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Post by topology on Aug 4, 2012 7:05:56 GMT -5
I would argue that relying on the single pointer "there is no self" doesn't really remove a self, just replaces it with a self-image obsessed with a single pointer about "there is no self" The 'self' doesn't exist, which is why it can't be replaced by anything. Doesn't matter what you're obsessed about, it's never a self that is obsessed. How about this way of saying it, given that self doesn't exist, going around and trying to alleviate people of their selves is nonsensical. |
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Post by question on Aug 4, 2012 7:18:50 GMT -5
The 'self' doesn't exist, which is why it can't be replaced by anything. Doesn't matter what you're obsessed about, it's never a self that is obsessed. How about this way of saying it, given that self doesn't exist, going around and trying to alleviate people of their selves is nonsensical. Nobody is trying to alleviate people of their selves. The task is to alleviate people from the belief in a self. |
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Post by topology on Aug 4, 2012 10:36:07 GMT -5
How about this way of saying it, given that self doesn't exist, going around and trying to alleviate people of their selves is nonsensical. Nobody is trying to alleviate people of their selves. The task is to alleviate people from the belief in a self. Why just self? Why not all belief? |
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Post by question on Aug 4, 2012 13:13:16 GMT -5
Nobody is trying to alleviate people of their selves. The task is to alleviate people from the belief in a self. Why just self? Why not all belief? Not sure I understand your question. Different people have different interests and specialize in different areas, which is why they concern themselves with certain beliefs and not with others. |
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Post by topology on Aug 4, 2012 13:45:15 GMT -5
Why just self? Why not all belief? Not sure I understand your question. Different people have different interests and specialize in different areas, which is why they concern themselves with certain beliefs and not with others. Belief in a self seems to get special attention, but any belief which doesn't align with reality interferes with the flow of life. The belief or attitude that others must "drop their belief in a self" interferes with the flow of life. The belief that the free market will always self-correct and not ruin the ecosystem is erroneous. The belief that your favorite politician won't be corrupted is erroneous. There are a certain set of beliefs which facilitate life, where I last left my keys, who I have appointments with, where X is located relative to Y, etc. but most other beliefs interfere, are unnecessary or erroneous. A belief in a separate self is just one kind of erroneous belief, but giving it special treatment over other erroneous beliefs is to miss the mark. |
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Post by question on Aug 4, 2012 15:02:24 GMT -5
Not sure I understand your question. Different people have different interests and specialize in different areas, which is why they concern themselves with certain beliefs and not with others. Belief in a self seems to get special attention, but any belief which doesn't align with reality interferes with the flow of life. The belief or attitude that others must "drop their belief in a self" interferes with the flow of life. The belief that the free market will always self-correct and not ruin the ecosystem is erroneous. The belief that your favorite politician won't be corrupted is erroneous. There are a certain set of beliefs which facilitate life, where I last left my keys, who I have appointments with, where X is located relative to Y, etc. but most other beliefs interfere, are unnecessary or erroneous. A belief in a separate self is just one kind of erroneous belief, but giving it special treatment over other erroneous beliefs is to miss the mark. That's what I said. Different people give special attention to different beliefs. So what? |
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Post by topology on Aug 4, 2012 15:34:04 GMT -5
Belief in a self seems to get special attention, but any belief which doesn't align with reality interferes with the flow of life. The belief or attitude that others must "drop their belief in a self" interferes with the flow of life. The belief that the free market will always self-correct and not ruin the ecosystem is erroneous. The belief that your favorite politician won't be corrupted is erroneous. There are a certain set of beliefs which facilitate life, where I last left my keys, who I have appointments with, where X is located relative to Y, etc. but most other beliefs interfere, are unnecessary or erroneous. A belief in a separate self is just one kind of erroneous belief, but giving it special treatment over other erroneous beliefs is to miss the mark. That's what I said. Different people give special attention to different beliefs. So what? The disparity can be dysfunctional. |
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Post by question on Aug 4, 2012 15:41:05 GMT -5
That's what I said. Different people give special attention to different beliefs. So what? The disparity can be dysfunctional. What disparity? I still don't get your point. It would be easier for me to understand you if you weren't so cryptic. |
