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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 4:33:18 GMT -5
SDP do you consider experiencing excruciating body pain from throat cancer as "not effected whatsoever" by the currents of life? Yes. Physical pain is as real as it gets, and anyone who says otherwise is full of bs. He suffered from it like any other. It amazes me to see that people assign some otherworldly qualities, lifestyle, abilities to those who have torn off the veil. They did what all of us are doing: ate, slept, worked, f*^ked, admired nature, read books, interacted with others, loved, felt responsibility, wore silly or elegant closing, thought many thoughts, felt many feelings, travelled, sh*^tted... went about the usual business of living, being Life. Then they died. Like all of us will, and we have never heard from them since. After TR, especially when some reasonable time passed - TR people seem to become whimsical and playful. Nothing to fear and nothing to worry about, because it is past the 'I', the 'me', the 'us', even the 'we'. y es. Physical pain is as real as it gets, and anyone who says otherwise is full of bs.
A BOLD and sweeping statement that is, no doubt from someone who has traversed all the heights and depths of him\her self and uncovered the mysteries of life,mind,body consciousness etc.etc.We lay in prostrate devotion at your smelly (´´bs´´...) feet. all physical sensation is prone to conditioning.But, as Sri Aurobindo mentions, they re just temporary agreements of the senses.They are not final and not binding. I once had a nagging toothache, and remembered this.INSTANLY the pain reversed into a pleasant sensation--this doesnt happen always, i was just shown by my inner guide that this is actully true. Another time i sat on the floor in room full of dopesmoking hippies,very crowded,a couple of dogs,someone playing guitar.At some point a dog pukes his dinner on the floor,one meter away from me...some EEEK!!´s from peeps next to me alerted me to it......As the scent of the puke reached my nose, i was amazed to smell the most delicious thing that has ever reached my nostrils, propelling me into ecstasy...No i was not on drugs nor alcohol. it is all conditioning,and as such, all manipulatable. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 15, 2015 10:41:34 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1450128787000" class="time" title="Dec 15, 2015 4:33:07 GMT 7">Dec 15, 2015 4:33:07 GMT 7</abbr> stardustpilgrim said: Growing up, from as early as I can remember.....well, not true, say from beginning of school, first grade on, I was the most shy, inhibited and insecure person who ever lived. (Of course that's a slight exaggeration, but only slight). If there was structure, I could do that, work, study, interact with teachers, I could do that. I was perfectly happy and secure while alone, but if I had to interact with anyone, my head would be empty and I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to carry on a conversation. I could play ball, play games, I could do things around a central activity, but if there was no central activity, I didn't know how to interact with people. I was fine alone, most comfortable alone, I was myself, alone. This was not too hard being young, but the older I got the more difficult it became. So I spent most of my free time alone. But as I got older I wanted to have friends, but didn't know how. I felt invisible, and was even surprised sometimes when someone said something to me in school. More times than not this was, You sure are quiet. I felt trapped inside myself. In High School (late '60's) I began learning a little something about psychology, and as a Sr. began studying the metaphysical stuff. This, in the beginning, was mainly from a standpoint of why I am the way I am. It didn't really help to know there might be a reason for why I am the way I am. The Vietnam War was going on when I finished HS, so college was my only option. It continued giving me structure, plus it kept me out of the war, college deferment. But then I also had to think of, what about after college, what am I going to do with my life. Most everything I considered, nope, can't do that, you have to interact with people to do that. After two years of college there was the first draft lottery, my number was 360 (out of 366, I was born in a leap year). So, no chance of getting drafted, so I no longer had to have my college deferment. So I started dropping classes, mostly all my time was spent studying esoteric-metaphysical-type stuff. I finished only 17 more hours in the next year and a half. And things got nasty, I started getting depressed. And then ya-da, ya-da, ya-da, I've already told you some of the rest. But basically, from 1976 onward, I have had little interest in life, outer life. My conditioning plays out. I have certain needs. I managed to get married along the way, have four kids (marriage lasted 15 years). I stumbled into a job I didn't really like, 1980, but turned out to be ideal for me. Most of the time I dealt with houses and tools, and to some extent my own boss and to a little more extent my building contractor. When I started running a crew, I usually trained my own helpers. I usually got stuck with the worst guy hired. I had a few very good helpers over the years, but