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Post by angela on Dec 21, 2010 2:31:53 GMT -5
it's fascinating to become free of even the need for freedom itself. stopping at just "no self" is an eddy, a dam, a waystation. from there, we get drunk on emptiness, drunk on not existing. i know, i did it to myself for almost a year before i snapped out of it. i think the RT folks are doing something awesome, really helping people take that First Step. but also, when there is no self..... what remains? if the answer, if the end, is just no self, then we got a little literal on reading ole mister mckenna and forgot that his other big piece of advice was Think For Yourself And Figure Out Whats True. okay. there's no self. yes, that's a big, huge realization and maybe nothing that will ever touch our minds will be that big again. it's like, gigantic. but beyond a point, there doesn't remain anyone or anything left to be fascinated by no self. when you touch in with That which remains, in a universe without a self.... the whole idea of there being no self becomes a non-issue. you have no thoughts, no remaining fascination, with a thing that doesn't exist. it's like, i don't spend days and hours fascinated by the non existence of flying toasters, you know? please, don't be so arrogant, so stuck on your own beliefs that you won't humble yourself enough to be really liberated, and then to really act as the liberators you feel drawn to being. true humility, the ability to always, always know that anything you can ever possibly think about anything is always, always wrong..... well. it's priceless. (all these statements included. hahaha!  ) |
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Post by iris on Dec 21, 2010 11:27:10 GMT -5
Beautiful post Angela. Regarding flying toasters, speak for yourself. I for one am still fascinated by their non-existence  |
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Post by frankshank on Dec 21, 2010 11:50:55 GMT -5
Angela's post resonated with me more than any other post in this thread. Most of the other posts were 'taking sides' posts that just seemed to be missing the point. I am a toaster and I do fly but that's my only quibble!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2010 12:55:48 GMT -5
please, don't be so arrogant, so stuck on your own beliefs that you won't humble yourself enough to be really liberated, and then to really act as the liberators you feel drawn to being. true humility, the ability to always, always know that anything you can ever possibly think about anything is always, always wrong..... well. it's priceless. priceless advice, like iris' Truth At All Cost. one of the things going on at RT is that folks are Looking, investigating what is true and what is not while luring folks into the First Step it's a messy place with a big heart in the right place |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 21, 2010 14:04:03 GMT -5
Nicely put Angela! ;D Michael true humility, the ability to always, always know that anything you can ever possibly think about anything is always, always wrong..... well. it's priceless. |
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Post by joan on Dec 21, 2010 15:25:46 GMT -5
it's fascinating to become free of even the need for freedom itself. stopping at just "no self" is an eddy, a dam, a waystation. from there, we get drunk on emptiness, drunk on not existing. i know, i did it to myself for almost a year before i snapped out of it. i think the RT folks are doing something awesome, really helping people take that First Step. but also, when there is no self..... what remains? if the answer, if the end, is just no self, then we got a little literal on reading ole mister mckenna and forgot that his other big piece of advice was Think For Yourself And Figure Out Whats True. okay. there's no self. yes, that's a big, huge realization and maybe nothing that will ever touch our minds will be that big again. it's like, gigantic. but beyond a point, there doesn't remain anyone or anything left to be fascinated by no self. when you touch in with That which remains, in a universe without a self.... the whole idea of there being no self becomes a non-issue. you have no thoughts, no remaining fascination, with a thing that doesn't exist. it's like, i don't spend days and hours fascinated by the non existence of flying toasters, you know? please, don't be so arrogant, so stuck on your own beliefs that you won't humble yourself enough to be really liberated, and then to really act as the liberators you feel drawn to being. true humility, the ability to always, always know that anything you can ever possibly think about anything is always, always wrong..... well. it's priceless. (all these statements included. hahaha! ) angela, You are the most clear and wonderful poster, and my favorite teacher on this board. Please stick around a long time---that is, if you feel drawn to being a liberator! |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 21, 2010 17:11:37 GMT -5
Well be careful the idea that you or something needs liberation is just another trap for you or anyone. It might seem like a nicer trap, nevertheless just as lethal to keep you where you are.
Michael
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Post by joan on Dec 21, 2010 18:50:13 GMT -5
relax, Michael, it was just a little joke.  |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 21, 2010 18:55:51 GMT -5
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iris
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Post by iris on Dec 22, 2010 13:37:13 GMT -5
one of the things going on at RT is that folks are Looking, investigating what is true and what is not What do you think it is that blinds you from seeing it now? while luring folks into the First Step Do you really think that's necessary? If you truly want to progress, begin by questioning your beliefs (and motives) with intense honesty. |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 22, 2010 13:55:05 GMT -5
Good point..Question everything until no questions are left for you. Michael Do you really think that's necessary? If you truly want to progress, begin by questioning your beliefs (and motives) with intense honesty. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 14:11:17 GMT -5
one of the things going on at RT is that folks are Looking, investigating what is true and what is not What do you think it is that blinds you from seeing it now? Exactly. – “Looking, investigating what is true and what is not” might be better expressed as “don't be so arrogant, so stuck on your own beliefs that you won't humble yourself enough to be really liberated” while luring folks into the First Step Do you really think that's necessary? Hmmm. Is the ‘there is a mountain; Then there is no mountain; Then there is.’ a two step progression or can it just be one step? I don't know if it's necessary. Can it hurt? If you truly want to progress, begin by questioning your beliefs (and motives) with intense honesty. Yes! Do you think there is something incompatible with the RT mission and further progress? |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 22, 2010 16:16:20 GMT -5
I may be wrong cuz I don't follow this thread much but in fairness to Max I do not think it's his group. Didn't Max say that he's really not part of RT. If so I see his questions having some validity.
Michael
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Post by iris on Dec 22, 2010 16:21:28 GMT -5
What do you think it is that blinds you from seeing it now? Exactly. – “Looking, investigating what is true and what is not” might be better expressed as “don't be so arrogant, so stuck on your own beliefs that you won't humble yourself enough to be really liberated” No. It's ego (you). If you want Truth, as the name of your group claims, you must die. You are the obstacle. Do you really think that's necessary? I don't know if it's necessary. Can it hurt? What I was getting at is that your assumptions about "reality" clearly haven't been challenged. Your beliefs with respect to "reality" are flawed. Are beliefs true? What's real? If you truly want to progress, begin by questioning your beliefs (and motives) with intense honesty. Yes! Do you think there is something incompatible with the RT mission and further progress? Depends. If freeing the world makes you feel good, if keeping track of the number you have freed makes you proud or more talented than your peers, if you feel that you are right and others are wrong, if you feel attachment to the group, if you are still trying to see through the lens of no-self, then yes. You are fuc**ed. If freeing the world makes you feel like you are dying inside, and you have already forgotten about no you, then you are on the right track. Anything that strengthens the sense of self (including attachment to insight) is a trap. Don't be so arrogant to think that you are immune. You may not realize it, but you are stuck at the exact same point most get stuck at. Why do you think it is that the failure rate is nearly 100%? I was there too. I saw no-self and thought that was it. I tried to convince/help everyone I knew. Before I got too stuck I had someone encourage me to go further. Realize what you are doing is extremely common, it's expected even. You have a big heart and that's admirable. But, my advice, help 1 or 2 then leave the group. You will not make it if you don't do this on your own. Your friends at Ruthless can't help you with this. There is nothing else I or anyone else can say to you to help you beyond this point. You are on your own now. I believe that I've made my point. The choice is yours... Keep going or stall. Take care. |
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Post by frankshank on Dec 22, 2010 16:28:25 GMT -5
Who are 'we' offering advice to? This whole exercise seems like a waste of time if there is no separation!
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