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Post by laughter on Nov 14, 2015 8:36:52 GMT -5
The speculation about the multiple authors and the intended hidden message is just that unless specific names are put to it. Like you say, anyone with that information could start with a name from the publisher -- "follow the money". Absent that it's obviously just wannabe hot-air. Laughter, I've read your post a dozen times and can't understand what exactly you meant. Anyone with that information.... what information? Start with a name from the publisher.. start what? what name? Absent that... what 'that'? Thanks. The "information" alluded to in this post. Without names it's just gossip. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 14, 2015 14:09:25 GMT -5
The speculation about the multiple authors and the intended hidden message is just that unless specific names are put to it. Like you say, anyone with that information could start with a name from the publisher -- "follow the money". Absent that it's obviously just wannabe hot-air. Laughter, I've read your post a dozen times and can't understand what exactly you meant. Anyone with that information.... what information? Start with a name from the publisher.. start what? what name? Absent that... what 'that'? Thanks. Hey tano, by: "Follow the money" I guess you mean hypothetically (not metaphorically)? (Because nobody can actually follow the money, except maybe the publisher, and a good hacker-and/or-detective, but why would they want to?) So you mean the money from wise fool and the money from skype-ing Jed (via being on Invisible Guru forum), goes to the same place? If that's what you mean then that us not really an answer, because, as stated, it can't be done. If that's not what you meant then I don't know what you meant. And, now that I've written that out, that seems to be exactly what laughter said. But laughter can be very clear when he wants to, but for some reason (?) he doesn't want to regularly. IOW, welcome to the club.  |
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Post by figgles on Nov 15, 2015 15:15:23 GMT -5
Hey tano, by: "Follow the money" I guess you mean hypothetically (not metaphorically)? (Because nobody can actually follow the money, except maybe the publisher, and a good hacker-and/or-detective, but why would they want to?) So you mean the money from wise fool and the money from skype-ing Jed (via being on Invisible Guru forum), goes to the same place? If that's what you mean then that us not really an answer, because, as stated, it can't be done. If that's not what you meant then I don't know what you meant. And, now that I've written that out, that seems to be exactly what laughter said. But laughter can be very clear when he wants to, but for some reason (?) he doesn't want to regularly. IOW, welcome to the club. Thank you, Stardustpilgrim I meant hypothetically, yes. No one knows if the money goes to the same place. But like yourself, I see that the Forum and it's money making activites would be shut down, if it were not the same person behind Wisefool Press and the Forum. The man of the books and the Forum man - are the same - a sharp sense of priorities and no pushover attitude. The book Jed would not allow anyone to partake in his earnings. And the Forum Jed does not allow anyone to encrouch on his territory. When I talk to Jed - he is as sharp as a pin, and as flexible as a blade of grass. His mind is that of The darnedest. That - I am sure of. The FLAVOUR of him... the flavour tastes the same. I tend to trust my instincts, and over two years of weekly contact gave me a good sense of the man. Having said that... there was only once he admitted to being the same person. Mystery keeps it going.I continue to have difficulty reconciling the idea of McKenna starting a forum and/or offering one on one dialogue with folks seeking awakening, after reading what he says in the discussion below. He seems to be very clear about the point of having nothing to offer anyone beyond what he's said in his books. I suppose it is possible he's changed his mind though since writing this material; Excerpt from Jed McKennas Notebook, 2009; All Bonus content from the enlightenment trilogy: Q. A lot of people who have read books are eager to meet you in person. We’ve seen some interesting offers of what people would do or give to be with you, even for a short while. Jed: That’s not indicated Q. You sound like a robot at time. Jed: Even to myself, but the fact remains, I was designed to do what I do, write, but I am not designed to fulfill a public role. Q. Designed? Jed: Designed, destined, dharmically-inclined, whatever. I enjoy writing, but I don’t enjoy people…….in any case, I’m a private person and I have nothing to say that isn’t in the books. I’ve made that point in this book, there is simply not that much to say, and I’ve said it all. I can continue to write, expand upon themes, go deeper into some topics but, that’s about it. Anyone who wants to track me down, ask me questions, benefit from what they think I can offer, is operating purely from denial. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise, that seeking out a direct relationship with some woop-de-dee spiritual fella is the mark of deep commitment, but it’s Maya who’s doing the convincing. What would I possibly have to say to someone? We’ve already determined to a reasonable certainty that there are no valid questions left unanswered by the books, so what would I do, cite page number?
