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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 1, 2013 23:50:57 GMT -5
When I was a kid I liked to put jigsaw puzzles together. You do the outer edge first because the outer edge pieces are straight, the easiest. And then you just look for pieces that fit, either by matching shape & or color. This just seemed to fit.....your piece........... sdp What? Are you asking me if I discovered what I wrote, or read it elsewhere? Does that matter? As an aside........conceptual non-dualism takes (1) to be equal with (3). This is like taking a math test, and looking at the end of the book to get the right answers without knowing how to do the problems.......... sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 1, 2013 23:56:52 GMT -5
Awareness is a pointer?? My friend, without awareness there are no pointers or practices... We are aware of the concept of awareness and not vice-versa. What? I think he's just saying that awareness is primary, without awareness we can't know anything. Without awareness, you couldn't even read......this.....sent.....en.......c........e... sdp |
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Post by enigma on Jun 2, 2013 0:20:39 GMT -5
Are you asking me if I discovered what I wrote, or read it elsewhere? Does that matter? As an aside........conceptual non-dualism takes (1) to be equal with (3). This is like taking a math test, and looking at the end of the book to get the right answers without knowing how to do the problems.......... sdp Lets try to be clear. In the 'mountain/no mountain/mountain' story, 1 cannot be equal to 3 or it would be a silly and pointless thing to even say, so nobody believes that. Secondly, what Silence is saying is that it's all imagination, and if we have to fit that into our mountain scenario, seems like it could imply a movement from 1 to 2 (mountain to no mountain) but I don't even get 1 to 3. Can you explain, por favor? |
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Post by enigma on Jun 2, 2013 0:25:53 GMT -5
I think he's just saying that awareness is primary, without awareness we can't know anything. Without awareness, you couldn't even read......this.....sent.....en.......c........e... sdp Sure, makes perfect sense. Both of you just used the word 'awareness' as a pointer, so what's the issue?... Or are we perhaps objectifying awareness? (Maybe I'm beginning to understand) |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 2, 2013 6:59:33 GMT -5
I think he's just saying that awareness is primary, without awareness we can't know anything. Without awareness, you couldn't even read......this.....sent.....en.......c........e... sdp Sure, makes perfect sense. Both of you just used the word 'awareness' as a pointer, so what's the issue?... Or are we perhaps objectifying awareness? (Maybe I'm beginning to understand) "It is not that experience exists because there is an individual, but that an individual exists because there is experience. I thus arrived at the idea that experience is more fundamental than individual differences, and in this way I was able to avoid solipsism". Kitaro Nishida, from An Inquiry Into the Good, 1921, English translation 1987 sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 2, 2013 7:10:57 GMT -5
Are you asking me if I discovered what I wrote, or read it elsewhere? Does that matter? As an aside........conceptual non-dualism takes (1) to be equal with (3). This is like taking a math test, and looking at the end of the book to get the right answers without knowing how to do the problems.......... sdp Lets try to be clear. In the 'mountain/no mountain/mountain' story, 1 cannot be equal to 3 or it would be a silly and pointless thing to even say, so nobody believes that. Secondly, what Silence is saying is that it's all imagination, and if we have to fit that into our mountain scenario, seems like it could imply a movement from 1 to 2 (mountain to no mountain) but I don't even get 1 to 3. Can you explain, por favor? I consider it to be the case that silence is just pure and simply....wrong. It's not all just imagination. If that doesn't answer your question (from my perspective) then you need to clarify what you're asking (me). sdp |
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Post by enigma on Jun 2, 2013 11:05:01 GMT -5
Lets try to be clear. In the 'mountain/no mountain/mountain' story, 1 cannot be equal to 3 or it would be a silly and pointless thing to even say, so nobody believes that. Secondly, what Silence is saying is that it's all imagination, and if we have to fit that into our mountain scenario, seems like it could imply a movement from 1 to 2 (mountain to no mountain) but I don't even get 1 to 3. Can you explain, por favor? I consider it to be the case that silence is just pure and simply....wrong. It's not all just imagination. If that doesn't answer your question (from my perspective) then you need to clarify what you're asking (me). sdp Okay, that's something I can understand and discuss. From my perspective, to say that it's all imagination, (which I HAVE said) is to suggest that creation in the largest context is fundamentally imagined into apparent existence. Time/space, as the framework in which experience occurs, is itself conceptual in origin. Imagination is occurring on both individual and 'collective' levels as there is no separation between what seems objective and subjective. Ideas about faeries and unicorns (and who's right and wrong) are not separate from the scientific principles that seem to drive the universe. Likewise, the nature of man is not separate from the nature of life we call 'mother nature'. The reason duality consists of a coin with two sides is that there is no foundation for any of it other than imagination, and so mutually defining polarities are imagined into apparent existence and experienced. There quite literally is no solid place to stand, and no-one to stand there. There isn't even a 'there'. |
