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Post by andrew on Dec 29, 2012 3:31:42 GMT -5
This of yours is a projection, of course, but if you want to point out the salespeople, you can say the same about 3/4 of all the folks here. Just about everyone is selling something. Looks to me that Temp is the only one here who promises instant results by the mere power of acceptance (of his dogma). That question shouldn't even arise. The mere fact that it arises means that there's something screwy going on. No. Ramana says: One is limited, one is not. When the limited (intermediary) I goes, the unlimited I alone remains. I have not said that acceptance is the key. Questioning our existence is a very important thing to do. Ramana is pointing, that's all. Its a good pointer. |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 29, 2012 4:52:07 GMT -5
Looks to me that Temp is the only one here who promises instant results by the mere power of acceptance (of his dogma). That question shouldn't even arise. The mere fact that it arises means that there's something screwy going on. No. Ramana says: One is limited, one is not. When the limited (intermediary) I goes, the unlimited I alone remains. I have not said that acceptance is the key. Questioning our existence is a very important thing to do. Ramana is pointing, that's all. Its a good pointer. Important to whom? Who is questioning? |
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Post by andrew on Dec 29, 2012 5:04:05 GMT -5
I have not said that acceptance is the key. Questioning our existence is a very important thing to do. Ramana is pointing, that's all. Its a good pointer. Important to whom? Who is questioning? Its important in relative terms, in the sense that Self-Realization is important. My point entirely has been to look at who is questioning. When the gap between the one that knows that they exist and existence itself is closed, there is no more separate one that would know they exist. |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 29, 2012 5:35:10 GMT -5
Important to whom? Who is questioning? Its important in relative terms, in the sense that Self-Realization is important. My point entirely has been to look at who is questioning. When the gap between the one that knows that they exist and existence itself is closed, there is no more separate one that would know they exist. The gap is only there in minding. These questions can only arise in minding. You are still sitting in the village and are imagining how the view would be from Mt. Woowoo. Your concept ciggies are clouding the view. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 5:38:14 GMT -5
Duality isn't what I mean when I refer to illusion. Illusion is in the misinterpretation of dualistic experience. Exactly. That's what I call jumping the gun, hehe. I guess if we can call duality illusion, we never have to notice how we're not seeing it as it is.  You know, sometimes when I'm reading the posts you two chuckleheads serve up it becomes clear you must be trying to achieve some sort of immortality through posting. ;D |
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Post by andrew on Dec 29, 2012 5:42:34 GMT -5
Its important in relative terms, in the sense that Self-Realization is important. My point entirely has been to look at who is questioning. When the gap between the one that knows that they exist and existence itself is closed, there is no more separate one that would know they exist. The gap is only there in minding. These questions can only arise in minding. You are still sitting in the village and are imagining how the view would be from Mt. Woowoo. Your concept ciggies are clouding the view. I agree those questions only arise in minding, and the gap is only there in minding (but again the distinction between truthing and minding is not a true one). To go with your distinction though, what you said is is exactly why, in truthing, there is no sense of knowing that we exist, because there is no gap between knower and known. If we ARE existence itself, who or what would know that we exist? Only when the experience is of being separate from existence is there a sense of knowing that we exist. |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 29, 2012 5:48:17 GMT -5
The gap is only there in minding. These questions can only arise in minding. You are still sitting in the village and are imagining how the view would be from Mt. Woowoo. Your concept ciggies are clouding the view. I agree those questions only arise in minding, and the gap is only there in minding (but again the distinction between truthing and minding is not a true one). To go with your distinction though, what you said is is exactly why, in truthing, there is no sense of knowing that we exist, because there is no gap between knower and known. If we ARE existence itself, who or what would know that we exist? Only when the experience is of being separate from existence is there a sense of knowing that we exist. Then what is your issue with truthin'? It's a pointer, that's all. It's a concept. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 29, 2012 6:00:40 GMT -5