these usually moved on after about two years. But even this was just work, just a work relationship. For over twenty years I worked mostly for the same contractor, he liked me and I like working for him. I did that for 33 years, and two years ago I retired from being an electrician. I have lived of SS for two years and a little savings. I don't want anything to do with reincarnation, but I understand some things that you don't want to hear, you probably didn't even read my post. That's OK. I know, to some extent, what constitutes who-what I am, at the deepest level. I know what does not constitute ~my self~, IOW, what is imaginary. I know the difference, meaning, I know how to live through who I am in actuality. I also know to some extent what the possibility is for a man (or woman of course), and the way to that. Gurdjieff said, I can teach you how to make shoes, but you have to make the shoes. That's what I learned. And then many things are not taught, you have to come to understand by doing the inner work. You could say that there is a ladder, and sometimes you have to build the next step. If you don't, you don't get to the next step that's already there, IOW, some rungs are built by doing the inner work. And if you don't, you eventually drift on to something else. So, some of these things, in one way or another, are about all I have ever posted here on ST's for 5+ years. Not many people are interested, that's OK too. (But I get some kind words from time to time, that's appreciated). I sincerely wouldn't wish on anybody what I've been through the last 40 years, and even all my life, but I wouldn't trade them for anything. But only so much can be said, and if what is said does not provoke any interest, then that's that. I did read it all. So? You think you are so darn unique in being insecure and inhibited? And you think anyone gives a s*^t about that, about your life and your struggle? Everyone out there is concerned about THEIR OWN. Get used to it. What do all those dusty tomes of someone else's 'wise' words teach you that you don't know already? You have absolutely no explicit TRUST in your own being, your voice, your wisdom, which I know you posses in spades. Yet... here you come, cut and paste hundreds of quotes, cling on for dear life to those.. is that YOUR experience? Where the hell ARE you?? Stop living in the head. You are way past small steps, this lifetime snail race all the way to the grave. You are going to be dead in a few years.. or even tomorrow. There is nothing to fear and all to be found. Absolutely everything is be found in what you push away unconsciously. Go lie on a tombstone, feel its rough edge, read the engraved names of those who walked this earth before you... where are they now? Loved, suffered, believed, bought into illusions.. where are they? Contemplate that, contemplate the never ending FOREVER, forever 'no you'.. can you feel it? Can you? And you dare scorn at this life??! Are you going to fall in love with own uniqueness? Because you HAVE TO, before you can love the entire universe. Who cares there are loud ones out there, the world needs all kinds, all part of the one fantastic energy, the human energy expressed in billions, all carry their own signature, but they FEEL AND LOVE AND HATE AND THINK AND SUFFER - the same. Jump. JUMP!! tano, you didn't understand my post at all. You concentrated on the superfluous parts and didn't respond at all to the important. The superfluous ~delivered~ ~me~ to the important.But you are right about "contemplate that", what makes you think I have not contemplated that? "The sole means now for the saving of the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant again into their presences a new organ, an organ like Kundabuffer, but this time of such properties that every one of these unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitably of his own death as well as the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests". pg 1183 And the other, ..."...and acting according to the wise saying of ancient times affirming that 'in order to be in reality a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist'...... pg 1236, All and Everything, First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, 1950, G Gurdjieff |
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Post by figgles on Dec 15, 2015 13:21:39 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1450128787000" class="time" title="Dec 15, 2015 4:33:07 GMT 7">Dec 15, 2015 4:33:07 GMT 7</abbr> stardustpilgrim said: Growing up, from as early as I can remember.....well, not true, say from beginning of school, first grade on, I was the most shy, inhibited and insecure person who ever lived. (Of course that's a slight exaggeration, but only slight). If there was structure, I could do that, work, study, interact with teachers, I could do that. I was perfectly happy and secure while alone, but if I had to interact with anyone, my head would be empty and I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to carry on a conversation. I could play ball, play games, I could do things around a central activity, but if there was no central activity, I didn't know how to interact with people. I was fine alone, most comfortable alone, I was myself, alone. This was not too hard being young, but the older I got