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Post by m on Dec 6, 2010 5:09:30 GMT -5
maverick09: no ego, right on! But nevertheless a lot of egotistic behaviors: how comes ?
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Post by m on Dec 6, 2010 5:43:40 GMT -5
maverick09: What do you mean by "helping people"? Like pulling a flower to have it grow?
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louij
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by louij on Dec 6, 2010 10:07:35 GMT -5
hi maverick09, helping, when we asked the Master this, he said, you can help this creation by getting - out - of it. I never truly intuited what he meant very zen words... for me helping is self to self..... you are a filter to all that may take place, every moment we are FEELING or discussing or reasoning.... there does come a clear quiet space where we are just witnessing....... the mind dances,we allow the dance... but we do not connect to any outcome or debate we watch. As you just abide things start to mainline a dominent in your life twenty four seven, something you focus upon more than any other thought..... keep a journal it begins to show you the dominant energy.......... i transmute that to neither positive or negative, just look at it...... as you look at your own energy playing through... mind, ego, whatever... you will start to really laugh........ once you enter play mode like a small child again, you begin to have major fun....... if you want to help, help volunteer, i do feeding by bottle aids babies, at first it was very traumatic because they shiver and their bowls move instantly .. they are or seem unable to hold sustenance, food, their aura shivers a lot, they are discomforted entirely........ yet when you return again and again and simply fall into compassion, they seem to settle, drink, and hold the formula better, they still have runs and vomiting, but it quiets down. As your anxiety does not take hold, as you remain in the lovezone, they settle.... i do not understand aids, i feel it is a physical challenge, soul is always there....... so help, where you do the most good......... or as long as it feels achieving.....something....... so help is mayhap always you helping you....... source is always reaching to your heart centre.... to grow you...... open you........ there is no pulling on a flower at all........ grow things grow because that is the nature of the universe..... so we blend into the allness of natural things..... love love louij
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Post by maverick09 on Dec 6, 2010 13:11:32 GMT -5
maverick09: No you ? Then no truth ? Then no truth to tel anybody ? m No M. Stop responding like a kid. You are responding to your own version of it and not actually engaging with what is meant by - there is no you. There is no you means there is no self which is in existence. There is a body, mind, thoughts, emotions, awareness of it all, but there is no self which is an experiencer or owner of it all. maverick09: no ego, right on! But nevertheless a lot of egotistic behaviors: how comes ? m Hah. Jesus caused utter havoc in a temple. His actions from the point of view of your phony spiritual leaders should be judged upon as egoistic. Why? Because he chose to oppose something which was wrong. But you have been made to believe by those phony and corrupted spiritual zealots that a person of perfect inner tranquillity and enlightened state has nothing against anything. Your definition of a non-egotistical state is something like this - a person who is a yes sayer, a pacifist, a person who doesn't stand for anything - not even the truth. maverick09: What do you mean by "helping people"? Like pulling a flower to have it grow? m Dude, you make no sense. For you, I would be glad and happy just to see you help yourself, forget helping others. Seriously. |
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Post by maverick09 on Dec 6, 2010 13:18:17 GMT -5
hi maverick09, helping, when we asked the Master this, he said, you can help this creation by getting - out - of it. I never truly intuited what he meant very zen words... for me helping is self to self..... you are a filter to all that may take place, every moment we are FEELING or discussing or reasoning.... there does come a clear quiet space where we are just witnessing....... the mind dances,we allow the dance... but we do not connect to any outcome or debate we watch. As you just abide things start to mainline a dominent in your life twenty four seven, something you focus upon more than any other thought..... keep a journal it begins to show you the dominant energy.......... i transmute that to neither positive or negative, just look at it...... as you look at your own energy playing through... mind, ego, whatever... you will start to really laugh........ once you enter play mode like a small child again, you begin to have major fun....... if you want to help, help volunteer, i do feeding by bottle aids babies, at first it was very traumatic because they shiver and their bowls move instantly .. they are or seem unable to hold sustenance, food, their aura shivers a lot, they are discomforted entirely........ yet when you return again and again and simply fall into compassion, they seem to settle, drink, and hold the formula better, they still have runs and vomiting, but it quiets down. As your anxiety does not take hold, as you remain in the lovezone, they settle.... i do not understand aids, i feel it is a physical challenge, soul is always there....... so help, where you do the most good......... or as long as it feels achieving.....something....... so help is mayhap always you helping you....... source is always reaching to your heart centre.... to grow you...... open you........ there is no pulling on a flower at all........ grow things grow because that is the nature of the universe..... so we blend into the allness of natural things..... love love louij Louiji, I appreciate your way of doing things. Here's the thing with - get out of the way for helping something really - a new born kid, a new born plant, needs support to survive. All we can do then at his stage of evolution is to provide him with enough security and resources for it to evolve to a place where we can just leave him and let him be. Anything we try to do then would be more like an interference with its growth. Thats all good. No problem with that. But where I see things as wrong as this - there are many who have entered this 'spiritual' journey and search, some new, some quite experienced, and yet those who have 'made' it don't actually care enough to provide them with some kind of support and help that will help them to reach the stage of evolution where they would be good to be on their own. See? All their pretty insights isn't going to help them. A seed can't understand what an evolved tree means when it tells it about how a fruit grows. A seed needs to be fu*kin told how to grow. Stop talking about flowers n fruits n shit in front of it. This is why the emphasis on this 'no you' thing. This really is true and is actually stripped off anything mystical. There has been enough mystical bull-sh*t already. Lets cut the crap. Alright? See this 'no you' thing for real and help spread it. Help those who really need to see this first because this is the insight which will lead them into their 'awakening'. |
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Post by m on Dec 6, 2010 14:46:03 GMT -5
maverick09 : * Are you a psychic or a kind of magical guru ? * Otherwise how do you know what's going on in my head? how do you know what the others are doing or not? How do you know you better know ? * I'm wondering if the "no self" you are talking about is anything but the very first "gateless gate" on the path ? If you want to help, then please answer to my questions m maverick09: No you ? Then no truth ? Then no truth to tel anybody ? m No M. Stop responding like a kid. You are responding to your own version of it and not actually engaging with what is meant by - there is no you. There is no you means there is no self which is in existence. There is a body, mind, thoughts, emotions, awareness of it all, but there is no self which is an experiencer or owner of it all. Hah. Jesus caused utter havoc in a temple. His actions from the point of view of your phony spiritual leaders should be judged upon as egoistic. Why? Because he chose to oppose something which was wrong. But you have been made to believe by those phony and corrupted spiritual zealots that a person of perfect inner tranquillity and enlightened state has nothing against anything. Your definition of a non-egotistical state is something like this - a person who is a yes sayer, a pacifist, a person who doesn't stand for anything - not even the truth. maverick09: What do you mean by "helping people"? Like pulling a flower to have it grow? m Dude, you make no sense. For you, I would be glad and happy just to see you help yourself, forget helping others. Seriously. |
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Deleted
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Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 8:57:55 GMT -5
Ruthless Truth
Objective
-- To help as many people as possible realize/recognize/experience/investigate the truth of the illusion/assumption of identity/self/you/i/(we)
Method
-- Encouraging ‘seekers’ to verify the truth of this statement: there is no you. E.G. “There is no you. Is this true?”
Detail
– ‘verifying’ means more than just saying ‘no’ or ‘yes’ depending on the question. It means spelling out in detail how one arrived at their conclusion. Do the math.
-- ‘encouraging’ means anything and depends on the style of the one who is helping. This can involve exploring vulnerabilities, motives, assumptions, beliefs of the ‘seeker.’
-- sustained attention on the internal workings of the mind and describing one’s experience is encouraged by telling ‘seekers’ to Look, Focus, rant. Sort of like spiritual autolysis with coaching.
Structure
-- login required. This is done by sending an email to the forum admin ciaran healy
-- Two forums in ‘The Arena’
(1) The Dueling Ground – any person with a login can create a thread (‘duel’). The ‘duel’ is actually between the seeker (new participant is in green) and themselves. However, it appears that the ‘duel’ is between the seeker and an existing participant at RT (names with a blue or red color). Actually, the red or blue bloke is the coach. A coach can appear to be extremely arrogant and bullyish. A successful duel is when the seeker is killed. It can appear that the seeker is killed by the red or blue colored bloke, but actually ‘they do it’ themselves.
(2) The Pit – any person can create a thread in the pit or comment on any thread.
-- lots of links from the homepage to supporting blogs. Facebook and Twitter and other methods used to support the Forum
A few of the concerns (legitimate or not) brought up at spiritualteachers.org:
(a) this is like the Jim Jones cult. Now so-called enlightened people will have no problem killing, for example.
