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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 11, 2015 10:33:24 GMT -5
He once was under that delusion, sure. There is no magic transformation that has the ascended one sh!tting rainbows all over the sky. It's just that one moment there is the illusion of peepness, and then, in another, it's gone. OK. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Dec 11, 2015 10:49:37 GMT -5
No, he actually said the exact opposite. Niz: ....In my world it is always fine weather. ...My world is free of thoughts, for there are no desires to slave for. Q: Are there two worlds/ Niz: Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world--I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming. Q: What distinguishes your world from mine? Niz: My world has no characteristics by which it can be identified. You can say nothing about it. I am my world. My world is myself. It is complete and perfect. Every impression is erased, every experience--rejected. I need nothing, not even myself, for myself I cannot lose. ........Niz:...My world is real, while your world is made of dreams. Q: Yet you are talking. Niz: The talk is in your world. In mine--there is eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there. I Am That, pages 79,80. My emphasis. I would say Niz is saying he is beyond all his own past peeply conditioning.There is a deeper understanding to be realized here. Niz smoked like a rabbit multiples but whenever anyone called him on it his reply was ""I don't have the impression that I smoke". Sounds like a blatant contradiction right? But is it?  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 11, 2015 10:57:59 GMT -5
Niz: ....In my world it is always fine weather. ...My world is free of thoughts, for there are no desires to slave for. Q: Are there two worlds/ Niz: Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world--I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming. Q: What distinguishes your world from mine? Niz: My world has no characteristics by which it can be identified. You can say nothing about it. I am my world. My world is myself. It is complete and perfect. Every impression is erased, every experience--rejected. I need nothing, not even myself, for myself I cannot lose. ........Niz:...My world is real, while your world is made of dreams. Q: Yet you are talking. Niz: The talk is in your world. In mine--there is eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there. I Am That, pages 79,80. My emphasis. I would say Niz is saying he is beyond all his own past peeply conditioning.There is a deeper understanding to be realized here. Niz smoked like a rabbit multiples but whenever anyone called him on it his reply was ""I don't have the impression that I smoke". Sounds like a blatant contradiction right? But is it? Well...I think Niz was ready to die any time. He probably didn't care to deny the body a little pleasure... |
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 11, 2015 11:00:27 GMT -5
Niz: ....In my world it is always fine weather. ...My world is free of thoughts, for there are no desires to slave for. Q: Are there two worlds/ Niz: Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world--I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming. Q: What distinguishes your world from mine? Niz: My world has no characteristics by which it can be identified. You can say nothing about it. I am my world. My world is myself. It is complete and perfect. Every impression is erased, every experience--rejected. I need nothing, not even myself, for myself I cannot lose. ........Niz:...My world is real, while your world is made of dreams. Q: Yet you are talking. Niz: The talk is in your world. In mine--there is eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until you are there. I Am That, pages 79,80. My emphasis. I would say Niz is saying he is beyond all his own past peeply conditioning.There is a deeper understanding to be realized here. Niz smoked like a rabbit multiples but whenever anyone called him on it his reply was ""I don't have the impression that I smoke". Sounds like a blatant contradiction right? But is it? I don't see the contradiction with what sdp wrote. It's pretty rad. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Dec 11, 2015 11:21:42 GMT -5
There is a deeper understanding to be realized here. Niz smoked like a rabbit multiples but whenever anyone called him on it his reply was ""I don't have the impression that I smoke". Sounds like a blatant contradiction right? But is it? I don't see the contradiction with what sdp wrote. It's pretty rad. I don't either. But I was pointing to the fact that Niz smoked like a chimney yet said "I don't have the impression that I smoke" when anyone questioned him about it. I'm sure that got many a poor folk scratching their head.  |
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 11, 2015 11:46:25 GMT -5
I don't see the contradiction with what sdp wrote. It's pretty rad. I don't either. But I was pointing to the fact that Niz smoked like a chimney yet said "I don't have the impression that I smoke" when anyone questioned him about it. I'm sure that got many a poor folk scratching their head. Reminds me of the story where the student asks the sage "why can't you let go of smoking?" and the sage replies "why can't you let go of smoking?" |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 12:00:19 GMT -5