the more difficult it became. So I spent most of my free time alone. But as I got older I wanted to have friends, but didn't know how. I felt invisible, and was even surprised sometimes when someone said something to me in school. More times than not this was, You sure are quiet. I felt trapped inside myself. In High School (late '60's) I began learning a little something about psychology, and as a Sr. began studying the metaphysical stuff. This, in the beginning, was mainly from a standpoint of why I am the way I am. It didn't really help to know there might be a reason for why I am the way I am. The Vietnam War was going on when I finished HS, so college was my only option. It continued giving me structure, plus it kept me out of the war, college deferment. But then I also had to think of, what about after college, what am I going to do with my life. Most everything I considered, nope, can't do that, you have to interact with people to do that. After two years of college there was the first draft lottery, my number was 360 (out of 366, I was born in a leap year). So, no chance of getting drafted, so I no longer had to have my college deferment. So I started dropping classes, mostly all my time was spent studying esoteric-metaphysical-type stuff. I finished only 17 more hours in the next year and a half. And things got nasty, I started getting depressed. And then ya-da, ya-da, ya-da, I've already told you some of the rest. But basically, from 1976 onward, I have had little interest in life, outer life. My conditioning plays out. I have certain needs. I managed to get married along the way, have four kids (marriage lasted 15 years). I stumbled into a job I didn't really like, 1980, but turned out to be ideal for me. Most of the time I dealt with houses and tools, and to some extent my own boss and to a little more extent my building contractor. When I started running a crew, I usually trained my own helpers. I usually got stuck with the worst guy hired. I had a few very good helpers over the years, but these usually moved on after about two years. But even this was just work, just a work relationship. For over twenty years I worked mostly for the same contractor, he liked me and I like working for him. I did that for 33 years, and two years ago I retired from being an electrician. I have lived of SS for two years and a little savings. I don't want anything to do with reincarnation, but I understand some things that you don't want to hear, you probably didn't even read my post. That's OK. I know, to some extent, what constitutes who-what I am, at the deepest level. I know what does not constitute ~my self~, IOW, what is imaginary. I know the difference, meaning, I know how to live through who I am in actuality. I also know to some extent what the possibility is for a man (or woman of course), and the way to that. Gurdjieff said, I can teach you how to make shoes, but you have to make the shoes. That's what I learned. And then many things are not taught, you have to come to understand by doing the inner work. You could say that there is a ladder, and sometimes you have to build the next step. If you don't, you don't get to the next step that's already there, IOW, some rungs are built by doing the inner work. And if you don't, you eventually drift on to something else. So, some of these things, in one way or another, are about all I have ever posted here on ST's for 5+ years. Not many people are interested, that's OK too. (But I get some kind words from time to time, that's appreciated). I sincerely wouldn't wish on anybody what I've been through the last 40 years, and even all my life, but I wouldn't trade them for anything.But only so much can be said, and if what is said does not provoke any interest, then that's that. I did read it all. So? You think you are so darn unique in being insecure and inhibited? And you think anyone gives a s*^t about that, about your life and your struggle? Everyone out there is concerned about THEIR OWN. Get used to it. What do all those dusty tomes of someone else's 'wise' words teach you that you don't know already? You have absolutely no explicit TRUST in your own being, your voice, your wisdom, which I know you posses in spades. Yet... here you come, cut and paste hundreds of quotes, cling on for dear life to those.. is that YOUR experience? Where the hell ARE you?? Stop living in the head. You are way past small steps, this lifetime snail race all the way to the grave. You are going to be dead in a few years.. or even tomorrow. There is nothing to fear and all to be found. Absolutely everything is be found in what you push away unconsciously. Go lie on a tombstone, feel its rough edge, read the engraved names of those who walked this earth before you... where are they now? Loved, suffered, believed, bought into illusions.. where are they? Contemplate that, contemplate the never ending FOREVER, forever 'no you'.. can you feel it? Can you? And you dare scorn at this life??! Are you going to fall in love with own uniqueness? Because you HAVE TO, before you can love the entire universe. Who cares there are loud ones out there, the world needs all kinds, all part of the one fantastic energy, the human energy expressed in billions, all carry their own signature, but they FEEL AND LOVE AND HATE AND THINK AND SUFFER - the same.
