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Post by quinn on Dec 17, 2015 11:24:31 GMT -5
I will accept that that's the Persian by Mosleh Eddin Sadi,  and not the Greek original  .  Your sensitivities will perhaps 'kill' you one day. Candles exist, and so do you. Sometimes we give people not want they want, but what they need. I don't plan to stay on the Forum much longer. Hope you'll find whatever it is you have found. Tano, do you mind saying why? |
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Post by figgles on Dec 17, 2015 12:35:40 GMT -5
I will accept that that's the Persian by Mosleh Eddin Sadi, and not the Greek original . Your sensitivities will perhaps 'kill' you one day. Candles exist, and so do you. Sometimes we give people not want they want, but what they need.I don't plan to stay on the Forum much longer. Hope you'll find whatever it is you have found. As a parent, I see that that is sometimes necessary, however, also important to see that in thinking we know what another needs, we give them something they have no use for, and/or something that actually hinders far more than it helps. And if you really believe that you are here, offering what folks 'need,' then surely that means you see yourself as offering something of value? Why leave if that's case? |
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Post by laughter on Dec 17, 2015 13:19:20 GMT -5
like--yadayadajedjedyadayadajedJed? its ALL you, include, instead of exlude. But .. like, didn't you just exclude tano and yadajed??  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 4:40:43 GMT -5
like--yadayadajedjedyadayadajedJed? its ALL you, include, instead of exlude. But .. like, didn't you just exclude tano and yadajed?? no |
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Post by quinn on Dec 18, 2015 9:17:21 GMT -5
Tano, do you mind saying why? Quinn, I have nothing of value to offer. Conversations here go round in circles, only a few people are open (I know you are one of those). I don't really care about who is or isn't TR, SR, it means nothing in the context of this Forum. I care about Sincerity, about Realness, about Openness. If folks prefer to play the same games with each other as happen out there in the physical world... who am I to say otherwise? It will keep rolling, on and on. But I don't want to be part of it. You see... physical Reality as is - is the only Reality available to us. We are - it, it (us) is both dual and non dual, the play of oppositions makes one big Circle of Oneness. And here is a good example of the world. But I am not OF the world. Quinn, thank you for being inquisitive without agenda. Oh, but Tano, I do have an agenda.  I also care about Sincerity, about Realness, about Openness, and when someone hops into the swirling bizziness here with those displayed so prominently, it's like oxygen to me. So it's not just idle curiosity. I understand, though. If things change (haha - non-dual joke), I hope you'll pop back in. |
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Post by quinn on Dec 21, 2015 8:17:12 GMT -5
This is appropriate, since many people perceive Jed McKenna as someone inciting conflict. Well, he should, YOU should feel conflicted inside. "The idea that there is a problem to be solved is the fire under the a-ss of humanity" - Jed McKenna "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. They produced Michelangelo, DaVinci and the Renaisance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." - Orson Welles Conflict ensures Evolution. I don't see conflict as going anywhere - it just perpetuates itself. Even within oneself, conflict is an energy that feeds ego (which loves conflict). Challenge, on the other hand, is what makes us uncomfortable in a good way. Challenge has the potential to unsettle the status quo, shake things up so we can look in a different way. Art is often an expression of pain and suffering. I wonder if we would have Masters if suffering didn't exist. (Cuckoo clocks are cool!) |
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Post by quinn on Dec 21, 2015 15:50:00 GMT -5
I don't see conflict as going anywhere - it just perpetuates itself. Even within oneself, conflict is an energy that feeds ego (which loves conflict). Challenge, on the other hand, is what makes us uncomfortable in a good way. Challenge has the potential to unsettle the status quo, shake things up so we can look in a different way. Art is often an expression of pain and suffering. I wonder if we would have Masters if suffering didn't exist. (Cuckoo clocks are cool!) Yes. It also EXPOSES ego. Every conflict starts with a challenge, although not every challenge ends in conflict. However... To desire a complete absence of conflict is simply wishful thinking, and I am a realist. it is NEVER going to happen. Instead, we could afford conflict its due place in the human psyche and stop avoiding it or denying its existence in ourselves and others, as well as between people. This ducking from what is - only leads to passive aggressive resistance. Art.. oh yes. Without internal turmoil and suffering it doesn't exist or turns into plastic. That's true - it exposes ego, if one is of a mind to look. What I've mostly seen when conflict comes around is 'digging in heels' where the source of the conflict (the belief or idea) seems to get even more entrenched. But yes, conflict is a fact of life. Can't really put a lid on it, we can only say, "Take it outside!". |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 21, 2015 17:53:05 GMT -5
