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Post by jay17 on Dec 28, 2015 17:53:50 GMT -5
How he managed to go from this... And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. ... to that... When someone tells me they see nothing wrong with war, murder, rape, pedophilia, and other such horrid behavior humans inflict on each other, and state all that is beautiful, i consider a few options... - the person is consciously trolling...saying idiotic things to incite outrage and start a conversation where they can continue trolling and keep the disingenuous convo going, usually for their own enjoyment. - the person actually has a very low level of intellect, which can be coupled with a low level of self awareness, so that they may not have the ability to think things through and realize or be aware of what they have said. - they are so heavily indoctrinated by a religion or philosophy, that the idiotic statements they make actually appears profound to them. Either way, i do not expect to have sensible convos with people who have mindsets as expressed above. What i expect is more of the same; a self righteous elitist response where anything contrary to the beliefs securely held in their mindtanks, or the person who expresses contrary thoughts, is treated dismissively, condescendingly, or flat out verbally attacked...and sometimes they express either a genuine or disingenuous compassion towards the other for not knowing or perceiving existence as enlightened as they perceive themselves to be. ... is beyond me. Well, perhaps it's beyond your comprehension due to the the possibilities i previously mentioned, tano. But thanks for asking, so i'll tell you how i reached that conclusion...by thinking, by using my mind. Something you possibly are not a fan or avid user of considering your numerous expressions of your distain for the Mind. It seems a reasonable assumption that if you do not like Mind, you will not use it's capabilities. But thinking simply goes like this... - you state there is nothing wrong with the world we live in...it is beautiful. - i then think\reason\observe this means everything in the world...as you did specify "nothing"\no thing in the world is wrong, all things in the world are beautiful. - logically this has to include war, murder, rape and pedophilia.. as these are things in the world. - hence my previous thoughts on people who say such things. A forth option of why you say the stuff you do, that just does not align with common sense, is you simply do not think things through. You hear an idea, it gives you the feels and you quickly classify it as truth, not bothering to dig deeper to see the underlying interconnecting implications of the initial idea. Moving on... I asked ZD to remove Jay from the Forum. Every interaction he has - starts OK and gradually degenerates to flaming. Newbees like myself get caught, unaware of this. It doesn't effect me, but I see no benefit to keep this going. Unless, of course.... it provides a contrast here. Maybe, Jay's expression should be put up as a sticky... how NOT to communicate with fellow human beings  Again, this still does not make sense in light of your previous claim of... And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. ..for if there is nothing wrong with the world, and it's all beautiful, and i am a part of the world, then you should not seek to have me removed, you should be enjoying me because i am beautiful and there's nothing wrong with how i express myself. Continuing... Seems obvious to me you have a problem with me, due to wanting to have me removed from the forum, yet earlier you said i have done nothing wrong... There is nothing to forgive, because no one is at fault. ...if i am not at fault, then why desire to have me removed from the forum. There must be something you judge about me as wrong or ugly that you want it removed from your Advaita garden. I prefer Zen gardens myself, far less drama in them. Maybe, Jay's expression should be put up as a sticky... how NOT to communicate with fellow human beings I like this idea. There should be a sticky put up expressing to others that if they do not like indepth thinking, they should avoid interacting with Jay17, 'cus he's a cwazy thinking fool! Not the fool you anti Jay17 folks are most likely thinking of, but the Tarot Fool which is intimately connected to the Tarot Hermit. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 7:29:03 GMT -5
you're wasting your time.. all of you
you can't have a genuine conversation with people who are completely lost in thought
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Post by Theodore on Dec 29, 2015 7:34:37 GMT -5
Sometimes, in my experience as well, it takes taking a rock shower to appreciate avoiding it in the future.
And that's exactly what's happening right now...
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2015 9:11:59 GMT -5
...............bump..................