Jump. JUMP!! Where in SDP's post did you read him saying he believes otherwise? Seems to me you are the one denying that human energies expressed, all carry their own unique signature.....you are reading SDP's account, expressed in his own unique way, with his own unique signature, and imposing your way, your signature as being the correct one. I read his post and heard him saying much the same as what you are saying, simply using different words...with a different energy. Not everyone is a 'warrior.' Some create their path through 'smoothing the way'....others with a machete. In the end, it matters not the means....all paths lead to Rome. |
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Post by figgles on Dec 15, 2015 13:34:36 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1450194094000" class="time" title="Dec 15, 2015 22:41:34 GMT 7">Dec 15, 2015 22:41:34 GMT 7</abbr> stardustpilgrim said: tano, you didn't understand my post at all. You concentrated on the superfluous parts and didn't respond at all to the important. The superfluous ~delivered~ ~me~ to the important.But you are right about "contemplate that", what makes you think I have not contemplated that? "The sole means now for the saving of the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant again into their presences a new organ, an organ like Kundabuffer, but this time of such properties that every one of these unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitably of his own death as well as the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests". pg 1183 And the other, ..."...and acting according to the wise saying of ancient times affirming that 'in order to be in reality a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist'...... pg 1236, All and Everything, First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, 1950, G Gurdjieff Oh no, I got it alright. Except... you read, talk, think, contemplate - and still are in the search mode. Ask yourself (not anyone else) why this is the case. " a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist"
Yes. This is Love. You are not able to love others, because you can't love yourself.Jump.. or not. Seriously?  The crux of his message in that (quite beautiful imo) post, was, his journey to Love. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 15, 2015 14:09:53 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1450194094000" class="time" title="Dec 15, 2015 22:41:34 GMT 7">Dec 15, 2015 22:41:34 GMT 7</abbr> stardustpilgrim said: tano, you didn't understand my post at all. You concentrated on the superfluous parts and didn't respond at all to the important. The superfluous ~delivered~ ~me~ to the important.But you are right about "contemplate that", what makes you think I have not contemplated that? "The sole means now for the saving of the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant again into their presences a new organ, an organ like Kundabuffer, but this time of such properties that every one of these unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitably of his own death as well as the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests". pg 1183 And the other, ..."...and acting according to the wise saying of ancient times affirming that 'in order to be in reality a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist'...... pg 1236, All and Everything, First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, 1950, G Gurdjieff Oh no, I got it alright. Except... you read, talk, think, contemplate - and still are in the search mode. Ask yourself (not anyone else) why this is the case." a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist"
Yes. This is Love. You are not able to love others, because you can't love yourself. Jump.. or not. Hey tano, (and figgles, thanks), I met my teacher and my teaching in one night in March of 1976, although it took about three weeks to understand that. Despite what you think the appearance is (or anybody else), I haven't searched for a teaching to replace it, there isn't anything like it on the face of the earth. I haven't asked anybody for anything here on ST's, I've left on two occasions, for months. I don't share experiences (except to some limited extent, and that very rarely) and I don't share practices (except sometimes to name them). I try to post from my understanding within those and other restraints. I mostly read to be able to relate to where other people are coming from, but yes, I enjoy reading, I enjoy movies too, and some TV, but I am not in search mode. If I quote somebody, it's usually to say something I do not wish to say explicitly. But of course you are entitled to your opinion. |
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Post by zin on Dec 15, 2015 17:30:12 GMT -5
I did read it all. So? You think you are so darn unique in being insecure and inhibited? And you think anyone gives a s*^t about that, about your life and your struggle? Everyone out there is concerned about THEIR OWN. Get used to it. What do all those dusty tomes of someone else's 'wise' words teach you that you don't know already? You have absolutely no explicit TRUST in your own being, your voice, your wisdom, which I know you posses in spades. Yet... here you come, cut and paste hundreds of quotes, cling on for dear life to those.. is that YOUR experience? Where the hell ARE you?? Stop living in the head. You are way past small steps, this lifetime snail race all the way to the grave. You are going to be dead in a few years.. or even tomorrow. There is nothing to fear and all to be found. Absolutely everything is be found in what you push away unconsciously. Go lie on a tombstone, feel its rough edge, read the engraved names of those who walked this earth