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Post by topology on Aug 4, 2012 16:58:35 GMT -5
The disparity can be dysfunctional. What disparity? I still don't get your point. It would be easier for me to understand you if you weren't so cryptic. The obsessive focus that the Ruthless Truth organization and it's membership had on the thought "There is no self" was imbalanced and unhealthy to the point of causing dysfunction. The leader quit due to several hospitalizations due to his obsession. My encounters with the acolytes were that they were highly programmed, coming across as if they were operating from an image of "anti-self". |
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Post by question on Aug 5, 2012 3:26:48 GMT -5
The leader quit due to several hospitalizations due to his obsession. That's pointless speculation. Some people create hobby groups centered around self, some people make hobby groups centered around no-self. So what? RT was a group of folks interested in the fact that there is no self, they were also interested in transmitting this knowledge, they have learned certain strategies of how to make people aware of the fact of no-self. Now RT seems to have broken up into several groups each pursuing different ways of teaching. I see nothing dysfunctional there. |
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Post by topology on Aug 5, 2012 8:00:57 GMT -5
The leader quit due to several hospitalizations due to his obsession. That's pointless speculation. Some people create hobby groups centered around self, some people make hobby groups centered around no-self. So what? RT was a group of folks interested in the fact that there is no self, they were also interested in transmitting this knowledge, they have learned certain strategies of how to make people aware of the fact of no-self. Now RT seems to have broken up into several groups each pursuing different ways of teaching. I see nothing dysfunctional there. Before Ciarin put the arena content back up for 24 hours, there was a manic post about how everyone in the organization was a poser because they were not self-sacrificing to the cause to the extent that he was, that he had been to the hospital a few times due to stress and that he pulled the plug because no one else was wanting to contribute, pay the pound of flesh, put some money where their mouths were to keep the org up and running. That post has since been deleted. Ciarin now offers himself up as a consultant for self-busting. I guess manic posts aren't good for business and having some semblance of being worth interacting with. You said Giraffe spotting was based on a Giraffe. Being obsessive about making others see the truth about "no-self" is on some level viewing the self as real. Who needs to remove an illusion? And yet, come hell or high water, the RT folks are on a mission to free the Earth of all thoughts of self. Not much different than a group forming dedicated to making sure every boy and girl understands that Santa Clause is not real. While its true that children can grow up without believing in Santa Clause, can a child develop and become an independent agent without developing a self-concept and believing they exist independent of the world? |
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Post by question on Aug 5, 2012 8:30:08 GMT -5
That's pointless speculation. Some people create hobby groups centered around self, some people make hobby groups centered around no-self. So what? RT was a group of folks interested in the fact that there is no self, they were also interested in transmitting this knowledge, they have learned certain strategies of how to make people aware of the fact of no-self. Now RT seems to have broken up into several groups each pursuing different ways of teaching. I see nothing dysfunctional there. Before Ciarin put the arena content back up for 24 hours, there was a manic post about how everyone in the organization was a poser because they were not self-sacrificing to the cause to the extent that he was, that he had been to the hospital a few times due to stress and that he pulled the plug because no one else was wanting to contribute, pay the pound of flesh, put some money where their mouths were to keep the org up and running. That post has since been deleted. Ciarin now offers himself up as a consultant for self-busting. I guess manic posts aren't good for business and having some semblance of being worth interacting with. You said Giraffe spotting was based on a Giraffe. Being obsessive about making others see the truth about "no-self" is on some level viewing the self as real. Who needs to remove an illusion? And yet, come hell or high water, the RT folks are on a mission to free the Earth of all thoughts of self. Not much different than a group forming dedicated to making sure every boy and girl understands that Santa Clause is not real. While its true that children can grow up without believing in Santa Clause, can a child develop and become an independent agent without developing a self-concept and believing they exist independent of the world? What I see is that you don't like Ciaran (not 'Ciarin'), RT, the athiests and a ton of other stuff that I'm sure you will tell us about soon enough and then you confabulate a bunch of bogus reasons (blah blah capitalists, blah psychos, blah Santa Clause blah blah, giraffes blah) to justify your aversion. If you don't like RT then just stay away from it. |