If someone comes up to me now seeking whatever, all I could tell them is, “Maya sent you, it’s her hand up your ass, turning your head, moving your lips. You have serious work to do and the only reason you’re here is to avoid it. “ If people don’t want to be serious about this, they don’t have to be, that’s entirely their business. From the outset of this publishing project, I was determined that I would not allow myself to be drawn into people’s avoidance games. Everyone wants to talk about it, but there’s nothing to say. It’s easy to pay some money, give up some comforts, prostrate yourself at someone’s feet, obey, adore, exalt, whatever, and think that that results in something positive, some sort of forward motion but these are all the acts of an ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue with busywork and empty gestures; false acts of surrender allowing us to convince ourselves that we’re striding boldly into the light…… No one needs me for that. Anyone with a genuine desire to face the issue of self already has all I can offer. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 15, 2015 20:48:13 GMT -5
Thank you, Stardustpilgrim I meant hypothetically, yes. No one knows if the money goes to the same place. But like yourself, I see that the Forum and it's money making activites would be shut down, if it were not the same person behind Wisefool Press and the Forum. The man of the books and the Forum man - are the same - a sharp sense of priorities and no pushover attitude. The book Jed would not allow anyone to partake in his earnings. And the Forum Jed does not allow anyone to encrouch on his territory. When I talk to Jed - he is as sharp as a pin, and as flexible as a blade of grass. His mind is that of The darnedest. That - I am sure of. The FLAVOUR of him... the flavour tastes the same. I tend to trust my instincts, and over two years of weekly contact gave me a good sense of the man. Having said that... there was only once he admitted to being the same person. Mystery keeps it going.I continue to have difficulty reconciling the idea of McKenna starting a forum and/or offering one on one dialogue with folks seeking awakening, after reading what he says in the discussion below. He seems to be very clear about the point of having nothing to offer anyone beyond what he's said in his books. I suppose it is possible he's changed his mind though since writing this material; Excerpt from Jed McKennas Notebook, 2009; All Bonus content from the enlightenment trilogy: Q. A lot of people who have read books are eager to meet you in person. We’ve seen some interesting offers of what people would do or give to be with you, even for a short while. Jed: That’s not indicated Q. You sound like a robot at time. Jed: Even to myself, but the fact remains, I was designed to do what I do, write, but I am not designed to fulfill a public role. Q. Designed? Jed: Designed, destined, dharmically-inclined, whatever. I enjoy writing, but I don’t enjoy people…….in any case, I’m a private person and I have nothing to say that isn’t in the books. I’ve made that point in this book, there is simply not that much to say, and I’ve said it all. I can continue to write, expand upon themes, go deeper into some topics but, that’s about it. Anyone who wants to track me down, ask me questions, benefit from what they think I can offer, is operating purely from denial. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise, that seeking out a direct relationship with some woop-de-dee spiritual fella is the mark of deep commitment, but it’s Maya who’s doing the convincing. What would I possibly have to say to someone? We’ve already determined to a reasonable certainty that there are no valid questions left unanswered by the books, so what would I do, cite page number?