(b) Brainwashing is going on ( here, brainwashing is meant in the conventional sense, = bad.)
(c) the participants are being deluded by being called enlightened, liberated, awakened. The experience of verifying the truth of the statement ‘there is no you’ is not the same as liberation/enlightenment/awakening. To think so is to reinforce the delusion. One identifies with being enlightened.
(d) the objective is wrong. It should be Truth At All Cost.
(e) the objective of freeing as many people as possible supports an identification with the being a ‘liberator’ and thereby muddies truth.
(f) enlightenment is not that easy. E.G. One must meditate for 2 hours a day for years.
(g) seems to be lots of ego -induced/-fortifying infighting
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Post by m on Dec 7, 2010 10:56:41 GMT -5
Thank you maxdprophet, you have been doing quite a work to clarify. m Ruthless Truth Objective -- To help as many people as possible realize/recognize/experience/investigate the truth of the illusion/assumption of identity/self/you/i/(we) Method -- Encouraging ‘seekers’ to verify the truth of this statement: there is no you. E.G. “There is no you. Is this true?” Detail – ‘verifying’ means more than just saying ‘no’ or ‘yes’ depending on the question. It means spelling out in detail how one arrived at their conclusion. Do the math. -- ‘encouraging’ means anything and depends on the style of the one who is helping. This can involve exploring vulnerabilities, motives, assumptions, beliefs of the ‘seeker.’ -- sustained attention on the internal workings of the mind and describing one’s experience is encouraged by telling ‘seekers’ to Look, Focus, rant. Sort of like spiritual autolysis with coaching. Structure -- login required. This is done by sending an email to the forum admin ciaran healy -- Two forums in ‘The Arena’ (1) The Dueling Ground – any person with a login can create a thread (‘duel’). The ‘duel’ is actually between the seeker (new participant is in green) and themselves. However, it appears that the ‘duel’ is between the seeker and an existing participant at RT (names with a blue or red color). Actually, the red or blue bloke is the coach. A coach can appear to be extremely arrogant and bullyish. A successful duel is when the seeker is killed. It can appear that the seeker is killed by the red or blue colored bloke, but actually ‘they do it’ themselves. (2) The Pit – any person can create a thread in the pit or comment on any thread. -- lots of links from the homepage to supporting blogs. Facebook and Twitter and other methods used to support the Forum A few of the concerns (legitimate or not) brought up at spiritualteachers.org: (a) this is like the Jim Jones cult. Now so-called enlightened people will have no problem killing, for example. (b) Brainwashing is going on ( here, brainwashing is meant in the conventional sense, = bad.) (c) the participants are being deluded by being called enlightened, liberated, awakened. The experience of verifying the truth of the statement ‘there is no you’ is not the same as liberation/enlightenment/awakening. To think so is to reinforce the delusion. One identifies with being enlightened. (d) the objective is wrong. It should be Truth At All Cost. (e) the objective of freeing as many people as possible supports an identification with the being a ‘liberator’ and thereby muddies truth. (f) enlightenment is not that easy. E.G. One must meditate for 2 hours a day for years. (g) seems to be lots of ego -induced/-fortifying infighting |
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Post by stepvhen on Dec 8, 2010 23:33:42 GMT -5
A few of the concerns (legitimate or not) brought up at spiritualteachers.org: (a) this is like the Jim Jones cult. Now so-called enlightened people will have no problem killing, for example. (b) Brainwashing is going on ( here, brainwashing is meant in the conventional sense, = bad.) (c) the participants are being deluded by being called enlightened, liberated, awakened. The experience of verifying the truth of the statement ‘there is no you’ is not the same as liberation/enlightenment/awakening. To think so is to reinforce the delusion. One identifies with being enlightened. (d) the objective is wrong. It should be Truth At All Cost. (e) the objective of freeing as many people as possible supports an identification with the being a ‘liberator’ and thereby muddies truth. (f) enlightenment is not that easy. E.G. One must meditate for 2 hours a day for years. (g) seems to be lots of ego -induced/-fortifying infighting SO are you going to get off the fence and give us your own opinions here? Come on cult? Endless platitudes? This is a little thing that has helped many people. Interested? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 8:17:32 GMT -5