I agree those questions only arise in minding, and the gap is only there in minding (but again the distinction between truthing and minding is not a true one). To go with your distinction though, what you said is is exactly why, in truthing, there is no sense of knowing that we exist, because there is no gap between knower and known. If we ARE existence itself, who or what would know that we exist? Only when the experience is of being separate from existence is there a sense of knowing that we exist. Then what is your issue with truthin'? It's a pointer, that's all. It's a concept. I have no issue with the pointer. |
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Post by zendancer on Dec 29, 2012 8:06:57 GMT -5
How CAN one know that they exist? Doesn't that imply twoness--a knower and a known? Yes Yes, and this is why sages point beyond this kind of knowing. They also point beyond allowing, accepting, releasing, and all other kinds of doing. I think Niz said something somewhere about staying with the I AM only as a temporary means to an end. Sooner of later that is also left behind. A silent mind is like blue sky for ten-thousand miles. Ordinary everyday life is the way. *blinks eyes, hits "post reply" button* |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 8:12:21 GMT -5
Yes, and this is why sages point beyond this kind of knowing. They also point beyond allowing, accepting, releasing, and all other kinds of doing. I think Niz said something somewhere about staying with the I AM only as a temporary means to an end. Sooner of later that is also left behind. A silent mind is like blue sky for ten-thousand miles. Ordinary everyday life is the way. *blinks eyes, hits "post reply" button* Always good to see you, zd.  |
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Post by andrew on Dec 29, 2012 8:57:14 GMT -5
Yes, and this is why sages point beyond this kind of knowing. They also point beyond allowing, accepting, releasing, and all other kinds of doing. I think Niz said something somewhere about staying with the I AM only as a temporary means to an end. Sooner of later that is also left behind. A silent mind is like blue sky for ten-thousand miles. Ordinary everyday life is the way. *blinks eyes, hits "post reply" button* Cool. Yes, that's how I interpret Niz's teachings too. And in this conversation, its why I have insisted on speaking of allowance as a being, not a doing. |
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Post by Beingist on Dec 29, 2012 9:57:43 GMT -5
Yes, and this is why sages point beyond this kind of knowing. They also point beyond allowing, accepting, releasing, and all other kinds of doing. I think Niz said something somewhere about staying with the I AM only as a temporary means to an end. Sooner of later that is also left behind. A silent mind is like blue sky for ten-thousand miles. Ordinary everyday life is the way. *blinks eyes, hits "post reply" button* Cool. Yes, that's how I interpret Niz's teachings too. And in this conversation, its why I have insisted on speaking of allowance as a being, not a doing. My way of putting this would be to say that I know I AM (not that 'I exist') through simply being. |
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Post by Portto on Dec 29, 2012 10:41:44 GMT -5
Cool. Yes, that's how I interpret Niz's teachings too. And in this conversation, its why I have insisted on speaking of allowance as a being, not a doing. My way of putting this would be to say that I know I AM (not that 'I exist') through simply being. It all appears in 'your self' as 'your self.' |
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Post by Beingist on Dec 29, 2012 10:43:23 GMT -5
Forgive me, E., if I lose track of all this quoting stuff, but I'm doing my best, here, under the circumstances (posting quotes while laughing your a$$ off ain't easy). Okay. So is enigma. So is Beingist. I'm guessing you're going somewhere with this. I'm game. That's not the point. Point is that *you* think it's bad. No (though some just might think suffering is good. I don't really know). Again, the point is that *you* think suffering is bad. Can't find my quote that this was in response to, but the delivery caused an involuntary inhalation of my beverage into my sinus cavities. Ain't it, though? ;D WTF? WTF what? |
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Post by Beingist on Dec 29, 2012 10:46:14 GMT -5
My way of putting this would be to say that I know I AM (not that 'I exist') through simply being. It all appears in 'your self' as 'your self.' More like All, in All, as All. |
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