before you... where are they now? Loved, suffered, believed, bought into illusions.. where are they? Contemplate that, contemplate the never ending FOREVER, forever 'no you'.. can you feel it? Can you? And you dare scorn at this life??! Are you going to fall in love with own uniqueness? Because you HAVE TO, before you can love the entire universe. Who cares there are loud ones out there, the world needs all kinds, all part of the one fantastic energy, the human energy expressed in billions, all carry their own signature, but they FEEL AND LOVE AND HATE AND THINK AND SUFFER - the same. Jump. JUMP!! tano, you didn't understand my post at all. You concentrated on the superfluous parts and didn't respond at all to the important. The superfluous ~delivered~ ~me~ to the important.But you are right about "contemplate that", what makes you think I have not contemplated that? "The sole means now for the saving of the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant again into their presences a new organ, an organ like Kundabuffer, but this time of such properties that every one of these unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitably of his own death as well as the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests". pg 1183 And the other, ..."...and acting according to the wise saying of ancient times affirming that 'in order to be in reality a just and good altruist it is inevitably required to be an out and out egoist'...... pg 1236, All and Everything, First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, 1950, G Gurdjieff This is one of the few quotes which come to my mind when I hear about Gurdjieff: "Go out one clear starlit night to some open space and look up at the sky, at those millions of worlds over your head. Remember that perhaps on each of them swarm billions of beings, similar to you or perhaps superior to you in their organization. Look at the Milky Way. The earth cannot even be called a grain of sand in this infinity. It dissolves and vanishes, and with it, you. Where are you? And is what you want simply madness?" from 'Views from the real world' ..I put it thinking it's beautiful.. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 5:16:49 GMT -5
y es. Physical pain is as real as it gets, and anyone who says otherwise is full of bs.
A BOLD and sweeping statement that is, no doubt from someone who has traversed all the heights and depths of him\her self and uncovered the mysteries of life,mind,body consciousness etc.etc.We lay in prostrate devotion at your smelly (´´bs´´...) feet. all physical sensation is prone to conditioning.But, as Sri Aurobindo mentions, they re just temporary agreements of the senses.They are not final and not binding. I once had a nagging toothache, and remembered this.INSTANLY the pain reversed into a pleasant sensation--this doesnt happen always, i was just shown by my inner guide that this is actully true. Another time i sat on the floor in room full of dopesmoking hippies,very crowded,a couple of dogs,someone playing guitar.At some point a dog pukes his dinner on the floor,one meter away from me...some EEEK!!´s from peeps next to me alerted me to it......As the scent of the puke reached my nose, i was amazed to smell the most delicious thing that has ever reached my nostrils, propelling me into ecstasy...No i was not on drugs nor alcohol. it is all conditioning,and as such, all manipulatable. I don't have smelly feet. It's hot here, wear mostly flip flops. A nagging toothache is the only physical pain you've known? I exclude dog's puke, bad example, doesn't come from own body. If that's the case... then sure, it is all 'conditioning' to you plus a healthy doze of another's (Sri Auro) experience.
Wait when you are on a morphine drip. as far as other mens experience--there is no ´´other´´, it is all YOU, and you heavily rely on them--how did you think your computer came into existence? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 6:12:01 GMT -5
Habit of Response
The first thing the seeker will detect in his vital exploration is a part of
the mind whose only role seems to be to give form, and justification,
to his impulses, feelings or desires; this is what Sri Aurobindo terms
the vital mind.
Since we already know the necessity for mental
silence, we will now strive to extend our discipline of silence to this
lower mental layer, too.
Once this has been achieved, we will see
things far more clearly – without all their mental embellishments; the
various vibrations of our being will appear in their true light and at
their true level.
Most importantly, however, we will be able to see
these vibrations coming. In this zone of silence we have now become,
the slightest movement of substance – mental, vital or other – will be
like a signal for us; we will immediately know that something has
touched our atmosphere.
We will thus become aware, spontaneously,
of the many vibrations people constantly emanate without realizing it;
we will know exactly what is going on and whom we are facing (a
person's external veneer having usually nothing to do with that
unostentatious vibrating reality).
Our relationships with the outer
world will become clear: we will understand why we instinctively like
or dislike someone, why we feel afraid or ill at ease – then we will be
able to correct our reactions, accept the helpful vibrations, deflect the
darker vibrations, and neutralize the harmful ones.
Indeed, we will
notice quite an interesting phenomenon: our inner silence has power.
If, instead of responding to the incoming vibration, we maintain an
absolute inner stillness, we will notice that this stillness dissolves the
vibration; it's as if we were surrounded by a field of snow in which all
impacts are absorbed and neutralized.
