try to explain God, Truth, Love, Joy and beauty but it's all false because truth is what you feel inwardly. According to your reasoning... Jesus said I am the truth not what I speak is truth. ...Jesus is lying when he said he is the truth. Also, i am well aware he said, "I am the truth." Please to show me where he said the words he speaks is not the truth. Feelings are the language of truth. According to your reasoning\thoughts that you expressed in words, this is either fully false information or partially untrue. Truth is that which you feel and know and words can only try to indicate it. There is a common saying, 'A master craftsman does not blame their tools.' Perhaps your problem is not with words, but your skill at using them. Perhaps you cannot use words adequately to indicate an experience, not because words are inadequate to the task, but you lack the understanding of the experience to adequately indicate\describe\define it. For me, life is about living totally in the present and not getting confused or worried about anything. Well you and i differ then, because i do not mind being confused. It's a sign that i do not know everything, that i am imperfect and make perception mistakes. And let me tell you it's quite invigorating to be worried for that brief moment when the rear end of me ute has gotten away from me and i have to scramble to counter-steer to keep myself on the road. As I grow and evolve things become clear on their own time and way. I genuinely wish you well with that process. Once again, i differ from you, i take a more proactive approach to life and spend a equal amount of time in focused contemplation to develop my soul. Life is about how much you enjoy the moment and respond. For me life is laughter and playfulness that is why I can joke about myself or anyone since we are one humanity. Seems a bit imbalanced to me...and unrealistic. Sure, i see no reason why you could not remain joyful within online conversations, but i doubt you will be thinking about your level of enjoyment in actual offline harsh experiences. I love to gossip, talk gibberish etc...hehe. It's fun, try it. Pass, but there's a few here that are similar to you and you can all get together and gossip and make fun of other members to your heart's content. Jesus also hinted this when he said that we should be as little children, innocent, pure, present and seeing what is as iit is in this moment. I am well aware Jesus said we should be like little children. However, please to show me where he said we should be present and observe what is as it is? Look at how children are, they hear the words of their parents or teachers but they know if it is true or not because they can feel it and their body energy indicates it. Except for kids who believe Santa is real? So after all these words, it's time for me to let it go and become silent within. Same here..but not silent, as i got some other interesting things i choose to do. I'll do my 'still mind' mode later. |
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Post by desertrat on Jul 26, 2015 9:34:29 GMT -5
On Jesus , ever think he said was written down years after his death . So who knows if what they wrote was more of what they wanted to say than what he said . One thing I remember was " you must be born again , enter your moms belly as spirit " sounds like reincarnation to me . The video zeghist has an entirley different idea on Jesus . p.s. www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zeghist+ |
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Post by deepakgod on Jul 27, 2015 8:46:59 GMT -5
:desertrat:
I agree that what Jesus said may be different from what was interpreted by his followers or whoever wrote the words.
What I do is interpret them according to my understanding and this can change over time. Perhaps when I am fully enlightened then I will know it in the deepest way...hehe.
The verse you mentioned does sound like reincarnation or maybe what he meant was to come to a state of consciousness where a child in the womb is one with his surroundings, a state where the child is present and there are no thoughts, just being a spirit and in a state of trust and love without having a mental concept of what these words mean?