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Post by topology on Aug 5, 2012 9:21:24 GMT -5
ruthlesstruthdotcom.blogspot.com/?m=1Before Ciarin put the arena content back up for 24 hours, there was a manic post about how everyone in the organization was a poser because they were not self-sacrificing to the cause to the extent that he was, that he had been to the hospital a few times due to stress and that he pulled the plug because no one else was wanting to contribute, pay the pound of flesh, put some money where their mouths were to keep the org up and running. That post has since been deleted. Ciarin now offers himself up as a consultant for self-busting. I guess manic posts aren't good for business and having some semblance of being worth interacting with. You said Giraffe spotting was based on a Giraffe. Being obsessive about making others see the truth about "no-self" is on some level viewing the self as real. Who needs to remove an illusion? And yet, come hell or high water, the RT folks are on a mission to free the Earth of all thoughts of self. Not much different than a group forming dedicated to making sure every boy and girl understands that Santa Clause is not real. While its true that children can grow up without believing in Santa Clause, can a child develop and become an independent agent without developing a self-concept and believing they exist independent of the world? What I see is that you don't like Ciaran (not 'Ciarin'), RT, the athiests and a ton of other stuff that I'm sure you will tell us about soon enough and then you confabulate a bunch of bogus reasons (blah blah capitalists, blah psychos, blah Santa Clause blah blah, giraffes blah) to justify your aversion. If you don't like RT then just stay away from it. Blah blah blah stay away from it blah blah blah.  |
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Post by stepvhen on Sept 3, 2012 15:11:12 GMT -5
That's pointless speculation. Some people create hobby groups centered around self, some people make hobby groups centered around no-self. So what? RT was a group of folks interested in the fact that there is no self, they were also interested in transmitting this knowledge, they have learned certain strategies of how to make people aware of the fact of no-self. Now RT seems to have broken up into several groups each pursuing different ways of teaching. I see nothing dysfunctional there. Before Ciarin put the arena content back up for 24 hours, there was a manic post about how everyone in the organization was a poser because they were not self-sacrificing to the cause to the extent that he was, that he had been to the hospital a few times due to stress and that he pulled the plug because no one else was wanting to contribute, pay the pound of flesh, put some money where their mouths were to keep the org up and running. That post has since been deleted. Ciarin now offers himself up as a consultant for self-busting. I guess manic posts aren't good for business and having some semblance of being worth interacting with. You said Giraffe spotting was based on a Giraffe. Being obsessive about making others see the truth about "no-self" is on some level viewing the self as real. Who needs to remove an illusion? And yet, come hell or high water, the RT folks are on a mission to free the Earth of all thoughts of self. Not much different than a group forming dedicated to making sure every boy and girl understands that Santa Clause is not real. While its true that children can grow up without believing in Santa Clause, can a child develop and become an independent agent without developing a self-concept and believing they exist independent of the world? Who cares? I paid to get that forum put back up for a ay and I don't even care half as much as you are pretending not to. I worked there for 2 years and you still care more than me. What's going on? Are you lonely? You can immerse yourself in my ramblings and it might feel like a conversation with another human. www.burningtrue.com |
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Post by enigma on Sept 5, 2012 17:10:47 GMT -5
Not sure I understand your question. Different people have different interests and specialize in different areas, which is why they concern themselves with certain beliefs and not with others. Belief in a self seems to get special attention, but any belief which doesn't align with reality interferes with the flow of life. The belief or attitude that others must "drop their belief in a self" interferes with the flow of life. The belief that the free market will always self-correct and not ruin the ecosystem is erroneous. The belief that your favorite politician won't be corrupted is erroneous. There are a certain set of beliefs which facilitate life, where I last left my keys, who I have appointments with, where X is located relative to Y, etc. but most other beliefs interfere, are unnecessary or erroneous. A belief in a separate self is just one kind of erroneous belief, but giving it special treatment over other erroneous beliefs is to miss the mark. The reason the belief in a separate self is given special attention is that all suffering is the result of that belief and the various beliefs, attitudes and actions that arise from that. It deserves special attention. |
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