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Post by laughter on Jun 10, 2013 20:19:43 GMT -5
All that I can do is tell you what I have been shown about the world that is possible for us. We are still in the time of choosing. Heaven is not some reward for good little boys and girls after we die. Heaven is a state of consciousness that we can bring on here and now if we are willing to do the personal clearing work to bring on the personal awakening. The Garden of Eden is not a place on this Earth, it is the whole Earth. When our consciousness changes the Earth will reflect that change back at us. War will end, harming other people will end, and abuse will also end. While we are in duality consciousness we are cut off from feeling what other people feel. When we are fully awakened and in non-duality consciousness we are connected to people places and things. Who is going to push a button that kills thousands of people when they have to feel each and every death as if it were their own. Politicians and corporate leaders will not be in positions of power if they have ill intent, because their true intent will be clearly read by all. It doesn't take any work to be what you are. Your second paragraph is pure unadulterated imagination ... I should know, I do alot of that myself.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 20:34:13 GMT -5
All that I can do is tell you what I have been shown about the world that is possible for us. We are still in the time of choosing. Heaven is not some reward for good little boys and girls after we die. Heaven is a state of consciousness that we can bring on here and now if we are willing to do the personal clearing work to bring on the personal awakening. The Garden of Eden is not a place on this Earth, it is the whole Earth. When our consciousness changes the Earth will reflect that change back at us. War will end, harming other people will end, and abuse will also end. While we are in duality consciousness we are cut off from feeling what other people feel. When we are fully awakened and in non-duality consciousness we are connected to people places and things. Who is going to push a button that kills thousands of people when they have to feel each and every death as if it were their own. Politicians and corporate leaders will not be in positions of power if they have ill intent, because their true intent will be clearly read by all. Woo Hooooooo!! Then let's have a beer!
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Post by laughter on Jun 10, 2013 21:25:56 GMT -5
All that I can do is tell you what I have been shown about the world that is possible for us. We are still in the time of choosing. Heaven is not some reward for good little boys and girls after we die. Heaven is a state of consciousness that we can bring on here and now if we are willing to do the personal clearing work to bring on the personal awakening. The Garden of Eden is not a place on this Earth, it is the whole Earth. When our consciousness changes the Earth will reflect that change back at us. War will end, harming other people will end, and abuse will also end. While we are in duality consciousness we are cut off from feeling what other people feel. When we are fully awakened and in non-duality consciousness we are connected to people places and things. Who is going to push a button that kills thousands of people when they have to feel each and every death as if it were their own. Politicians and corporate leaders will not be in positions of power if they have ill intent, because their true intent will be clearly read by all. ... oh and btw ... welcome to our little corner of the interwebs!
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Post by amit on Jun 11, 2013 1:31:44 GMT -5
Hi quinn, Your original question was not about concepts vs realization but about the focus on nonduality. For the latter you will find a previous post about that. Huh? Sure it was. The italics around the word 'concept' are for emphasis. It's exactly what I'm asking. I said the concept of non-duality bumps up against other concepts. To answer your question, the concept of non-duality initially bumped up against my own perceived suffering. In other words, it didn't solve all my problems! Hi quinn, Ok I'll repeat the answer here as best I can as dont know how to find a list of my previous posts. Its a interest following a resonance with the concept of nonduality which, after some years of assimilation, led to the end of the feeling of disconnection and a continuing exploration of the concept. Yes nonduality only ends the search for enlightenment by ending the feeling of disconnection. The effect on the suffering of some physical trauma for example is that there is not the additional suffering of feeling disconnected whilst suffering that trauma. Different characters have different needs from a spiritual search, some want and expect a complete end to suffering (that is not available from nonduality except as mentioned above) others are content with the end of the feeling of disconnection. From a nondual perspective it doesn't matter either way for Oneness is already both. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 11, 2013 1:34:07 GMT -5
Hi steve, Is there something wrong with exploring ideas in your opinion? amit Well, as I said in the post that you quoted, everything will be okay either way...or not. I don't know. :-) I can tell you that I'm not in an "exploring of ideas" phase of my existence....it might be closer to say that in a very limited way I am in a choosing of ideas phase, but that for the most part, I'm in an "I know that I don't know" phase, seemingly moving toward just an "I don't know that I don't know" phase LMAO It all seems to be throwing me back to a kind of grace filled stillness, where the only idea that still remains is God, but I don't find myself exploring that idea, more like just residing in the bliss and gratitude of it....sometimes that's not even there. Use to be that residing in stillness would provide clarity in seeing "what is" as TZU would probably say, now it's not about seeing "what is" with the clarity of stillness....it's not about anything, nothing to see, nothing to do... Whether exploring ideas is right or wrong? I have no idea... I hope that doesn't help to clarify anyone's position :-) Hi steve, Ok thanks. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 11, 2013 1:49:13 GMT -5
Hi laughter, Yes that would be the case if the condition to not do TMT had to be complied with because someone has the idea it would be a better way of living, and not just for themselves. amit Yes, there is nothing shameful about TMT, it's just that it points away from what the seeker is looking for ... of course what the seeker is looking for is found in all directions so all I can do to illustrate what I mean by that is to resort to indirection and metaphor ... for example, "love" is used as a pointer but "hate" is not. Hi laughter, For me there is no way to generalise about what points away or towards what seekers are looking for. It will vary as characters vary. A whole range of ideas are out there for a seeker to resonate with or not. We can become so attached to our own idea that, instead of just putting it out there, we discourage others that contradict it. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 11, 2013 1:54:12 GMT -5
All that I can do is tell you what I have been shown about the world that is possible for us. We are still in the time of choosing. Heaven is not some reward for good little boys and girls after we die. Heaven is a state of consciousness that we can bring on here and now if we are willing to do the personal clearing work to bring on the personal awakening. The Garden of Eden is not a place on this Earth, it is the whole Earth. When our consciousness changes the Earth will reflect that change back at us. War will end, harming other people will end, and abuse will also end. While we are in duality consciousness we are cut off from feeling what other people feel. When we are fully awakened and in non-duality consciousness we are connected to people places and things. Who is going to push a button that kills thousands of people when they have to feel each and every death as if it were their own. Politicians and corporate leaders will not be in positions of power if they have ill intent, because their true intent will be clearly read by all. Hi Ish, Would you describe yourself as a seeker on a spiritual path? amit
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 2:19:30 GMT -5
Hi wren, We run a wilderness campsite in a beautiful wooded river valley with waterfalls and pools to bathe in. We live there under canvass from May to October and that's what I look like after living there for a while playlng a lot of music round campfires. You know what can happen when you start having to much fun:) amit I'm sure Narnia welcomes you all, joyously.