Context... The Third Man(1949)"Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly." - Harry Lime played by Orson Welles Seems to me poor old Harry Lime concludes it was only the destructive and hate motivated environment of warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed that produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, the Renaissance and the positive works they created. He then tries to prove his theory is correct by contrasting it against a non violent brotherly loving race with a 500 year history of peace amongst them all, by citing the only material thing they produced was the cuckoo clock. Also seems to me, Harry Lime thinks 500 years of brotherly love and peace for all is worthless when compared to material products of paintings, sculptures and inventions. Perhaps the swiss were like... "Socrates believed that the wise person would instinctively lead a frugal life. He himself would not even wear shoes; yet he constantly fell under the spell of the marketplace and would go there often to look at all the wares on display. When one of his friends asked why, Socrates said, "I love to go there and discover how many things I am perfectly happy without." ------- "A Quaker had this sign put up on a vacant piece of land next to his home: THIS LAND WILL BE GIVEN TO ANYONE WHO IS TRULY SATISFIED. A wealthy farmer who was riding by stopped to read the sign and said to himself, "Since our friend the Quaker is so ready to part with this plot, I might as well claim it before someone else does. I am a rich man and have all I need, so I certainly qualify." With that he went up to the door and explained what he was there for. "And are you truly satisfied?" the Quaker asked. "I am indeed, for I have everything I need." "Friend," said the Quaker, "if you are satisfied, what do you want the land for?" ------- ...deeply content and satisfied in their peaceful loving environment that they simply did not need or desire to produce material things |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 25, 2015 15:28:32 GMT -5
The point was that conflict is here to stay. Seems to me this was your original point... Conflict ensures Evolution. ...and that's what i commented on. And just like the others i mentioned previously, when you perceive you can't win a point, or the other does not agree with you, or perhaps you simply can't handle such experiences, you change the subject matter, or like Envy, you go from one point to another simply to keep the desired\needed argumentative discussion going. Nature is about conflict, the conflict of interests. When a tiger hunts - it is a conflict between it and its pray, a conflict of interests. "Beware the man of one book." - St. Thomas Aquinas Like many who adhere to only one religion\philosophy and believe they have obtained the whole truth about existence, though your statement is correct, in that the phenomena of 'conflict in nature' is observable in reality...it is not the whole truth, it is imbalanced, lacking the other parts of the whole picture...therefore an incorrect view of existence. For nature is also about cooperation. Bee and flower Baboon and Impala Ostrich and Zebra Long-eared Owl and Snake Egyptian Plover and Crocodile Let alone billions of cells all living harmoniously together in the forms of all these creatures. From here..."Cooperation—where individuals work together in order to create a benefit for an entire group—seems at odds with what many people assume are the basic forces of evolution. After all, it’s a jungle out there, only the strongest survive, humans are selfish, etc. But most scientists don’t share that view of evolution. “The role of unbridled violence in evolution is greatly overestimated,” says Danny Grunbaum, an oceanographer at the University of Washington and a pioneer in revealing the ways that ocean life cooperates in order to survive. “When we see animals like elephant seals fighting with each other—as we do in lots of nature documentaries—we’re really seeing only a very small sliver of time. Much more of the time they’re accommodating each other and respecting where the boundaries are—and that’s cooperation. There is a tremendous amount of cooperation in nature.” No one wants to look at the root of each emerging conflict and look for SOLUTIONS, instead of continous engagement in it. For me the solution is one - look within. Know the nature of each conflict inside and out. I see two elements to this... - you contradict yourself, for you say no one wants to look, but then you say you do. 