Jay, of all the people I have ever interacted with online - you are the most repulsive. There is zero ability on your part to RELATE to anything people say and write to you. All you see is all that your mind conjures up. Your mind is truly sick. There is practically no one left on the Forum, whom you can carry on a conversation with. It doesn't matter what their views and perspectives are.... most of them feel disinclined to continue interactions with you for your absence of courtesy and civility. If not one, not two, not three, but most people feel you better be left alone.... perhaps it's a sign to stop blaming all and have a good hard look in the mirror instead. I will not correspond with you anymore.You are beyond hope. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2015 9:15:31 GMT -5
.......................bump.................... Yeah, Peter's our man here, but given that this is the "Spiritual Teachers" section we might even be able to get Shawn's interest. Every interaction he has - starts OK and gradually degenerates to flaming. Newbees like myself get caught, unaware of this. It doesn't effect me, but I see no benefit to keep this going. Unless, of course.... it provides a contrast here. Maybe, Jay's expression should be put up as a sticky... how NOT to communicate with fellow human beings |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2015 9:20:12 GMT -5
Jay, one more time... just because I love you. You say "..for if there is nothing wrong with the world, and it's all beautiful, and i am a part of the world, then you should not seek to have me removed, you should be enjoying me because i am beautiful and there's nothing wrong with how i express myself."
A rock falls on my head from the side of the mountain. I don't perceive it as having a malicious intent, it simply fell on my head unconsciously. I cannot scold it - it will not understand me. I cannot be angry with it - it was not the rock's fault. It fell simply because the laws of physics conspired in such a way at that particular moment in time. But it doesn't mean I should choose to stand by the side of that mountain under the shower of rocks. I have enough common sense to move out of the way and let them fall, but NOT on top of me. I don't have to enjoy what is not enjoyable. You are not ugly or wrong. You are what you are. You are that rock.I love you in the same way I love all that exists in this world. The world may not always be pleasant or agreeable, but it is what it is. I can take action when things go out of hand. I can step away from falling rocks. I can stop a pedophile from abusing a child. I can NOT enroll in the military and not participate in war... So.. Why should you be removed? Well... rocks never want to or need to become anything more than rocks. You are content with your state of being, right? Why are you here in this Forum? You disagree with most things expressed here. You argue with people. It goes against your inner understandings and perceptions... you said there are other Forums you can participate in... why be here? Why are you here? Be honest. Tarot Hermit is about understanding Solitude and LEARNING to transmit whatever understandings were gained - to others. To be locked in an introspection mode without capacity for that transmission to another - is the Hermit's suffering and the limitation to be overcome. I asked you to step back into Solitude for a short while, to make things seen more clearly, for that's where you gain most. Not for me - for you. Can you do that?
Apparently not. |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 30, 2015 3:26:57 GMT -5
you're wasting your time.. all of you you can't have a genuine conversation with people who are completely lost in thought That's kinda similar to..."It might be extremely difficult to have a genuine conversation with people who think only thier perception of existence is correct." For that suggests a form of lostness too. Perhaps extremely difficult, but not impossible. I am a firm believer that humans have the ability to change. Though when a person thinks they are always right, it's seems a valid conclusion they will not see any reason to. |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 30, 2015 3:49:49 GMT -5
The fact that you don't recognize this as prima facia evidence of your trolling explains that trolling as obvious unconscious projections. That's essentially what Jesus meant from the cross dude.  Um, your statement makes no sense to me, i do recognize my accuser's prima facie judgement i am a troll\i troll. I've always noticed it, and i keep expressing they do not have the capacity to see beyond their initial surface assessment...well that's my theory based on they never discuss their accusation with me. They either accuse then cease interacting, or accuse...then repeat the accusation, as if repeating it is some form of conviction process. I'm not one for prima facie when finalizing judgements or making decisions....i have always been like this... "The quality of a book is on the pages, not the cover." - James Miller. You've used Jesus in your argument, i await an appearance of Hitler. That's when people really get serious about trying to prove a point when their reasonings have failed, referencing the opponent to Hilter or something he did. |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 30, 2015 4:01:25 GMT -5
... You are that rock.... I can step away from falling rocks. Apparently not.  Oh snap ! |
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Post by Peter on Dec 30, 2015 8:52:45 GMT -5
Laughter pulled me in to this thread. I've skim read the gist of it, so apologies if my understanding isn't totally on the mark. As far as the Laughter's complaint about Jay's not-very-veiled insulting post goes, I thought that Tano gave as good as she got in reply, so I'll judge that one a draw. How he managed to go from this... "And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. There is no knowing peace without knowing war."... to that... "When someone tells me they see nothing wrong with war, murder, rape, pedophilia, and other such horrid behavior humans inflict on each other, and state all that is beautiful, i consider a few options..."