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Post by laughter on Jun 11, 2013 3:54:24 GMT -5
Yes, there is nothing shameful about TMT, it's just that it points away from what the seeker is looking for ... of course what the seeker is looking for is found in all directions so all I can do to illustrate what I mean by that is to resort to indirection and metaphor ... for example, "love" is used as a pointer but "hate" is not. Hi laughter, For me there is no way to generalise about what points away or towards what seekers are looking for. It will vary as characters vary. A whole range of ideas are out there for a seeker to resonate with or not. We can become so attached to our own idea that, instead of just putting it out there, we discourage others that contradict it. amit I understand the sentiment expressed. It seems to me to implicate the ongoing debate on this forum on the nature of truth. On the nature of knowledge. On the nature of certainty. What does the seeker seek, if not themselves? Put another way, what direction that points away from where the seeker is can possibly be the right one?
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Post by topology on Jun 11, 2013 8:51:02 GMT -5
Hi steve, Is there something wrong with exploring ideas in your opinion? amit Well, as I said in the post that you quoted, everything will be okay either way...or not. I don't know. :-) I can tell you that I'm not in an "exploring of ideas" phase of my existence....it might be closer to say that in a very limited way I am in a choosing of ideas phase, but that for the most part, I'm in an "I know that I don't know" phase, seemingly moving toward just an "I don't know that I don't know" phase LMAO It all seems to be throwing me back to a kind of grace filled stillness, where the only idea that still remains is God, but I don't find myself exploring that idea, more like just residing in the bliss and gratitude of it....sometimes that's not even there. Use to be that residing in stillness would provide clarity in seeing "what is" as TZU would probably say, now it's not about seeing "what is" with the clarity of stillness....it's not about anything, nothing to see, nothing to do... Whether exploring ideas is right or wrong? I have no idea... I hope that doesn't help to clarify anyone's position :-) It is clear you are in a hyper speculative phase and are happy to be in a hyper non-committal disposition.
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Post by Ishtahota on Jun 11, 2013 20:15:20 GMT -5
When you feel your kundalini energy come up your spine and over your head, and you feel both halves of you brain come together, you will be in non- duality consciousness. Some also call it reaching enlightenment. Many can experience it, but few can bring it on at will. Am I a searcher, or a seeker not likely.
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Post by topology on Jun 11, 2013 20:30:24 GMT -5
When you feel your kundalini energy come up your spine and over your head, and you feel both halves of you brain come together, you will be in non- duality consciousness. Some also call it reaching enlightenment. Many can experience it, but few can bring it on at will. Am I a searcher, or a seeker not likely. I don't care what you call this state, but why is it dependent on kundalini coming over your head? What changes about your experience when what you have described happens? Why value the state?
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Post by silence on Jun 11, 2013 22:32:46 GMT -5
The justification piece may not be an overt thought process but I'd say resonance is usually a response to something being perceived as being true. I don't think your exploration of nonduality is happening in some separate zone outside of the evolution of forming new beliefs, no. Hi quinn, Yes if that's what resonance means for you. Its nothing like that for me. amit So you're resonating with concepts outside of the realm of them making sense or being somehow true? What other function are these concepts providing that you're "resonating" with?
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Post by silence on Jun 11, 2013 22:34:16 GMT -5
So it's not true and you don't believe in it but you resonate with it? I don't really know what that means. What, you've never had an intuition? I don't really know what you're asking and how it relates to what I said.
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Post by amit on Jun 12, 2013 1:10:49 GMT -5
Hi laughter, For me there is no way to generalise about what points away or towards what seekers are looking for. It will vary as characters vary. A whole range of ideas are out there for a seeker to resonate with or not. We can become so attached to our own idea that, instead of just putting it out there, we discourage others that contradict it. amit I understand the sentiment expressed. It seems to me to implicate the ongoing debate on this forum on the nature of truth. On the nature of knowledge. On the nature of certainty. What does the seeker seek, if not themselves? Put another way, what direction that points away from where the seeker is can possibly be the right one? Hi laughter, Ideas can be put out there without making any assumptions about what may be right or wrong for any particular seeker. That approach will leave open the most options. A reasonable dialogue can then be had without one side or the other insisting their idea is true and the other not. amit
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