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Post by kiwilove on Oct 11, 2015 5:19:09 GMT -5
I will take a guess that most people here probably have not heard of the Talmud Jmmanuel text and it's version of events - of Jesus/Jmmanuel - which is suppose to be the original story as such. Introduction can be found here - www.tjresearch.info/There are youtube video lectures by Deardorff and Rothe and Martin which fill you in also. This version of events gets curiouser and curiouser = raises more questions as you learn about it's details. This really explains the Jesus in India stories for those who have seen references to it in three documentaries such as 'Did Jesus Die?' 'The Hidden Story of Jesus' and 'Jesus in India'. The first 2 don't have any connection with the TJ text yet repeat the same details. Some interesting details are in the TJ text. That Judas is the author/scribe for Jesus/Jmmanuel - is the treasurer for the group. That he did not betray Jesus, as that was another man entirely, also named Judas. That Jesus did not get along with Saul/Paul at all - and Saul did not understand what Jesus taught. That he did not teach about God being creator of the universe, nor praying to that God figure. The India connection is that he fled for his life to India, settling in Kashmir - his mother accompanied him, but being old and frail died on the journey, is buried in India. Jesus lived to an old age and married a local woman, raised a family and is buried in Kashmir. Jesus's teachings are in the TJ text - which is not what Christianity teaches. While I have not followed up on the story of Buddha, I suspect the same problem happened. That his teachings were not faithfully carried on to us - the same with Mohammad's. There is a political motive for those who create a religion - I call it power by proxy, and distortions appear - whether on purpose or accidental (eg. misinterpretation) they differ from what the teacher/master would have liked to be their legacy. They are not present to act as editor/etc to ensure their teachings are passed on accurately. I believe misinterpretations appear in the Bible as later generations try to understand the text the best they can? Ezekiel stands out as being a UFO contactee as such with the detailed descriptions given there. Angels were not spiritual beings (of the spirit variety) but actual physical persons - but looked different, being visitors from a far away galaxy. This makes more sense that what Christians today think are angels, etc. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Feb 9, 2016 17:43:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 18:38:12 GMT -5
i liked this revealingtheabsolute.com/jesus/i personally had a lot of benefit from "dont worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will take care of itself."("be" like the lilies in the field) and my personal take on crucifixion is that he had found a love so great, that bearing that pain was a small thing compared. but i never read the bible complete and dont think i will. in boarding school, before evening meals, the headmaster would read from the bible in thundering voice, and when Moses led the jews through the desert, a bit later you´d find the sand in the spinach. |
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Post by kiwilove on Feb 9, 2016 18:46:04 GMT -5
What is usually not said about Jesus and other prophets - and even Buddha... etc.
That being 'human' they are the same as you and I, and all human beings are the one and the same - human.
You can tell the false bits that have been added onto the basic story - when they get to be regarded as some kind of superhero / poster boy for a religion. They would not have approved of this at all and would claim otherwise.
Every human being goes through the same kind of life experience - of living a life here, and then dying. This simple fact that we see throughout our lifetime is what happens to all human beings. There is no exception to this - any claims otherwise is simply false/misguided/etc.
The same with Buddha escaping the cycle of reincarnation - that simply doesn't happen. We are all the same - even if you are of a different, race, religion, belief system, etc.
Religions saying what happens to you, when you die - is simply false. They have no clue whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 18:59:38 GMT -5
What is usually not said about Jesus and other prophets - and even Buddha... etc. That being 'human' they are the same as you and I, and all human beings are the one and the same - human. You can tell the false bits that have been added onto the basic story - when they get to be regarded as some kind of superhero / poster boy for a religion. They would not have approved of this at all and would claim otherwise. Every human being goes through the same kind of life experience - of living a life here, and then dying. This simple fact that we see throughout our lifetime is what happens to all human beings. There is no exception to this - any claims otherwise is simply false/misguided/etc. The same with Buddha escaping the cycle of reincarnation - that simply doesn't happen. We are all the same - even if you are of a different, race, religion, belief system, etc. Religions saying what happens to you, when you die - is simply false. They have no clue whatsoever. i thought you were a fan of Billy Meier, who if i recall correctly, claims to be a jesus incarnation. i also recall debunking some stuff (ed leedskalnin springs to mind, and Lobsang Rompa) you presented as authentic ,which turned out to be fake. so sayin others have no clue whatsoever, sounds a bit too grand in my ears.You having missed a couple of clues yerself... |
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Post by kiwilove on Feb 11, 2016 19:20:42 GMT -5
Religious authorities have nothing of substance on which they stand - and cannot be compared with scientific and other such like organisations, etc.
Ed Leedskalnin was not debunked, but merely explained as to how his methods/technology/etc worked of which he was secretive about. He still did amazing work with what he did.