'no one' means 'not one person'...this must include yourself. - then i consider it's not a contradiction, but an elitist expression that is all too common among folk who perceive they are above others due to the knowledge they have that they are convinced is the absolute and total truth about existence. You start off by establishing a world where not one person on earth looks, then state that you look, thereby establishing yourself separate and superior to all others. The elitist mentality has been going on for centuries, found in various social settings, though quite common in religious-spiritual areas. And i see no shortage of elitist mentality in this forum. It's one of the main driving forces for many repetative discussions here. And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. There is no knowing peace without knowing war. I have already expressed my opinion i will not be able to have rational discussions with you due to your mindset. This new statement of yours simply reaffirms my previous conclusion. When someone tells me they see nothing wrong with war, murder, rape, pedophilia, and other such horrid behavior humans inflict on each other, and state all that is beautiful, i consider a few options... - the person is consciously trolling...saying idiotic things to incite outrage and start a conversation where they can continue trolling and keep the disingenuous convo going, usually for their own enjoyment. - the person actually has a very low level of intellect, which can be coupled with a low level of self awareness, so that they may not have the ability to think things through and realize or be aware of what they have said. - they are so heavily indoctrinated by a religion or philosophy, that the idiotic statements they make actually appears profound to them. Either way, i do not expect to have sensible convos with people who have mindsets as expressed above. What i expect is more of the same; a self righteous elitist response where anything contrary to the beliefs securely held in their mindtanks, or the person who expresses contrary thoughts, is treated dismissively, condescendingly, or flat out verbally attacked...and sometimes they express either a genuine or disingenuous compassion towards the other for not knowing or perceiving existence as enlightened as they perceive themselves to be. |
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Post by earnest on Dec 25, 2015 19:57:04 GMT -5
Context... The Third Man(1949)"Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly." - Harry Lime played by Orson Welles Seems to me poor old Harry Lime concludes it was only the destructive and hate motivated environment of warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed that produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, the Renaissance and the positive works they created. He then tries to prove his theory is correct by contrasting it against a non violent brotherly loving race with a 500 year history of peace amongst them all, by citing the only material thing they produced was the cuckoo clock. Also seems to me, Harry Lime thinks 500 years of brotherly love and peace for all is worthless when compared to material products of paintings, sculptures and inventions. Perhaps the swiss were like... "Socrates believed that the wise person would instinctively lead a frugal life. He himself would not even wear shoes; yet he constantly fell under the spell of the marketplace and would go there often to look at all the wares on display. When one of his friends asked why, Socrates said, "I love to go there and discover how many things I am perfectly happy without." ------- "A Quaker had this sign put up on a vacant piece of land next to his home: THIS LAND WILL BE GIVEN TO ANYONE WHO IS TRULY SATISFIED. A wealthy farmer who was riding by stopped to read the sign and said to himself, "Since our friend the Quaker is so ready to part with this plot, I might as well claim it before someone else does. I am a rich man and have all I need, so I certainly qualify." With that he went up to the door and explained what he was there for. "And are you truly satisfied?" the Quaker asked. "I am indeed, for I have everything I need." "Friend," said the Quaker, "if you are satisfied, what do you want the land for?" ------- ------- ...deeply content and satisfied in their peaceful loving environment that they simply did not need or desire to produce material things All good quotes, Jay. But the point was not to deny brotherly love. The point was that conflict is here to stay. Nature is about conflict, the conflict of interests. When a tiger hunts - it is a conflict between it and its pray, a conflict of interests. Humans take it into the mental sphere (here, for instance) and escalate it into combat situations. No one wants to look at the root of each emerging conflict and look for SOLUTIONS, instead of continous engagement in it. For me the solution is one - look within. Know the nature of each conflict inside and out. And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. There is no knowing peace without knowing war. This topic reminds of the Rumi poem below : Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase "each other" doesn't make any sense. mevlana jelaluddin rumi - 13th century I had a glimpse of the world being perfect just as it is a few years back and the taste of that returns when I notice it. I find seeing perfection is seeing that ultimately things are beyond good/bad and just are what they are. Seeing things like this makes me more responsive to the world than I was when I thought things should be a certain way. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 2:40:42 GMT -5
"Certainly!" he spoke~out
"Well, best you get on with it!"