He does enjoy "all the sleeping puppets' as you put it... what tells you otherwise? A text in a book which is perception captured in the moment, here today and gone tomorrow?yes, I am discussing the text and it's meaning in the McKenna series of books. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not personally know the character "Jed McKenna" beyond the words in those texts, nor the author of the books....the books is all I have to go on. The following excerpt for one, clearly explains how the book Jed experiences a sense of 'feeling apart' from the others who appear in his experience, and surely it's not a stretch to say that someone who deems himself incapable of carrying on a basic conversation with others in a grocery line, or going to a bar having a beer, engaging in a game of pool, is devoid of 'enjoyment' of those others..? The character/author has it all wrong on that note; If awakening results in feeling less connected to and in need of avoiding others appearing in your reality, you've made a wrong turn somewhere. seeing through all the BS should make it easier, not harder to see and connect with the "God-spark" in every being, however deeply veiled it may at that moment, be. From this place of clarity, one is able to see the divinity in even the most deluded of individuals...In fact the greater the clarity, the harder it is to see anything but...this is when reality itself shifts and the individuals appearing and whom we interface with in our day to day reality begin to act and behave in ways that reflect their innate divinity. If we are only able to see the surface BS of most others appearing to us in a way that creates a divide of the kind that the Jed character describes above, any realization had has been shallow at best. [/i]LOL he is doing exactly that, NOW, as we speak, and on his terms. [/quote] That is assuming the forum Jed is the same character in the books. & According to what I've heard, there's an effort in progress, legal wrangling that have been going on for some time, but are just now being seriously asserted, to shut that thing down. Will be interesting to see how things unfold. Apparently because "Jed McKenna" is just a fictional character created by the author, the rights to the name are pretty loosey-goosey....and the fact that the forum Jed does not outright advertise himself as the Jed of the books has given him a fair bit of leeway and protection. Will be interesting to see how things unfold there.... in one online discussion about it all, someone who posts there had noticed that the forum owner had fairly recently gone into some past posts where he had vaguely affirmed he was the same Jed of the book series, and either deleted or edited those affirmations to read 'softer.' Just curious....How will you feel if it gets revealed that the Jed of the forum is not the same Jed who wrote the books? Duped? could care less..? |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 12:02:44 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1449790836000" class="time" title="Dec 11, 2015 6:40:36 GMT 7">Dec 11, 2015 6:40:36 GMT 7</abbr> laughter said: Sometimes people can directly reveal that they're asleep by insisting that their subjective rejection of an objective fact is just "their world", because there is no "world out there". As Jed wrote in the first book, solopsism is where every philosopher eventually gets stuck, which is why it can be fertile ground. What can be amazing -- and what you're encountering here -- is just how baroque and wending the stories underlying some of those illusions can become, and how attached to them (even a simple and trivial one), peeps can get. The gratitude that rises with the renewal that is the timeless eternity of the moment comes with a beauty that blinds the peep, even the peeps who do feel genuine gratitude from time to time. There do seem to be alot of those, anyway. It's impossible to explain the ordinariness of this, and that's the peep missing simplicity, yet again. What is realized in TR is a commonality between all human beings that is oddly just too immediate for them perceive. It's easy to retreat into this untouchable territory behind 'my world', who could possibly dispute THAT? But WHOSE world is it really? Or even... IS IT?Yes! All talk of "The world" is rendered "bla-bla" when that is really grasped. |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 12:51:53 GMT -5
Not so. YOU were dicussing the possibility of feeling NOT special. But you can't see this is what you are doing. Not now, I never said anything otherwise. Can you please stop playing these games? I really am not playing games Tano. Just trying to converse with you. If I'm guilty of anything here, it 'aint game-playing at all, more just making the faulty assumption of continuity of subject of conversation. "except clarity and knowing"....that's actually a pretty BIG difference. Yes, life will roll on as it has always done, but absent need based suffering...again, no small thing. That interest in 'downplaying' of the difference seems to me to be a false sort of humility. If there were no difference between TR and not being TR, there would be no Enlightenment Trilogy...no Invisible Guru forum. As opposed to what? As opposed to what? |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 14:04:07 GMT -5