Let us take the simple example
of anger: if, instead of vibrating inwardly in unison with the person
facing us, we can remain absolutely still within, we will see that
person's anger gradually dissolving. Mother observed that this inner
stillness, this power not to respond, can even stop an assassin's hand or
a snake's bite. But wearing an impassive mask while we are still
boiling on the inside will not do; we cannot cheat with vibrations (as
animals know full well).
This has nothing to do with so-called selfcontrol,
which is only a mastery of appearances, but with true inner
mastery. Moreover, this silence can neutralize any vibration at all, for
the simple reason that all vibrations are contagious, from the highest
vibrations to the lowest (this is how a master can pass on spiritual
experiences or a power to a disciple), and it is up to us to accept the
contagion or not; if we become afraid, it means we have already
accepted the contagion, and hence have already accepted the angry
man's blow or the snake's bite.
(One can also accept a blow out of
love, like Sri Ramakrishna, who at the sight of a cart driver beating an
ox, suddenly cried out in pain and found himself lacerated and
bleeding, his back covered with lash marks.)
The same holds for
physical pain; we can allow the contagion of a painful vibration to
overcome us, or, instead, circumscribe the area of pain and eventually,
depending on the degree of our mastery, neutralize the pain by
disconnecting the consciousness from that area.
The key to mastery is
always silence, at every level, because silence enables us to discern
the vibrations, and to discern them is to be able to act upon them. This
has countless practical applications, and hence countless opportunities
for progress. Ordinary everyday life (which is ordinary only for those
who live it ordinarily) becomes an extraordinary field of experience
and handling of vibrations, which is why Sri Aurobindo always
wanted his yoga to encompass it. It is very easy to live isolated in a
flawless illusion of self-mastery.
This power of silence or inner immobility has even more
significant applications, for our own psychological life. The vital is
not only a place of many troubles and perturbations, it is also the
source of a great energy;etc...
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 16, 2015 8:19:53 GMT -5
Hey tano, (and figgles, thanks), I met my teacher and my teaching in one night in March of 1976, although it took about three weeks to understand that. Despite what you think the appearance is (or anybody else), I haven't searched for a teaching to replace it, there isn't anything like it on the face of the earth. I haven't asked anybody for anything here on ST's, I've left on two occasions, for months. I don't share experiences (except to some limited extent, and that very rarely) and I don't share practices (except sometimes to name them). I try to post from my understanding within those and other restraints. I mostly read to be able to relate to where other people are coming from, but yes, I enjoy reading, I enjoy movies too, and some TV, but I am not in search mode. If I quote somebody, it's usually to say something I do not wish to say explicitly. But of course you are entitled to your opinion. Hyacinths for the soul. OK. I will accept that that's the Persian by Mosleh Eddin Sadi,  and not the Greek original  . |
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Post by figgles on Dec 16, 2015 11:50:15 GMT -5
Figgles, I am not Jed. While our perspectives are similar on many things, we are vastly different in our being, chalk and cheese, as a matter of fact. Exactly. so why do you immediatly jump to defend him whenever I've pointed out something that doesn't seem to add up? Yes. In this case though, sounds as though the 'thorn' has not yet been thrown out....that you have made a special place in your heart for it, that you revere it and uphold it....have become somewhat attached to it. On that note.... Did you move to SE Asia before or after you encountered the forum Jed? Sounds like that's where he currently lives too? The thing is, when one is truly attached to a particular perspective, they will not actually be 'lying' in what they express from that perspective, to them, that IS truth...in that case, the body that registers resonance or not, is part & parcel of that...comes along for the ride.... Clarity about how perspective itself gives rise to truths and falsities pretty much takes care of that. |
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Post by figgles on Dec 16, 2015 12:25:11 GMT -5
