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Post by enigma on Apr 16, 2013 20:50:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. I 'know' that there is a consistency to what i 'see', to what i 'experience'.. and, i acknowledge those consistencies in accordance with the resonance revealed by not comparing them to beliefs or trying to fit them into preconceived scenarios.. I 'see' what others post, i see the inconsistencies in what they post.. if someone posts that they are interested in open honest direct discussions, but proceeds to avoid every opportunity by creating the illusion of fault in the person that would welcome such a discussion, i am reporting what i 'see'.. if someone says that they are interested in peace, but provokes others, i report the inconsistency i 'see'.. I don't 'know' these things, i observe their happening.. if you say you are interested in peace, but act contrary to that claim, it's not something i 'know', it's something i observe.. i'm not telling others "what they need to do or stop doing", i'm pointing out the observable inconsistency.. I don't 'know' these things, i observe their happening.. and, if i observe a different happening, i am not attached to the prior.. if you 'come empty' to the discussion, i will meet you there.. Be well.. No. Those qualities emerge in recall and contemplation from memory.. Be well.. Be well.. But memory is attachment. Right..? Right..?
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Post by topology on Apr 16, 2013 20:53:23 GMT -5
Well at least I know now that the slap I received across the face was to bring about an ex-pectation.
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Post by laughter on Apr 16, 2013 20:57:24 GMT -5
ha! didn't notice that Bob, pretty cool. btw ... if you really aren't interested in beliefs you have a prime opportunity to walk the walk right now ... are those buttons that Phil sees just there to hold up your shirt or what? LOL.. no.. they are very shiny buttons, they reflect what is projected upon them, but.. one has to be willing to 'see'.. Speaking of walked walks.. any chance for a 'story'? Be well.. Seriously? I'm well within my rights to simply reply with a re-post of top's dog-with-a-bone at this point but if you will clarify as to whether or not your speaking of this promise made here: If you really want me to construct and tell a story of why I'm in this I will but first you'll have to answer this: Where in the conversation since (starting from here) have I asked you your motivation? It's ok if your answer is "nowhere". then I promise to keep a straight face and simply quote and bold the applicable parts from the post that I linked you back to once already previously before like I did that one time back then.
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Post by enigma on Apr 16, 2013 20:58:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. They are the statements of absence to which I referred. I don't know anything about a physical reality, but you apparently do, so I say you are dreaming and imagining. I don't see a chooser, a doer or a perceiver, but you apparently do, so I say it's not so. I'm not the one who believes in stuff, you are. I do not believe you.. your stories of you and Marie are steeped in physical reality.. I report what i observe.. you, create illusions and believe them.. Be well.. You report on Maya. I report on actuality. Whether or not you believe is irrelevant. You have to look from a still mind.
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Post by laughter on Apr 16, 2013 21:04:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. They are the statements of absence to which I referred. I don't know anything about a physical reality, but you apparently do, so I say you are dreaming and imagining. I don't see a chooser, a doer or a perceiver, but you apparently do, so I say it's not so. I'm not the one who believes in stuff, you are. I do not believe you.. your stories of you and Marie are steeped in physical reality.. I report what i observe.. you, create illusions and believe them.. Be well.. What is your basis for that characterization?
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 16, 2013 21:23:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. LOL.. no.. they are very shiny buttons, they reflect what is projected upon them, but.. one has to be willing to 'see'.. Speaking of walked walks.. any chance for a 'story'? Be well.. Seriously? I'm well within my rights to simply reply with a re-post of top's dog-with-a-bone at this point but if you will clarify as to whether or not your speaking of this promise made here: If you really want me to construct and tell a story of why I'm in this I will but first you'll have to answer this: Where in the conversation since (starting from here) have I asked you your motivation? It's ok if your answer is "nowhere". then I promise to keep a straight face and simply quote and bold the applicable parts from the post that I linked you back to once already previously before like I did that one time back then. Nevermind.. do you discern a difference between motive and a 'story about why'?.. or, did you just overlook that portion of the previous discussion.. Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 16, 2013 21:25:58 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I do not believe you.. your stories of you and Marie are steeped in physical reality.. I report what i observe.. you, create illusions and believe them.. Be well.. What is your basis for that characterization? Reality, Mr. Prosecutor.. Reality.. Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 16, 2013 21:27:27 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. No. Those qualities emerge in recall and contemplation from memory.. Be well.. Be well.. But memory is attachment. Right..? Right..? It depends.. it is for some people.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Apr 16, 2013 21:28:15 GMT -5
Well at least I know now that the slap I received across the face was to bring about an ex-pectation. We might be discovering some new etymology here.