The point about him deleting references to being the real Jed is nonsense. From what i understand the deletions were within specific conversations where he had been pressed regarding his identity...apparently he edged a lot closer to alinging himself with the Jed of the enlightenment trilogy, than he does in those than what you referenced here. thanks for sharing those though. That said, it might be nonsense though about those deletions. I did not see the posts in question myself. Yes. But, It's entirely possible that the one running the forum has written and published books...just not 'those' books. It's funny there would be no mention of the titles or the series, as it seems he is on one hand, advocating 'the books.' ..also curious that in light of him advocating the books as he is seemingly doing, that there are no links to the publishing sight....if he truly wants folks to read his books, that's a no-brainer. Good to hear... Smart does not = awake. Re: "all and everything comes to him." Does it really? If the description below accurately describes his experience, I'd say he's missing out on the most important facet of life; A sense of communion with others. Love. And as I said before, if it's true that he is very good at manifesting a personal reality to his liking, then it's curious that his personal reality continues to be rife with unawakened others whom he has little commonality with. Doesn't sound like much fun. "It's like I can hum a few bars but I have forgotten most of the words. I can't stand in line at the grocery and carry on a normal conversation if it gets much past the weather. I can't go to a bar and have a beer and shoot a game of pool because I can't pretend to share the experiences and interests of the other patrons. In other words, there's no commonality......... No two humans could have less in common than any human and me. I am a member of no community. Because I live in a different paradigm. I am effectively set apart from humanity. ....I knew when I started on my own journey it meant leaving behind human connectedness, and that was perfectly acceptable to me. " [/quote] |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 14:14:37 GMT -5
Yes! All talk of "The world" is rendered "bla-bla" when that is really grasped. world was what I was referencing..as in an objective, consensus based fixed place...but yes, the very word 'world' even preceded by "my" also conjures up an idea......a supposed 'place' that contains unknown, unseen masses of people. Thus, I prefer to stick with the term 'experience.' |
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Post by figgles on Dec 11, 2015 14:31:20 GMT -5
FFS..... those were written YEARS ago. Are you the same as you were when 17? When 25? When 35? etc/ etc? That quote is from his first book, published in 2002. It should matter not when it was written. Supposedly it was written 'post awakening.' That's the only relevant bit really considering the reason folks read these books is because they are for the most part, genuinely interested in such. If the forum Jed is the same as the book Jed, and what he said in that quote has changed, wouldn't that be a very relevant and important change to speak about in his latter books...and now, on the forum? and considering not all his readers know of the forum, why wouldn't he have mentioned his radical change of experience in his latest book? After all, there is a world of difference between what he describes in those quotes, and living with a sense of communion and Love (with others). No need to get testy. Is it possible at all for you to take the words of the book at face value, absent what you think you know about "jed Mckenna" based upon the forum? For those of us who do not have any experience with that forum, and/or who really do not buy into the idea that it's the same person anyway, all we have to go on is the books. Seems you are saying the books should be disregarded, as they are 'old news'? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 11, 2015 17:59:46 GMT -5
No, he wasn't. He was way beyond his conditioning, and said so. I didn't say anything about conditioning. I said 'the currents of life'. OK. If you consider what Niz said, he was not effected whatsoever by the currents of life. (But no problem, I assume you haven't read Niz). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 11, 2015 18:04:20 GMT -5
I don't see the contradiction with what sdp wrote. It's pretty rad. I don't either. But I was pointing to the fact that Niz smoked like a chimney yet said " I don't have the impression that I smoke" when anyone questioned him about it. I'm sure that got many a poor folk scratching their head. I would guess he was making a joke (a little tongue -in-cheek  ....and laughing to himself  ). |
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Post by justlikeyou on Dec 11, 2015 18:06:43 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about conditioning. I said 'the currents of life'. OK. If you consider what Niz said, he was not effected whatsoever by the currents of life. (But no problem, I assume you haven't read Niz). SDP do you consider experiencing excruciating body pain from throat cancer as "not effected whatsoever" by the currents of life? |
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....and laughing to himself 
).