Exactly. so why do you immediatly jump to defend him whenever I've pointed out something that doesn't seem to add up? Yes. In this case though, sounds as though the 'thorn' has not yet been thrown out....that you have made a special place in your heart for it, that you revere it and uphold it....have become somewhat attached to it. On that note.... Did you move to SE Asia before or after you encountered the forum Jed? Sounds like that's where he currently lives too? The thing is, when one is truly attached to a particular perspective, they will not actually be 'lying' in what they express from that perspective, to them, that IS truth...in that case, the body that registers resonance or not, is part & parcel of that...comes along for the ride.... Clarity about how perspective itself gives rise to truths and falsities pretty much takes care of that. There are no 'truths'. There is Truth. It is perspectiveless and absolute. There are a few people I hold in high esteem. Those are the ones who CONTRIBUTED to my evolution in ways which no other beings ever did. There aren't many, can count those on one hand. But they exist. Figgles, you asked me if I was open. You read my story here. You have an idea where I am and how I got there, both in a physical sense and otherwise. You keep asking people about their 'positions', 'perspectives', 'points of view' on this and that, keep trying to find some holes in their stories. What about - you? What do I know - of you? Nothing. All the questioning from you is designed to serve one purpose only (even when you don't see it) - to divert attention from your own being. At the cost of sounding arrogant... I percieve you as fake - for now. I don't invite fake people into my life.. unless they stop being fake. So please.. take your fake goods elsewhere. Unless you want to be open - we have nothing in common. Thank you for the interaction.Fair enough....Sharon.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 5:35:09 GMT -5
There are no 'truths'. There is Truth. It is perspectiveless and absolute. There are a few people I hold in high esteem. Those are the ones who CONTRIBUTED to my evolution in ways which no other beings ever did. There aren't many, can count those on one hand. But they exist. Figgles, you asked me if I was open. You read my story here. You have an idea where I am and how I got there, both in a physical sense and otherwise. You keep asking people about their 'positions', 'perspectives', 'points of view' on this and that, keep trying to find some holes in their stories. What about - you? What do I know - of you? Nothing. All the questioning from you is designed to serve one purpose only (even when you don't see it) - to divert attention from your own being. At the cost of sounding arrogant... I percieve you as fake - for now. I don't invite fake people into my life.. unless they stop being fake. So please.. take your fake goods elsewhere. Unless you want to be open - we have nothing in common. Thank you for the interaction.Fair enough....Sharon.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 5:50:06 GMT -5
Habit of Response The first thing the seeker will detect in his vital exploration is a part of the mind whose only role seems to be to give form, and justification, to his impulses, feelings or desires; this is what Sri Aurobindo terms the vital mind. Since we already know the necessity for mental silence, we will now strive to extend our discipline of silence to this lower mental layer, too. Once this has been achieved, we will see things far more clearly – without all their mental embellishments; the various vibrations of our being will appear in their true light and at their true level. Most importantly, however, we will be able to see these vibrations coming. In this zone of silence we have now become, the slightest movement of substance – mental, vital or other – will be like a signal for us; we will immediately know that something has touched our atmosphere. We will thus become aware, spontaneously, of the many vibrations people constantly emanate without realizing it; we will know exactly what is going on and whom we are facing (a person's external veneer having usually nothing to do with that unostentatious vibrating reality). Our relationships with the outer world will become clear: we will understand why we instinctively like or dislike someone, why we feel afraid or ill at ease – then we will be able to correct our reactions, accept the helpful vibrations, deflect the darker vibrations, and neutralize the harmful ones. Indeed, we will notice quite an interesting phenomenon: our inner silence has power. If, instead of responding to the incoming vibration, we maintain an absolute inner stillness, we will notice that this stillness dissolves the vibration; it's as if we were surrounded by a field of snow in which all impacts are absorbed and neutralized. Let us take the simple example of anger: if, instead of vibrating inwardly in unison with the person facing us, we can remain absolutely still within, we will see that person's anger gradually dissolving. Mother observed that this inner stillness, this power not to respond, can even stop an assassin's hand or a snake's bite. But wearing an impassive mask while we are still boiling on the inside will not do; we cannot cheat with vibrations (as animals know full well). This has nothing to do with so-called selfcontrol, which is only a mastery of appearances, but with true inner mastery. Moreover, this silence can neutralize any vibration at all, for the simple reason that all vibrations are contagious, from the highest vibrations to the lowest (this is how a master can pass on spiritual
experiences or a power to a disciple), and it is up to us to accept the contagion or not; if we become afraid, it means we have already accepted the contagion, and hence have already accepted the angry man's blow or the snake's bite. (One can also accept a blow out of love, like Sri Ramakrishna, who at the sight of a cart driver beating an ox, suddenly cried out in pain and found himself lacerated and bleeding, his back covered with lash marks.)