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 16, 2013 21:30:01 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I do not believe you.. your stories of you and Marie are steeped in physical reality.. I report what i observe.. you, create illusions and believe them.. Be well.. You report on Maya. I report on actuality. Whether or not you believe is irrelevant. You have to look from a still mind. You have no understanding of a 'still mind'.. you believe it is imagined, absent.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Apr 16, 2013 21:31:03 GMT -5
Greetings.. No. Those qualities emerge in recall and contemplation from memory.. Be well.. Be well.. This is where the rubber meets the road. Memory isn't just involved in thoughts and recall, memory is directly involved in rendering your current experience as it presents itself. Previous experience has shaped neuronal pathways. For a direct phenomenal example, the more you have experience with something, the more detail is rendered in your experience about it. The closer you look, the more detailed your next experience is with the same object. It's not just recall, past experience shapes future experience. What something is, as it appears right now, includes your past experience with it. Pattern recognition is a sub-conscious or prior-to consciousness process. www.scholarpedia.org/article/Attention_and_consciousnessen.wikipedia.org/wiki/AttentionThere are two kinds of attention: 1) Bottom up 2) Top down When the mind become still, Top down processing lessens its control on attention, but bottom up processing takes up more attention. The bottom-up processing has been influenced by past top-down processing. www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~cgc2646/LRN/TOPDOWN.htmDo you get the point I'm making? WHAT you SEE happening is mitigated by past experience. It is the triggering of the model that has been refined and shaped through past experience. A babe seeing for the first time has no concept of what they are seeing. They will crawl off the end of the bed until the mental model for depth perception and the sense of "there is an EDGE there" activates through development. Now you go out into the glades and use your surveying equipment without a first thought, let alone a second thought, but that can only happen due to the effects of memory mitigating how you perceive. WHAT is seen is still heavy on the conditioning. Top-down attention can embed itself in bottom-up processing. This actually puts to work that idea of "use the mind instead of the letting the mind use you" -- and just to be clear, I'm not characterizing my recollection of E's question to Tzu' either way -- just as certain conditioning can remain without letting the past dictate the present or future (like driving a car or using a fork or comprehension of language), if the memories are there but not accessed needlessly from moment-to-moment they don't interfere with the present but are available on demand. Seems to me what "being present" is all about.
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Post by laughter on Apr 16, 2013 21:32:50 GMT -5
Greetings.. What is your basis for that characterization? Reality, Mr. Prosecutor.. Reality.. Be well.. "Reality" is a word. Just an idea, and it doesn't answer the question. There's a potential here for understanding that you're closing yourself off to.
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Post by topology on Apr 16, 2013 21:40:51 GMT -5
This is where the rubber meets the road. Memory isn't just involved in thoughts and recall, memory is directly involved in rendering your current experience as it presents itself. Previous experience has shaped neuronal pathways. For a direct phenomenal example, the more you have experience with something, the more detail is rendered in your experience about it. The closer you look, the more detailed your next experience is with the same object. It's not just recall, past experience shapes future experience. What something is, as it appears right now, includes your past experience with it. Pattern recognition is a sub-conscious or prior-to consciousness process. www.scholarpedia.org/article/Attention_and_consciousnessen.wikipedia.org/wiki/AttentionThere are two kinds of attention: 1) Bottom up 2) Top down When the mind become still, Top down processing lessens its control on attention, but bottom up processing takes up more attention. The bottom-up processing has been influenced by past top-down processing. www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~cgc2646/LRN/TOPDOWN.htmDo you get the point I'm making? WHAT you SEE happening is mitigated by past experience. It is the triggering of the model that has been refined and shaped through past experience. A babe seeing for the first time has no concept of what they are seeing. They will crawl off the end of the bed until the mental model for depth perception and the sense of "there is an EDGE there" activates through development. Now you go out into the glades and use your surveying equipment without a first thought, let alone a second thought, but that can only happen due to the effects of memory mitigating how you perceive. WHAT is seen is still heavy on the conditioning. Top-down attention can embed itself in bottom-up processing. This actually puts to work that idea of "use the mind instead of the letting the mind use you" -- and just to be clear, I'm not characterizing my recollection of E's question to Tzu' either way -- just as certain conditioning can remain without letting the past dictate the present or future (like driving a car or using a fork or comprehension of language), if the memories are there but not accessed needlessly from moment-to-moment they don't interfere with the present but are available on demand. Seems to me what "being present" is all about. Yes, but do you de-worm your garden? You don't know you're worm-free until you be digging around for a while and not just enjoying the apparent stillness above the dirt.
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Post by enigma on Apr 16, 2013 22:33:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. You report on Maya. I report on actuality. Whether or not you believe is irrelevant. You have to look from a still mind. You have no understanding of a 'still mind'.. you believe it is imagined, absent.. Be well.. For you, you mean? Yeah, I guess that's true.
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Post by laughter on Apr 16, 2013 23:13:31 GMT -5
This actually puts to work that idea of "use the mind instead of the letting the mind use you" -- and just to be clear, I'm not characterizing my recollection of E's question to Tzu' either way -- just as certain conditioning can remain without letting the past dictate the present or future (like driving a car or using a fork or comprehension of language), if the memories are there but not accessed needlessly from moment-to-moment they don't interfere with the present but are available on demand. Seems to me what "being present" is all about. Yes, but do you de-worm your garden? You don't know you're worm-free until you be digging around for a while and not just enjoying the apparent stillness above the dirt. Just gotta' check for tracks each morning and that's where a self-deluded, monitoring sham-game comes into play!
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