If someone comes up to me now seeking whatever, all I could tell them is, “Maya sent you, it’s her hand up your ass, turning your head, moving your lips. You have serious work to do and the only reason you’re here is to avoid it. “ If people don’t want to be serious about this, they don’t have to be, that’s entirely their business. From the outset of this publishing project, I was determined that I would not allow myself to be drawn into people’s avoidance games. Everyone wants to talk about it, but there’s nothing to say. It’s easy to pay some money, give up some comforts, prostrate yourself at someone’s feet, obey, adore, exalt, whatever, and think that that results in something positive, some sort of forward motion but these are all the acts of an ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue with busywork and empty gestures; false acts of surrender allowing us to convince ourselves that we’re striding boldly into the light…… No one needs me for that. Anyone with a genuine desire to face the issue of self already has all I can offer. Hey figgles, I don't think any of that is an argument against the Invisible Guru being Jed. He maintains control, he decides the amount of time spent on the forum, he still has anonymity, there's not groupies surrounding his house, or stalkers. He limits the people he interacts with and on what basis. If he is Jed he could walk away, any day. |
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Post by figgles on Nov 15, 2015 23:19:53 GMT -5
I continue to have difficulty reconciling the idea of McKenna starting a forum and/or offering one on one dialogue with folks seeking awakening, after reading what he says in the discussion below. He seems to be very clear about the point of having nothing to offer anyone beyond what he's said in his books. I suppose it is possible he's changed his mind though since writing this material; Excerpt from Jed McKennas Notebook, 2009; All Bonus content from the enlightenment trilogy: Q. A lot of people who have read books are eager to meet you in person. We’ve seen some interesting offers of what people would do or give to be with you, even for a short while. Jed: That’s not indicated Q. You sound like a robot at time. Jed: Even to myself, but the fact remains, I was designed to do what I do, write, but I am not designed to fulfill a public role. Q. Designed? Jed: Designed, destined, dharmically-inclined, whatever. I enjoy writing, but I don’t enjoy people…….in any case, I’m a private person and I have nothing to say that isn’t in the books. I’ve made that point in this book, there is simply not that much to say, and I’ve said it all. I can continue to write, expand upon themes, go deeper into some topics but, that’s about it. Anyone who wants to track me down, ask me questions, benefit from what they think I can offer, is operating purely from denial. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise, that seeking out a direct relationship with some woop-de-dee spiritual fella is the mark of deep commitment, but it’s Maya who’s doing the convincing. What would I possibly have to say to someone? We’ve already determined to a reasonable certainty that there are no valid questions left unanswered by the books, so what would I do, cite page number?
If someone comes up to me now seeking whatever, all I could tell them is, “Maya sent you, it’s her hand up your ass, turning your head, moving your lips. You have serious work to do and the only reason you’re here is to avoid it. “ If people don’t want to be serious about this, they don’t have to be, that’s entirely their business. From the outset of this publishing project, I was determined that I would not allow myself to be drawn into people’s avoidance games. Everyone wants to talk about it, but there’s nothing to say. It’s easy to pay some money, give up some comforts, prostrate yourself at someone’s feet, obey, adore, exalt, whatever, and think that that results in something positive, some sort of forward motion but these are all the acts of an ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue with busywork and empty gestures; false acts of surrender allowing us to convince ourselves that we’re striding boldly into the light…… No one needs me for that. Anyone with a genuine desire to face the issue of self already has all I can offer. Hey figgles, I don't think any of that is an argument against the Invisible Guru being Jed. He maintains control, he decides the amount of time spent on the forum, he still has anonymity, there's not groupies surrounding his house, or stalkers. He limits the people he interacts with and on what basis. If he is Jed he could walk away, any day. In the above exchange, I didn't hear him speaking about desiring 'anonymity', or control, but rather, simply having nothing more to offer beyond what he's said in the books...seems to be saying that those who believe that interaction with him is going to benefit them in some way, are merely engaging in "acts of ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue."
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 16, 2015 0:26:23 GMT -5
Hey figgles, I don't think any of that is an argument against the Invisible Guru being Jed. He maintains control, he decides the amount of time spent on the forum, he still has anonymity, there's not groupies surrounding his house, or stalkers. He limits the people he interacts with and on what basis. If he is Jed he could walk away, any day. In the above exchange, I didn't hear him speaking about desiring 'anonymity', or control, but rather, simply having nothing more to offer beyond what he's said in the books...seems to be saying that those who believe that interaction with him is going to benefit them in some way, are merely engaging in "acts of ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue."
I would generally agree with that, and if you read a few exchanges Jed has with others, that's mostly what he throws back at people. He specifically speaks to anonymity, He says: I don't enjoy people. Control means he doesn't put himself in a position to have unwanted people around. (Which is what killed Princess Diana, lesson learned). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 5:49:37 GMT -5
Jed does not teach. There is no teaching. People completely misunderstand what he does. Imagine talking to someone who never reflects anything back. Like a personal diary, except that diary makes comments occasionally. The conversation carries on. You get deeper and deeper insights. You get you aha! moments and your anger moments and your reflection moments and your frustration moments and your gratitude moments.. the diary records, points too, but doesn't judge, doesn't react, you are allowed to be exactly as you are, and where you are in your meanderings. Jed has one answer when people say 'thank you for everything'... 'I have done nothing. It was always you. Now, on your way.' It's so simple. It was ALWAYS you. ´´You get deeper and deeper insights´´---´´people evolve, their priorities change´´ earlier in this thread, you say he ´´evolved´´the past 20 years.I didnt realise he wrote the books that long ago. but, ´´evolving´´--that is encouraging.I never bothered to read the follow ups on the trilogy--too much boasting and bragging in the first three books.. so he is no longer ´´done´´ ?right?It was one of my main objections to his writing. (earlier this thread)I cant fathom how you projected´´ third eye´´ being key to enlightenment as something i have said anywhere, ever. But if clairvoyancy in time and space are innate powers of the human psyche, as yogis claimed for thousands of years, why not develop them.Why not develop-explore our full potential? ´´The Synthesis of Yoga´´ deals with the different paths of yoga and the different results each of these paths achieves. google the synthesis of yoga sri aurobindo pdf for a free download. Use the search function ´´tantra´´ , ´´tantric´´ and´´ transcendent´´--that should clarify. ´´Siddhis´´ (´´supernatural powers´´) are usually side-effects of the yoga.Never an aim.The first and foremost aim of these practices is union with the divine. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 5:59:36 GMT -5
Anonymity is of primary importance to him.
