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Post by andrew on Sept 8, 2014 15:59:09 GMT -5
lol that's cool, hope the dog hasn't fallen into an advaita trap hehe. This well worth a watch on similar subject FULL DISCLOSURE: I was lying, telling a stretcher. Reminds me of something Osho said that I read the other day, he said that all the masters were great liars. Not sure whether to practise some lying or whether it will come through grace alone  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 16:36:17 GMT -5
FULL DISCLOSURE: I was lying, telling a stretcher. Reminds me of something Osho said that I read the other day, he said that all the masters were great liars. Not sure whether to practise some lying or whether it will come through grace alone Oh so...it seems like it would be hard to become more accident prone lying. Low potential energy and all.  Maybe the ultimate method would be to silently note to oneself during mediation that one was lying lying lying....even though you were doing something else? THAT'S IT!! Can't wait for the waterfall of bliss joy. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 8, 2014 18:10:00 GMT -5
Separate people are volitionary. I am neither a dog or a cat, I am a person. I am not sat where you are sat, therefore we are separate. I am not inhibited from writing this message, I am free to write it. And that's WIBIGO :: mischievous chuckle:: I saw a real youtube video (which the blue helmets probably forcibly removed) that had a psychic dog whisperer articulate in English what a yellow lab was thinking when it was lying on the rug. "She's saying that she has no volition." Unfortunately the dog whisperer didn't know what that meant and so didn't see the humor in it. And the documentarian didn't go into it at all but it was the most ironic thing but totally AMAZING. Especially in light of these convos here. There was a cat too. But the guy could only speculate on what it was thinking. Just swishing her tail.  |
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 8, 2014 21:23:32 GMT -5
Volition is not the truth/true, it is a word used to refer to the process whereby people are not prevented from choosing their understanding of what is happening.. denial of the process is sometimes used as a tactic for influencing people from choosing their own direct understanding of the process..
'Truth/true', are attachments to what the chooser thinks those values should be...
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Post by silver on Sept 8, 2014 22:15:53 GMT -5
Silence! The U.G. method of enlightenment / awakening.  |
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Post by runstill on Sept 9, 2014 1:07:51 GMT -5
Separate people are volitionary. I am neither a dog or a cat, I am a person. I am not sat where you are sat, therefore we are separate. I am not inhibited from writing this message, I am free to write it. And that's WIBIGO :: mischievous chuckle:: I saw a real youtube video (which the blue helmets probably forcibly removed) that had a psychic dog whisperer articulate in English what a yellow lab was thinking when it was lying on the rug. "She's saying that she has no volition." Unfortunately the dog whisperer didn't know what that meant and so didn't see the humor in it. And the documentarian didn't go into it at all but it was the most ironic thing but totally AMAZING. Especially in light of these convos here. There was a cat too. But the guy could only speculate on what it was thinking. Just swishing her tail. The cats thinking that as soon as this idiot leaves I'm going to 'f ' with the lab and show it some violation .....  |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 9, 2014 2:24:32 GMT -5
Obviously Tzu can clarify himself, however, I only see him invoking the word truth inasmuch that truth = what happens at face value, absent the spinning of stories about that. He does not seem to concern himself with 'truth' beyond the present moment experience. Experiencing the act of choosing, and then concluding that this means one must have volition, is not 'what happens at face value'. It's a conclusion, a story. The inability to distinguish what's actually happening from what one thinks is happening, is the source of much self delusion. This is why we talk about WIBIGO vs the illusion of what we think is going on.Right. The face value dogma (as the still mind dogma) are attempts to sell self-deception as clarity, attachment as freedom and hyperminding as wisdom. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 9, 2014 2:32:08 GMT -5
Experiencing the act of choosing, and then concluding that this means one must have volition, is not 'what happens at face value'. It's a conclusion, a story. The inability to distinguish what's actually happening from what one thinks is happening, is the source of much self delusion. This is why we talk about WIBIGO vs the illusion of what we think is going on. Separate people are volitionary. I am neither a dog or a cat, I am a person. I am not sat where you are sat, therefore we are separate. I am not inhibited from writing this message, I am free to write it. And that's WIBIGO:: mischievous chuckle:: That proves nothing. As we've seen, the ALICE bot could say (and actually did to some extent) exactly the same. And we all know that this is just not true - even if that's what ALICE experiences at face value. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 9, 2014 2:41:14 GMT -5
Volition is not the truth/true, it is a word used to refer to the process whereby people are not prevented from choosing their understanding of what is happening.. denial of the process is sometimes used as a tactic for influencing people from choosing their own direct understanding of the process.. 'Truth/true', are attachments to what the chooser thinks those values should be... Volition is the belief in an actual chooser making deliberate choices. You say 'volition is not truth/true' and then proceed talking about choosers choosing their (direct) understanding of what is happening as if it were an actuality (i.e. truth/true) and not just a story about what is happening. You seem unaware of your belief in volition being true. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 9, 2014 2:48:01 GMT -5
Neither near nor far away
UG: There is no nearness to that, there is no farawayness from that, there is no closeness to that. Nobody is nearer to that because he is different, he is prepared. There's no readiness for that; it just hits you like a ton of bricks.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 9, 2014 2:58:34 GMT -5
Reminds me of something Osho said that I read the other day, he said that all the masters were great liars. Not sure whether to practise some lying or whether it will come through grace alone Oh so...it seems like it would be hard to become more accident prone lying. Low potential energy and all. Maybe the ultimate method would be to silently note to oneself during mediation that one was lying lying lying....even though you were doing something else? THAT'S IT!! Can't wait for the waterfall of bliss joy. Well, here's the bad news: "There is no nearness to that, there is no farawayness from that, there is no closeness to that. Nobody is nearer to that because he is different, he is prepared. There's no readiness for that; it just hits you like a ton of bricks." - U.G. And here's the good news: "My mission, if there is any, should be, from now on, to debunk every statement I have made. If you take seriously and try to use or apply what I have said, you will be in danger." - U.G. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 9, 2014 3:21:27 GMT -5
Separate people are volitionary. I am neither a dog or a cat, I am a person. I am not sat where you are sat, therefore we are separate. I am not inhibited from writing this message, I am free to write it. And that's WIBIGO:: mischievous chuckle:: That proves nothing. As we've seen, the ALICE bot could say (and actually did to some extent) exactly the same. And we all know that this is just not true - even if that's what ALICE experiences at face value. A machine doesn't experience a sense of being free to act. Humans do experience a sense of being free to act, unless that sense of being free to act is compromised in some way. That makes separate people volitionary in nature. I guess it may be theoretically possible to create a robot with this, but then the line would be getting very thin between machine and person. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 9, 2014 4:11:58 GMT -5
I saw a real youtube video (which the blue helmets probably forcibly removed) that had a psychic dog whisperer articulate in English what a yellow lab was thinking when it was lying on the rug. "She's saying that she has no volition." Unfortunately the dog whisperer didn't know what that meant and so didn't see the humor in it. And the documentarian didn't go into it at all but it was the most ironic thing but totally AMAZING. Especially in light of these convos here. There was a cat too. But the guy could only speculate on what it was thinking. Just swishing her tail. The cats thinking that as soon as this idiot leaves I'm going to 'f ' with the lab and show it some violation ..... who new that kats kant spel??  |
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Post by sunshine on Sept 9, 2014 4:26:54 GMT -5
volition or non volition
a non discussion, really
who cares, what difference does it make?
zero
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Post by laughter on Sept 9, 2014 4:28:47 GMT -5
volition or non volition a non discussion, really who cares, what difference does it make? zero seems to keep recurring though ...  |
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