A few of the concerns (legitimate or not) brought up at spiritualteachers.org: (a) this is like the Jim Jones cult. Now so-called enlightened people will have no problem killing, for example. (b) Brainwashing is going on ( here, brainwashing is meant in the conventional sense, = bad.) (c) the participants are being deluded by being called enlightened, liberated, awakened. The experience of verifying the truth of the statement ‘there is no you’ is not the same as liberation/enlightenment/awakening. To think so is to reinforce the delusion. One identifies with being enlightened. (d) the objective is wrong. It should be Truth At All Cost. (e) the objective of freeing as many people as possible supports an identification with the being a ‘liberator’ and thereby muddies truth. (f) enlightenment is not that easy. E.G. One must meditate for 2 hours a day for years. (g) seems to be lots of ego -induced/-fortifying infighting SO are you going to get off the fence and give us your own opinions here? Come on cult? Endless platitudes? This is a little thing that has helped many people. Interested? me, i'm not on any fence and am beyond interested (hence my participation in this thread); my opinions have been out there from the beginning. but to be clear: (a) fear based BS (b) see (a) (c) identifying with anything is renewing the delusion. so yes i agree with the caution but disagree that this can be claimed to be what is happening at RT on the whole. results may vary. arguing about language is a fools game. (d) excellent objective, not at all incompatible or mutually exclusive (e) yes, see (c). however, methinks freeing as many people as possible in this way is not such a bad idea and can not hurt at all. also, 'as many people as possible' has probably more to do with where a "liberator" finds themselves in terms set and setting and marginal time, etc. versus will or effort. (f) see (a) but who am i to judge? i remember hearing a zen story about a total idiot (mentally retarded) who was hit by a stick by some young bully monks who teased him by saying "when you get hit by this stick you'll realize complete awakening..hahaha" yep, he realized complete awakening at the instant of being hit by the stick. bring on the stick. (g) i see this too -- and NOW -- but it doesn't matter mdp |
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Post by maverick09 on Dec 9, 2010 12:48:10 GMT -5
maverick09 : * Are you a psychic or a kind of magical guru ? * Otherwise how do you know what's going on in my head? how do you know what the others are doing or not? How do you know you better know ? There is nothing going in your head I am sure of that. How did I come to that conclusion? Its not rocket science. Any other person with as little intelligence as a monkey would come to the same conclusion. Dude listen, its not that I am trying to tell you all about my 'superior' methods, its just common sense. People who are into 'spirituality' have tied themselves to apathetic laziness and they call that peace. Their compassion is nothing more than pity. Because true compassion would be compelled to act. Pity on the other hand is utterly useless and more like an insult. Maybe. Maybe not. Find out yourself. I don't want to step into the BS arguements about how there is only the journey and no fixed destination and crap, just do the work and you will know. |
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Post by maverick09 on Dec 9, 2010 13:15:34 GMT -5
(a) this is like the Jim Jones cult. Now so-called enlightened people will have no problem killing, for example. The truth in the statement 'there is no you' does not absolve one of responsibility. Brainwashing means to make people accept things without their questioning intelligence, its not the case at Ruthless Truth. Identification? Is 'identification' with being human unenlightened? What about 'identification' with being 'one with god'? Is it still unenlightened because it is an identification? The objective to see truth at all times is wrong? Do you know the story of Buddha and why he broke away from his religion (he was a hindu) and searched for truth and spread it himself? Buddhism was a big F-you to Hinduism. Search the answer why. Is enlightenment a trade? Is it that you need to buy enlightenment with your 2hr meditation for 20 years before you get enlightened? Did Eckhart Tolle meditate for years together before he got enlightened? Jeez. [/quote] Riiight.... I don't even want to waste my time with answering this. See? You got your answer. |
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Post by stepvhen on Dec 9, 2010 19:01:10 GMT -5
me, i'm not on any fence and am beyond interested (hence my participation in this thread); my opinions have been out there from the beginning. but to be clear: Ugh duhhh Uhm where is the identification? Why do you ASSUME we are identified with anything It's got nothing to do with language. Thank you |
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iris
New Member
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Post by iris on Dec 11, 2010 8:24:05 GMT -5
m, I don't know why you hesitate. This thread has been up for weeks. Part of awakening is realizing no-self. I wouldn't get caught up with the Ruthless crowd, but they do have this "no you" thing down.
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Post by stepvhen on Dec 12, 2010 16:03:56 GMT -5
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