I did not recommend Rampa - I was a reader of his material until I realised it simply did not add up, especially when following up on some material he referred to - eg. The Philadelphia Experiment. Though some of his ideas I can agree with - that of so-called ancient astronauts - and an advanced civilisation here, in our ancient past and other advanced civilisations out there, in the Universe.
Some people can be so-called 'fake' but the concepts they present, can still be valid.
eg. Some people may go with the idea that this human race, developed on this Earth all by itself with no outside interference/help at all - because we are taught this.
But I think there are far too anomalies which point away from this concept - but rather that the native humans here - who were primitive, had help from ETs as such that not only altered our genetics, but also provided knowledge and resources to help us advance into civilisations - the so-called 'gods' of all our native cultures - that even legends such as King Arthur has some ET components to it.
The Bible (biblical) stories have many such elements to them.
And Billy Meier correctly points out - who were the early Israelites exactly? And are the stories they promote - really theirs? The Noah's ark story seems to date to even earlier times.
And so, it's really the concepts and ideas that are important, and not so much the teller/messenger.
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Post by hicksetta on Feb 12, 2016 11:39:54 GMT -5
Interestingly, this is what Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj had to say about Jesus Christ after a questioner asked him: "Would Maharaj talk about the grace of the guru?"
He answered: "It is the intensity of the faith you have in the guru's word that is most important; once that is there, the grace flows automatically. The faith in the guru is based on the consciousness within, faith in ones Self. The love for the beingness I am trying to direct to a higher level. What is lasting is this love for the Self, on which temples have been build. This Christ-consciousness is existing; is it faith in a man? As a man Christ was crucified, but that universal consciousness which was his lives today."
(Taken from the book: Prior To Consciousness - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 14:32:48 GMT -5
Religious authorities have nothing of substance on which they stand - and cannot be compared with scientific and other such like organisations, etc. Ed Leedskalnin was not debunked, but merely explained as to how his methods/technology/etc worked of which he was secretive about. He still did amazing work with what he did. I did not recommend Rampa - I was a reader of his material until I realised it simply did not add up, especially when following up on some material he referred to - eg. The Philadelphia Experiment. Though some of his ideas I can agree with - that of so-called ancient astronauts - and an advanced civilisation here, in our ancient past and other advanced civilisations out there, in the Universe. Some people can be so-called 'fake' but the concepts they present, can still be valid. eg. Some people may go with the idea that this human race, developed on this Earth all by itself with no outside interference/help at all - because we are taught this. But I think there are far too anomalies which point away from this concept - but rather that the native humans here - who were primitive, had help from ETs as such that not only altered our genetics, but also provided knowledge and resources to help us advance into civilisations - the so-called 'gods' of all our native cultures - that even legends such as King Arthur has some ET components to it. The Bible (biblical) stories have many such elements to them. And Billy Meier correctly points out - who were the early Israelites exactly? And are the stories they promote - really theirs? The Noah's ark story seems to date to even earlier times. And so, it's really the concepts and ideas that are important, and not so much the teller/messenger. okay, i can follow this, the thing is that these ideas are nice to play with in the mind, but the only thing that will make one a happier and wiser person would seem to be to directly experiencing the Divine in the here and now. All the rest is deviation.I think the meaning of a forum like this is to point towards this fact. I doubt if ´´knowledge´´ which till now is skectchy at best, of aliens and former civilisations really helps to live in the here and now, and a still mind. I have a curious mind and i read a lot about aliens and atlantis and all that.(my avatar is a sign of this) I concluded in the end, that for me it did not work as a help to experience Freedom. So i indulge in it sometimes as a pastime, and try to stick with facts when exploring alternative science and such. and i take care not to get too hung up on this or that theory. I can dive into something and explore, to find it to be not my thing,and i move on.Or i keep some gems. And even bad experiences add to knowledge which may be at some point of help to others. Here on stf i try to share what works for me.Maybe someone will benefit. It also helps me to better formulate what i want to say. |
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