The same holds for
physical pain; we can allow the contagion of a painful vibration to
overcome us, or, instead, circumscribe the area of pain and eventually,
depending on the degree of our mastery, neutralize the pain by
disconnecting the consciousness from that area. The key to mastery is always silence, at every level, because silence enables us to discern the vibrations, and to discern them is to be able to act upon them. This has countless practical applications, and hence countless opportunities for progress. Ordinary everyday life (which is ordinary only for those who live it ordinarily) becomes an extraordinary field of experience and handling of vibrations, which is why Sri Aurobindo always wanted his yoga to encompass it. It is very easy to live isolated in a flawless illusion of self-mastery. This power of silence or inner immobility has even more significant applications, for our own psychological life. The vital is not only a place of many troubles and perturbations, it is also the source of a great energy;etc... More names. Not you. like--yadayadajedjedyadayadajedJed? its ALL you, include, instead of exlude. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 6:59:22 GMT -5
as far as other mens experience--there is no ´´other´´, it is all YOU, and you heavily rely on them--how did you think your computer came into existence?on ´´the seventh day´´ perhaps? I am not sure how it relates to what I have written. You made quite a few edits to this post. For the record... I've read all of them. Starting with the first one evasive as always--i´ll try again as far as other mens experience--there is no ´´other´´, it is all YOU, and you heavily rely on them--how did you think your computer came into existence? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 7:23:16 GMT -5
Another observation, which follows from the first, becomes
plainly apparent: that of the utter powerlessness of the vital to help
others, or even simply to communicate with others, except when there
is a meeting of egos.
There is not a single vital vibration emanating
from us, or relayed by us, that cannot immediately change into its
opposite in the other person.
We need only wish someone well for the
corresponding ill feeling or resistance or opposite reaction to awaken
automatically, as if it were being received at the same time as the
other; the process seems as spontaneous and inevitable as a chemical
reaction. Indeed, the vital does not seek to help, it always seeks to
take, in every possible manner. All our feelings are tainted with
grabbing. Our feeling of sadness – any sadness – at a friend's betrayal,
for example, is the sure sign of our ego's involvement, for if we truly
loved people for themselves, and not for ourselves, we would love
them in any circumstances, even as adversaries; we would feel the joy
of their existence in all cases. Our sorrows and sufferings are actually
always the sign of a mixture, and therefore always deceitful. Joy alone
is true.
Because only the "I" within us that embraces all existences and
all possible opposites of existence is true.
We suffer because we put
things outside ourselves. When all is inside, all is joy, because there is
no longer any gap anywhere.
"But what about the 'Heart'?" we may protest. Well, isn't the heart
in fact the most ambivalent place of all? It tires easily, too. And this is
our third observation: Our capacity for joy is small, as is our capacity
for suffering; we soon grow indifferent to the worst calamities.
.What
waters of oblivion have not flowed over our greatest sorrows? We can
contain very little of the great Force of Life – we cannot withstand the
charge, as Mother says; a mere breath beyond the limit, and we cry
out with joy or pain, we weep, dance, or faint.
It is always the same
ambiguous Force that flows, and before long overflows. The Force of
Life does not suffer; it is not troubled or exalted, evil or good – it just
is, flowing serenely, all-encompassing.
All the contrary signs it
assumes in us are the vestiges of our past evolution, when we were
small and separate, when we needed to protect ourselves from this
living enormity too intense for our size, and had to distinguish
between "useful" and "harmful" vibrations, the ones getting a positive
coefficient of pleasure or sympathy or good, the others a negative
coefficient of suffering or repulsion or evil.
But suffering is only a too
great intensity of the same Force, and too intense a pleasure changes
into its painful "opposite
": They are conventions of our senses, says
Sri Aurobindo. It only takes a slight shift of the needle of
consciousness, says the Mother.
To cosmic consciousness in its state
of complete knowledge and complete experience all touches come as
joy, Ananda.74 It is the narrowness and deficiency of consciousness
that cause all our troubles, moral and even physical, as well as our
impotence and the perpetual tragicomedy of our existence. But the
remedy is not to starve the vital, as the moralists would have us do; it
is to widen it; not to renounce, but to accept more, always more, andetcfrom ´´the adventure of consciousness´´ by satprem
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The crux of his message in that (quite beautiful imo) post, was, his journey to Love. 
and not the Greek original 
. 
