|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 22, 2012 23:36:37 GMT -5
I think some one hear was asking for a method of relesing or reslove beliefs . Do deep breathing untill relaxed , visualize the belief filled with white /gold light then visualize it being warshed away , or say I fill that belief with white/gold light , the white/gold light has resloved the belief .Repeet this many times unit its gone . desert rat I never understood why that would have anything to do with releasing a belief. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 22, 2012 23:41:18 GMT -5
There's a purification that happens when one is looking and seeing what's really going on, and there's no way to predict how this will take place because clarity shakes the foundations of our complex conditioning of beliefs on levels that are not fully conscious. It's Marie's experience, and was mine as well, that odd feelings would arise; fear, depression, sorrow, etc, and no obvious reason for them. This is the purification. Something is falling away and mind is reacting. It's important not to write a story about it and just let it happen. I used to have to tell her, 'stop thinking about it. You don't need to know, something is ready to die, just let it pass'. Sometimes there were tears, sometimes anger or fear, and in moments it would pass and it's gone. It means gone forever. Why did it happen? Who knows? Who cares? That's how it works. Just wanted to note how relieving it is to know that I'm not alone in experiencing this purification thing. I spose we ought to acknowledge it more so's peeps don't think they're going crazy or doing something wrong. Basically, the whole process we naturally use to make ourselves feel better our whole lives, which is mostly pushing away the bad stuff, has to be reversed. We have to feel everything we didn't want to feel, hopefully from a place of wisdom where we can allow. |
|
|
|
Post by Beingist on Jan 22, 2012 23:50:51 GMT -5
Just wanted to note how relieving it is to know that I'm not alone in experiencing this purification thing. I spose we ought to acknowledge it more so's peeps don't think they're going crazy or doing something wrong. Basically, the whole process we naturally use to make ourselves feel better our whole lives, which is mostly pushing away the bad stuff, has to be reversed. We have to feel everything we didn't want to feel, hopefully from a place of wisdom where we can allow. Yes, I've understood this rather intuitively, but it's just comforting that I'm not alone in going through the 'purification'. It can be ... 'bumpy', to use Andrew's term. |
|
|
|
Post by nobody on Jan 23, 2012 0:15:13 GMT -5
There's a purification that happens when one is looking and seeing what's really going on, and there's no way to predict how this will take place because clarity shakes the foundations of our complex conditioning of beliefs on levels that are not fully conscious. It's Marie's experience, and was mine as well, that odd feelings would arise; fear, depression, sorrow, etc, and no obvious reason for them. This is the purification. Something is falling away and mind is reacting. It's important not to write a story about it and just let it happen. I used to have to tell her, 'stop thinking about it. You don't need to know, something is ready to die, just let it pass'. Sometimes there were tears, sometimes anger or fear, and in moments it would pass and it's gone. It means gone forever. Why did it happen? Who knows? Who cares? That's how it works. Just wanted to note how relieving it is to know that I'm not alone in experiencing this purification thing. I've yet to meet any others. I sought them out because it is a lonely ordeal. I eventually gave up and realized that I was on my own. But, perhaps there are one or two on this board who don't talk about it very much. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 2:56:30 GMT -5
The releasing MAY happen by itself, but I am pretty clear as to how to accelerate the process of releasing. What makes you think Im not free of the need for self-images? The magurufication of your posts and your obsession with processes. I dont know what magurufication means but what does my 'obsession' with processes tell you about the self images that I am attached to? Just to be clear, I also see you as attached to a self-image, so I guess it makes us quits. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 2:57:03 GMT -5
Thank you for the clarification. You're welcome. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:00:52 GMT -5
E, I don't remember if you addressed this before but is conciseness and noticing some what interchangeable the way you use the words? My understanding of conciseosity is 'to the point', brief. So no, noticing, in the way I mean it, is non-conceptual, nonverbal, timeless realization. Andrew has repeatedly defined it otherwise, and I don't always have the energy or inclination to say something. I should mention that in spite of the woo woo sounding definition, it's not a different 'process' from noticing that you're lost, or that you missed an appointment or noticing that you just fell in the river and went unconscious for a time. It's actually Steven's "observing from awareness" and ZD's "non-abidance in mind", but to me it seems more to the point and perhaps more obvious and simple. We don't notice because we're not interested, or else actively interested in not noticing. That's the issue we have to deal with, which is why I have trouble agreeing that it is a practice. Nobody can actually practice timeless noticing, though perhaps the intention is useful. I have seen you play around with your definition of 'noticing'. Out of interest, given that it causes controversy, why not call it 'witnessing' then? Im sure nobody would mind that. Then on the other hand we dont really 'witness' stuff to be not true do we? We 'notice' stuff to be not true. And therein lies the difference. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:01:42 GMT -5
Am I talking in Urdu today?! Achieving the goal of relating to life in a joyful way or achieving the goal of becoming a joyful, loving, honest and open person, means, by definition, that ego will have fallen away. I'm much more joyful and loving than you, and I'm honest while you lie through your teeth. I've accomplished those goals while you're still in second grade. Never turn your back on a self proclaimed 'loving person'. ;D Who is talking about self-proclaimed? Im talking about the real deal. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:06:18 GMT -5