... is beyond me. Well it's a straw man argument. I thought your point Tano was well made - we need to have seen the darkness in order to appreciate the light. Contrast as you say; I agree. You did not say there's nothing wrong with it, and you didn't say war was beautiful. Jay distorted and polarised what you said so that he'd have something to disagree with. I don't know if he's aware of doing that or not. I suspect not, and it's a common internet game to then say "AH HA! You feel into my trap". For me, this subject gets to the heart of the spiritual life: Is the world perfect as it is, or do we work to try and change it to how we think it "should be" ? Both Jay and SDP get points in my book for reflecting back to Tano that she flip-flopped from one to the other, which I don't think she's seen yet. My view is that Jay - and this is reminding me of our one time contributor Q -is trolling and then making the suggestion that he's performing a service to his victim in reflecting their hypocrisy, ego and myopia back to them. Which he is, true yes, but the method is flawed. When the egos have become engaged during trolling, it's next to impossible to step back from that and see the truth of the matter. I think. So Jay, two things come to mind: - Needing recognition from others, be it spiritual or intellectual, is probably going to cause you to engage in mind games that other people don't enjoy playing.
- Pricking the balloon of another's claims to spiritual attainment is going to cause arguments. It can be done - with great care - but if someone isn't ready to see it, they won't see it. The wise man would walk away at that point, I think.
Our Guidelines for forum behaviour are clear so, Jay, you can either stop the trolling or leave the board. Peter PS Tano, at 857 posts and a Senior Member you cannot be considered a "Poor wee Newbie" (I paraphrase), so that plea doesn't wash. I think you're quite able to look after yourself as far as trolling and insulting are concerned - as your attempts to have a member banned by sending PMs to Moderators show. You're a main player too. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 9:45:35 GMT -5
moderating this crowd can be tough sledding |
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Post by laughter on Dec 30, 2015 22:58:25 GMT -5
Laughter pulled me in to this thread. I've skim read the gist of it, so apologies if my understanding isn't totally on the mark. As far as the Laughter's complaint about Jay's not-very-veiled insulting post goes, I thought that Tano gave as good as she got in reply, so I'll judge that one a draw. Sincere thanks for your time and attention to this matter Pete. |
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Post by Peter on Dec 31, 2015 7:37:40 GMT -5
I would also request you to refrain from using an ambiguous, value laiden language. This kind of language is the reason why people go to war with one another on this Forum, and moderator should posses a good understanding of how this affects interactions here, NOT set an example of it. Did you think I was using ambiguous language? Personally I thought I was being quite clear, but of course people take all sorts of things all sorts of ways. I'm not sure it can be avoided except by writing very short forceful sentences and that's not really my style. I'll consider my ambiguity further, however. I wasn't sure what you mean by "value laiden" language. Does that mean judgemental? P PS When I said "draw" I wasn't thinking of war, more like...spat. I don't often hear wars described as ending in a "draw" with the possible exception of Vietnam. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 31, 2015 8:13:41 GMT -5
I would also request you to refrain from using an ambiguous, value laiden language. This kind of language is the reason why people go to war with one another on this Forum, and moderator should posses a good understanding of how this affects interactions here, NOT set an example of it. Did you think I was using ambiguous language? Personally I thought I was being quite clear, but of course people take all sorts of things all sorts of ways. I'm not sure it can be avoided except by writing very short forceful sentences and that's not really my style. I'll consider my ambiguity further, however. I wasn't sure what you mean by "value laiden" language. Does that mean judgemental? P PS When I said "draw" I wasn't thinking of war, more like...spat. I don't often hear wars described as ending in a "draw" with the possible exception of Vietnam. Some dark humor but quite funny. I'm sure noone involved found it a draw.  |
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Post by laughter on Dec 31, 2015 8:15:32 GMT -5
I would also request you to refrain from using an ambiguous, value laiden language. This kind of language is the reason why people go to war with one another on this Forum, and moderator should posses a good understanding of how this affects interactions here, NOT set an example of it. The thing about an appeal to authority and the exercise of it, is that it necessarily has to involve some expression of value. There's no way to do what Peter is doing here and avoid value-laden language altogether. I called on him to render a judgment. |
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