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Post by jay17 on Dec 26, 2015 2:55:50 GMT -5
Jay, of all the people I have ever interacted with online - you are the most repulsive. There is zero ability on your part to RELATE to anything people say and write to you. All you see is all that your mind conjures up. Your mind is truly sick. There is practically no one left on the Forum, whom you can carry on a conversation with. It doesn't matter what their views and perspectives are.... most of them feel disinclined to continue interactions with you for your absence of courtesy and civility. If not one, not two, not three, but most people feel you better be left alone.... perhaps it's a sign to stop blaming all and have a good hard look in the mirror instead. I will not correspond with you anymore. You are beyond hope. So much for this claim then... And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. Tano, like most other folk who only think they've achieved some lofty level of spirituality, you express yourself in an enlightened manner, but when tested in the real world, you come swiftly down to your actual level and utter a torrent of condemnation to the person who pointed it out\tested it, simply because your delusion has been shattered and you're royally ticked off about it, and instead of re-evaluating yourself for your self created rapid decent, you blame and attack me(the other) for it. Those are the types of people who avoid interaction with me and condemn me as they back away with their tails between their legs. Anyone can make grandious claims, it's really easy to do, but not everyone can live up to them. The ones that can't live up to their claims are mostly all talk with little or no substance to back it up. Superficial head knowledge only, only thinking\believing they're all that, with little or no actual inner transformation. |
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Post by jay17 on Dec 26, 2015 4:41:01 GMT -5
I will not correspond with you anymore. Like i said, you say lots of things, but to me you lack the inner substance to live up to it. Here you are once again corresponding with me moments after you said the above. There is no condemnation of 'you', 'you' are OK and just as beautiful as anything in this world. 'You' are part of it. Again, you say many things but to me the evidence clearly shows your talk contains falsity. Here you are repeatedly condemning me, not my mind. Jay, of all the people I have ever interacted with online - you are the most repulsive. There is zero ability on your part to RELATE to anything people say and write to you. All you see is all that your mind conjures up. Your mind is truly sick. There is practically no one left on the Forum, whom you can carry on a conversation with. It doesn't matter what their views and perspectives are.... most of them feel disinclined to continue interactions with you for your absence of courtesy and civility. If not one, not two, not three, but most people feel you better be left alone.... perhaps it's a sign to stop blaming all and have a good hard look in the mirror instead. I will not correspond with you anymore. You are beyond hope. I condemn your mind. It is a wall between 'you' and everything you perceive, it is making you sick. If you were actually condemning my mind, you would have simply expressed it everytime you were condemning me. But you did not , you simply repeated "you", not, "your mind". I already stated to you before that i find it irrational and pointless for you to project your hangups about the Mind onto or at me. Your ill feelings and thoughts about the Mind part of the human being is not my concern, nor am i troubled by how disturbed and repulsed you are by that aspect of the human being. Feel free to rage against Mind as you desire or need to, it's of no concern to me as i find your negative comments about my mind inconsequential to my life journey. Your issues with Mind are yours to do with as you see fit. Just don't expect me to be troubled by your beliefs about it, m'kay. It is called 'discernment'. I discern that at this point in time any interaction with you will always lead to a dead end. And at a previous point in time you said you will no longer correspond with me. Like i said, you say a lot , but do not live up to your word. You claim to have discernment and use that to judge it's not worth talking to me, yet you keep talking to me. You may have the ability to express the term 'discernment', but it seems evident to me you either lack the understanding of it or the ability to act on it's conclusions\what it's telling you. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 26, 2015 5:32:17 GMT -5
Jay, of all the people I have ever interacted with online - you are the most repulsive. There is zero ability on your part to RELATE to anything people say and write to you. All you see is all that your mind conjures up. Your mind is truly sick. There is practically no one left on the Forum, whom you can carry on a conversation with. It doesn't matter what their views and perspectives are.... most of them feel disinclined to continue interactions with you for your absence of courtesy and civility. If not one, not two, not three, but most people feel you better be left alone.... perhaps it's a sign to stop blaming all and have a good hard look in the mirror instead. I will not correspond with you anymore. You are beyond hope. So much for this claim then... And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. Tano, like most other folk who only think they've achieved some lofty level of spirituality, you express yourself in an enlightened manner, but when tested in the real world, you come swiftly down to your actual level and utter a torrent of condemnation to the person who pointed it out\tested it, simply because your delusion has been shattered and you're royally ticked off about it, and instead of re-evaluating yourself for your self created rapid decent, you blame and attack me(the other) for it. Those are the types of people who avoid interaction with me and condemn me as they back away with their tails between their legs. Anyone can make grandious claims, it's really easy to do, but not everyone can live up to them. The ones that can't live up to their claims are mostly all talk with little or no substance to back it up. Superficial head knowledge only, only thinking\believing they're all that, with little or no actual inner transformation. If you hurl enough insults at someone, and they react to you, all it really means is that they've decided not to tolerate your insults. You draw fantastic conclusions that have little to do with what's actually been written on the dialog, and it's based on images you're projecting onto people that have nothing to do with any other fact than they've decided not to tolerate the insults. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 26, 2015 5:41:38 GMT -5