Im saying it doesnt alter the deep problematic subconscious beliefs. In my early days I used to get glimpses, I used to see through 'the illusion'. All it really did was inspire me to work out how to release conditioned beliefs fully. As part of this I looked at WHY I was holding onto the conditioned beliefs. How they served me. What I was scared of. What I was ashamed of. I looked at what person I was hiding from the world, I looked at what I was scared of the world seeing. I looked at my secretly held dark beliefs about myself (ironically I was equally as scared of being seen as loving as I was of being seen as evil). And then I had to figure out a way of releasing the beliefs. Having to figure out a way of releasing a belief in something that you see clearly is not so, is clearly a mind game. Either you didn't actually see anything, or you found a way to keep the game going anyway by convincing yourself the belief couldn't be changed without a strategy. I'm talking about my own actual experience, and I'm watching the same thing happen to Marie now. We talk about something, she looks, she sees, and a couple weeks later she notices she doesn't struggle with something anymore, or doesn't fear something anymore, or doesn't do something or believe something anymore. Sometimes she wonders why, because mind isn't good at tracking what it has lost, what fell away and is no longer experienced, so she asks me. I tell her. She gets it, and it opens her heart to looking some more, and something else falls away, and there's more ease and lightness and relaxation and joy and love. Mostly she doesn't know what is gone or why and doesn't need to know, and doesn't care. She just wants to be free. She thinks the love she feels growing every day is coming from me, but it is her own Love emerging from the rubble of unnecessary thoughts and beliefs that no longer entrance her or feed her. She's not trying to figure it out or become something, she's trying to empty herself. Her intention is very clear, and so clarity happens. Im not sure you have released a whole lot of attachment so I wouldnt like to say what is happening to Marie, though if she has set an intention I think thats good and stands her in good stead. As she continues to grow it may well bring some more stuff to the surface for you to look at too. I used a whole load of techniques to release my stuff on my ongoing path to becoming a loving and joyful person. EFT, NLP, Theta Healing, Sedona Method, Byron Katie's work...to name but a few. They work in my opinion and experience. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:09:25 GMT -5
Babies dont need to believe that they exist in order to experience fear and anger and shame in their parents. Humans of all ages are sensitive and empathic beings, sensitive to each other, sensitive to emotions, sensitive to their environment. From the moment of our conception we are experiencing a harsh and difficult world in which conditional love is the reality. Its also possible that our deep fears and shame our encoded in our DNA and we pass them onto our babies. If we look at dogs, the have a very very basic self-awareness, they have no belief in 'I'. Yet they too experience their owners neuroses because they are sensitive and empathic beings. I used to watch the dog whisperer, which I think is a fascinating program, because he works at least as much with the owners as he does with the dogs. Point is that as babies, we didnt need an identity in order to experience our parents neuroses. Without an identity, it means nothing to 'me'. Fear is just fear, it's not shame for our parents' neuroses or the need to be loved unconditionally. These things are only experience from within the identification, which forms first. We are talking about the root cause and Im showing you that babies are picking up their parents neuroses from the moment of conception, and thats because we are sensitive, connected, inter-relating beings. If they were unconditionally loved from day one, there would be no problematic identification. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:10:37 GMT -5
Only if it was false honesty, false openness, false joy and false love. Im talking about the real deal. Its true that in the process of becoming we may explore falsities, hell Ive done that myself, but if we just keep going, eventually the need for falsity is released too. How does ego find true honesty, openness, joy and love? I already explained. The goal is set. Every situation we require in order to heal is then given. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:16:23 GMT -5
Im repeating myself, but in order to know it to be false, there would have to be a belief somewhere in one who knows. I know I'm repeating myself, but it isn't so that there has to be someone who knows that a belief is just an imagined idea. That's just another idea. Mind will insist that something is known, but it's only mind that knows something, and the problem is it doesn't know that something is just made up. It can, however, be realized that concepts are empty. We sometimes say it can be known beyond mind, but this doesn't fly here amongst all us sophisticated nondualists. ;D For as long as you know that you know something, there is a belief in one who knows. Thats how you know you are still identified E. You still know that you know a whole load of stuff. That would actually be a good thing to notice -- that you still know that you know stuff. You could then see clearly that there is work to be done, and that the whole body need to attach has yet to be addressed. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:18:42 GMT -5
Amd what Im giving is a direct process to release the need for nonsense. If it works for you, that's fine. It's when you insist that everybody has to take the scenic route, that somebody comes along and says 'No, not so much, really'. It's the same as with split mind practices. If they are needed, then fine, but when somebody insists this is how it has to be and all the gurus recommend it, etc, then I might say, no, not so much, really. Im not saying it has to be done the way I did it at all, Im just offering what I see as an accelerated path. I do however have a problem with practices that take us in mind circles. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:24:05 GMT -5
Yea, I definitely vibrate with that, hehe. There is more suppressed anger than I ever even began to understand. A lifetime of carefully concealed crap to unload. One could seriously go crazy struggling with it all, so learning how to gracefully let it go is very useful. I suspect it's what Andrew is doing in a round about way with his tools and strategies so I guess it's cool beans. Yes. And what Im offering is a way to invite the crap to the surface at an accelerated rate. Its only for those that are fed up with playing non-dual games though. Its for those willing to acknowledge their ambition. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2012 3:26:50 GMT -5
I think some one hear was asking for a method of relesing or reslove beliefs . Do deep breathing untill relaxed , visualize the belief filled with white /gold light then visualize it being warshed away , or say I fill that belief with white/gold light , the white/gold light has resloved the belief .Repeet this many times unit its gone . desert rat Yep, I can see that could work. |
|