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Post by enigma on Jun 2, 2013 11:12:47 GMT -5
Sure, makes perfect sense. Both of you just used the word 'awareness' as a pointer, so what's the issue?... Or are we perhaps objectifying awareness? (Maybe I'm beginning to understand) I thus arrived at the idea that experience is more fundamental than individual differences, and in this way I was able to avoid solipsism". Kitaro Nishida, from An Inquiry Into the Good, 1921, English translation 1987 sdp Again, that's something I understand. (As opposed to the issues about awareness as a pointer) Yes, the individual is imagined into apparent existence as part of experience. Experiencing requires a perspective; a kind of uniquely oriented window on creation, and this perspective is imagined to be a separate, volitional person. |
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Post by silence on Jun 2, 2013 11:15:59 GMT -5
Greetings.. To be clear, I'm not trying to say don't practice anything. Just that "awareness" is a pointer and not a practice. Making it into a practice is what creates unnatural behavior for just about anyone actively practicing it. 'Experience' is the practice of awareness, the quality of the practice is influenced by the clarity of the practitioner.. I'm curious, when you say, "awareness" is a pointer, what is your understanding of what awareness is pointing at? Be well.. The word awareness is pointing to what is already the case. It's not a something to believe in or intensify or cultivate. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 2, 2013 11:16:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. I consider it to be the case that silence is just pure and simply....wrong. It's not all just imagination. If that doesn't answer your question (from my perspective) then you need to clarify what you're asking (me). sdp Okay, that's something I can understand and discuss. From my perspective, to say that it's all imagination, (which I HAVE said) is to suggest that creation in the largest context is fundamentally imagined into apparent existence. Time/space, as the framework in which experience occurs, is itself conceptual in origin. Imagination is occurring on both individual and 'collective' levels as there is no separation between what seems objective and subjective. Ideas about faeries and unicorns (and who's right and wrong) are not separate from the scientific principles that seem to drive the universe. Likewise, the nature of man is not separate from the nature of life we call 'mother nature'. The reason duality consists of a coin with two sides is that there is no foundation for any of it other than imagination, and so mutually defining polarities are imagined into apparent existence and experienced. There quite literally is no solid place to stand, and no-one to stand there. There isn't even a 'there'. Do you believe that because you believe this understanding to be true, that you may not be able to see clearly the understandings that others share? Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Jun 2, 2013 11:16:47 GMT -5
To be clear, I'm not trying to say don't practice anything. Just that "awareness" is a pointer and not a practice. Making it into a practice is what creates unnatural behavior for just about anyone actively practicing it. Awareness is a pointer?? My friend, without awareness there are no pointers or practices... We are aware of the concept of awareness and not vice-versa. Alllllrighty then. |
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Post by silence on Jun 2, 2013 11:17:54 GMT -5
Are you asking me if I discovered what I wrote, or read it elsewhere? Does that matter? Yes, it makes all the difference in the world. What have you discovered outside of text books and quotes? |
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 2, 2013 11:18:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. 'Experience' is the practice of awareness, the quality of the practice is influenced by the clarity of the practitioner.. I'm curious, when you say, "awareness" is a pointer, what is your understanding of what awareness is pointing at? Be well.. The word awareness is pointing to what is already the case. It's not a something to believe in or intensify or cultivate. What is 'already the case'? Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Jun 2, 2013 11:22:11 GMT -5
Lets try to be clear. In the 'mountain/no mountain/mountain' story, 1 cannot be equal to 3 or it would be a silly and pointless thing to even say, so nobody believes that. Secondly, what Silence is saying is that it's all imagination, and if we have to fit that into our mountain scenario, seems like it could imply a movement from 1 to 2 (mountain to no mountain) but I don't even get 1 to 3. Can you explain, por favor? I consider it to be the case that silence is just pure and simply....wrong. It's not all just imagination. If that doesn't answer your question (from my perspective) then you need to clarify what you're asking (me). sdp I wasn't actually trying to tackle the big picture although it can be said it's all imagination. In this case my response was about ego's and false selves winning or losing and such. It's all fantasy land. |
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Post by silence on Jun 2, 2013 11:27:59 GMT -5
Greetings.. The word awareness is pointing to what is already the case. It's not a something to believe in or intensify or cultivate. What is 'already the case'? Be well.. That you are aware. |
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