The point was that conflict is here to stay. Seems to me this was your original point... Conflict ensures Evolution. ...and that's what i commented on. And just like the others i mentioned previously, when you perceive you can't win a point, or the other does not agree with you, or perhaps you simply can't handle such experiences, you change the subject matter, or like Envy, you go from one point to another simply to keep the desired\needed argumentative discussion going. Nature is about conflict, the conflict of interests. When a tiger hunts - it is a conflict between it and its pray, a conflict of interests. "Beware the man of one book." - St. Thomas Aquinas Like many who adhere to only one religion\philosophy and believe they have obtained the whole truth about existence, though your statement is correct, in that the phenomena of 'conflict in nature' is observable in reality...it is not the whole truth, it is imbalanced, lacking the other parts of the whole picture...therefore an incorrect view of existence. For nature is also about cooperation. Bee and flower Baboon and Impala Ostrich and Zebra Long-eared Owl and Snake Egyptian Plover and Crocodile Let alone billions of cells all living harmoniously together in the forms of all these creatures. From here..."Cooperation—where individuals work together in order to create a benefit for an entire group—seems at odds with what many people assume are the basic forces of evolution. After all, it’s a jungle out there, only the strongest survive, humans are selfish, etc. But most scientists don’t share that view of evolution. “The role of unbridled violence in evolution is greatly overestimated,” says Danny Grunbaum, an oceanographer at the University of Washington and a pioneer in revealing the ways that ocean life cooperates in order to survive. “When we see animals like elephant seals fighting with each other—as we do in lots of nature documentaries—we’re really seeing only a very small sliver of time. Much more of the time they’re accommodating each other and respecting where the boundaries are—and that’s cooperation. There is a tremendous amount of cooperation in nature.” No one wants to look at the root of each emerging conflict and look for SOLUTIONS, instead of continous engagement in it. For me the solution is one - look within. Know the nature of each conflict inside and out. I see two elements to this... - you contradict yourself, for you say no one wants to look, but then you say you do. 'no one' means 'not one person'...this must include yourself. - then i consider it's not a contradiction, but an elitist expression that is all too common among folk who perceive they are above others due to the knowledge they have that they are convinced is the absolute and total truth about existence. You start off by establishing a world where not one person on earth looks, then state that you look, thereby establishing yourself separate and superior to all others. The elitist mentality has been going on for centuries, found in various social settings, though quite common in religious-spiritual areas. And i see no shortage of elitist mentality in this forum. It's one of the main driving forces for many repetative discussions here. And another point... there is nothing wrong with the world we live in. It is beautiful and full of contrasts. There is no knowing peace without knowing war. I have already expressed my opinion i will not be able to have rational discussions with you due to your mindset. This new statement of yours simply reaffirms my previous conclusion. When someone tells me they see nothing wrong with war, murder, rape, pedophilia, and other such horrid behavior humans inflict on each other, and state all that is beautiful, i consider a few options... - the person is consciously trolling...saying idiotic things to incite outrage and start a conversation where they can continue trolling and keep the disingenuous convo going, usually for their own enjoyment. - the person actually has a very low level of intellect, which can be coupled with a low level of self awareness, so that they may not have the ability to think things through and realize or be aware of what they have said. - they are so heavily indoctrinated by a religion or philosophy, that the idiotic statements they make actually appears profound to them. Either way, i do not expect to have sensible convos with people who have mindsets as expressed above. What i expect is more of the same; a self righteous elitist response where anything contrary to the beliefs securely held in their mindtanks, or the person who expresses contrary thoughts, is treated dismissively, condescendingly, or flat out verbally attacked...and sometimes they express either a genuine or disingenuous compassion towards the other for not knowing or perceiving existence as enlightened as they perceive themselves to be. Please either delete this post or I'm going to report it. You've essentially called tano an idiotic elitist troll with a low level of intellect who says idiot things to incite outrage and/or is so heavily indoctrinated by religion or philosophy that her idiotic statements appear profound to her. You've hidden it behind "when someone tells me they see nothing wrong with war then this person", but it's obviously a sham. If you delete your post, I'll delete this one, but not only does this not belong outside the Unmoderated section of the site, it's bordering on the type of abuse and hate speech that is prohibited by proboards. |
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and not the Greek original 
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I also care about Sincerity, about Realness, about Openness, and when someone hops into the swirling bizziness here with those displayed so prominently, it's like oxygen to me. So it's not just idle curiosity.