He enjoys people as far as I could see. Just not hordes and hordes, as it often the case with teaching and 'guru-dom'. Anonymity is of primary importance to him. yep else he´d end up like Andrew Cohen, another american ´´teacher´´ who wrote books and had hordes of followers who eventually, after many years, turned against him as a fraud.And he even published an apology... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 16, 2015 9:07:53 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1447670977000" class="time" title="Nov 16, 2015 11:49:37 GMT 7">Nov 16, 2015 11:49:37 GMT 7</abbr> sunshine said: ´´You get deeper and deeper insights´´---´´people evolve, their priorities change´´ earlier in this thread, you say he ´´evolved´´the past 20 years.I didnt realise he wrote the books that long ago. but, ´´evolving´´--that is encouraging.I never bothered to read the follow ups on the trilogy--too much boasting and bragging in the first three books.. so he is no longer ´´done´´ ?right?It was one of my main objections to his writing. (earlier this thread)I cant fathom how you projected´´ third eye´´ being key to enlightenment as something i have said anywhere, ever. But if clairvoyancy in time and space are innate powers of the human psyche, as yogis claimed for thousands of years, why not develop them.Why not develop-explore our full potential? ´´The Synthesis of Yoga´´ deals with the different paths of yoga and the different results each of these paths achieves. google the synthesis of yoga sri aurobindo pdf for a free download. Use the search function ´´tantra´´ , ´´tantric´´ and´´ transcendent´´--that should clarify. ´´Siddhis´´ (´´supernatural powers´´) are usually side-effects of the yoga.Never an aim.The first and foremost aim of these practices is union with the divine. 'Done' is misunderstood. There is the final moment of realising Truth, but after that - one carries on being undone, in that Done state. Jed's analogy is that of a spiral, and that's exactly how it is. One flies over the same ground again and again, but higher and higher, seeing more and more, It never stops. It's a return motion within. "The first and foremost aim of these practices is union with the divine." - Truth of Self. The word 'clairvoyance' has been rinsed in the sweat of those who seek a fairytale which this world - is NOT..... corrupted from its simplicity - Clear Vision. Truth. Supernatural powers do not exist. clairvoyance does exist. I've seen it demonstrated many times over the years. To absolutely say it can't exist, is what's imaginary. |
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Post by figgles on Nov 16, 2015 11:30:27 GMT -5
]Hi Figgles, I said a few times... people evolve, their priorities change, you are looking at the books as a snap of someone frozen in time. Yes, that's possible. The notebook stuff I quoted was written in 2009, and the first forum appeared a few years later I think...? If he has simply evolved and seen things anew, quite a significant shift for him to go from insisting he had nothing to offer beyond the books, that anyone that thought so was lost in Maya, and then to go on to create a public forum to converse with seekers and even set up skype appointments with them. But if so, kinda cool. Fwiw, I'm all for evolution and flexibility of the kind such a shift seemingly demonstrates.....It was actually the stubborn, 'stuck seeming' rigid certainty the Jed character seemed to hold to in the early books that to some degree turned me off. Yes, I would tend to agree....no sure if you've been reading along with the I am the world thread here, the idea of 'training' in that sense has been the subject of debate. Yes. Does it really matter though precisely WHO swings that cat? ie; If the forum creator, skype session dude IS NOT actually the author of the books, does it really matter? I'm guessing both Jed and the one behind the forum (if different) would say that's the whole point of an 'invisible Guru'.....it's the message that matters, not the messenger. |
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Post by figgles on Nov 16, 2015 11:33:23 GMT -5
In the above exchange, I didn't hear him speaking about desiring 'anonymity', or control, but rather, simply having nothing more to offer beyond what he's said in the books...seems to be saying that those who believe that interaction with him is going to benefit them in some way, are merely engaging in "acts of ego seeking to divert attention away from the real issue."
I would generally agree with that, and if you read a few exchanges Jed has with others, that's mostly what he throws back at people. He specifically speaks to anonymity, He says: I don't enjoy people. Control means he doesn't put himself in a position to have unwanted people around. (Which is what killed Princess Diana, lesson learned). Yes, It's clear the author has no interest in being a famous celebrity....or public icon in the sense that he is well known or recognizable by the masses. I find the skype thing kinda interesting though...doesn't that usually involve face to face contact? |
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Post by figgles on Nov 16, 2015 12:22:46 GMT -5
"It was actually the stubborn, 'stuck seeming' rigid certainty the Jed character seemed to hold to in the early books"
I never saw it that way, because my egoic mind had already dissloved by the time I got to his bool. I have the same rigid certainty... but not the rigid being. This is what happens, and this is what allows the unfolding, FROM and INTO Infinity. Evolution. If your egoic mind had dissolved completely, what drew you to his books...and then to two years worth of conversations with him? What was left 'to get' after dissolution of egoic mind? & You seem to continue to hold some pretty strong opinions...where do those come from if not egoic mind? The kind of "Rigid certainty" I was referring to, would have prevented the author of the books from setting up a forum...If he remained adhered to his certainty there would have been no movement from this: ..to forum and skype engagement with seekers. Thus, I say, If it's the same dude, he is clearly not stuck in that kind of 'rigid certainty'....If the forum Jed is the same who wrote the books, he's demonstrating a shift in ontology pertaining to what can be done in terms of helping other to awaken. He's moved from saying, "You don't need my input & if you think you do, you're lost in Maya," to "I will make myself available to assist others in their awakening." When it comes to nonduality, that shift in seeing/being/behavior, is no small potatoes. Not so stubborn though as to adhere to 'citing page numbers' when he's asked questions by seekers? [/i]I've looked. It's mostly about ego battles.[/quote] Yup...some of that, sure. But beyond, it is a rather important and relevant conversation & imo, some really good points have been made on both sides. OKay... thought you did as you cited 'training for sports' as an example when trying to make your point previously. So, If that is known and understood, why the need to engage with "a guru"...invisible or otherwise? The Jed from the books would say, 'You don't need me for that and if you think you do, Maya's got you by the throat.' |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 16, 2015 12:24:45 GMT -5
clairvoyance does exist. I've seen it demonstrated many times over the years. To absolutely say it can't exist, is what's imaginary. I haven't, and so do not imagine anything beyond that. "rinsed in the sweat of those who seek a fairy tale", sounded like it meant imaginary. Whatever. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 16, 2015 12:30:03 GMT -5
I would generally agree with that, and if you read a few exchanges Jed has with others, that's mostly what he throws back at people. He specifically speaks to anonymity, He says: I don't enjoy people. Control means he doesn't put himself in a position to have unwanted people around. (Which is what killed Princess Diana, lesson learned). Yes, It's clear the author has no interest in being a famous celebrity....or public icon in the sense that he is well known or recognizable by the masses. I find the skype thing kinda interesting though...doesn't that usually involve face to face contact? Did you ever see the 'Unknown Comedian"? (Years way back). He was actually pretty funny. He always had a brown grocery bag over his head with eye slits cut, and sometimes his bags were "decorated". Jed, probably something like that... Now that I think of it, he, UC, probably invented emoticons...  |
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Post by figgles on Nov 16, 2015 12:40:33 GMT -5
Yes, It's clear the author has no interest in being a famous celebrity....or public icon in the sense that he is well known or recognizable by the masses. I find the skype thing kinda interesting though...doesn't that usually involve face to face contact? Did you ever see the 'Unknown Comedian"? (Years way back). He was actually pretty funny. He always had a brown grocery bag over his head with eye slits cut, and sometimes his bags were "decorated". Jed, probably something like that... Now that I think of it, he, UC, probably invented emoticons... haha...yes I do remember that guy!! Haha....he was pretty funny indeed! (We are showing our age (wisdom & maturity!!) here SDP   ) |
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