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Post by michaelsees on Dec 2, 2010 21:52:42 GMT -5
Hey mate. Its interesting that you acknowledge that we have infact recognized the fact that there is no-self but we still have a huge ego. It's one thing to know what you are not. That's the easy part. It's another to know what you are. Is that what you think? That this is about blissing out? Deepening was a poor choice of words. This is not a state that you deepen. If any of you actually reach the point where you have the opportunity go "deeper", I doubt that many of you will actually follow through. In the mean time you will be running around misleading others. This is a falling away of everything. Losing yourself, losing your reality. There is nothing pretty about it. More like insanity really. They don't tell you that. but whats more important for the world right now is to recognize the truth of 'no you'. You is an untruth. The mind can easily get that. But what is true? See the truth first, then decide if you want to take this to the world. Most will not want this.
You say consider the possibility that you don't exist. To you I say consider the possibility that you haven't even started.
Keep going.[/quote]
Thank you Iris finally a member that knows exactly what waking up is.
Thank you
Michael- |
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Post by dreamerrach on Dec 3, 2010 1:19:39 GMT -5
Very interesting group that Ruthless Truth. It's clear to me you guys have awakened. I think you guys are doing a good thing, but at the same time are a bit delusional. To claim that realizing no-self is the end all is absurd. I encourage you guys to go further and focus on your own awakening. Don't fall into the trap of believing that no-self is it as I think most of you have. Can see clearly now. No way is it done. It's not as if this realization is sought so we could then sit back and enjoy it. No. This is not all; this is not goal to then stagnate around. Where do you get idea this is end-all, the final word? I don't see that sense at all. |
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Post by m on Dec 3, 2010 2:19:27 GMT -5
If your "waking up" is the end of any egotistic drive and only a start, then that make sense for me as well. And till now I never red anything giving me the idea anyone could be "awakened" (in the sense I mean, on this forum. m Hey mate. Its interesting that you acknowledge that we have infact recognized the fact that there is no-self but we still have a huge ego. It's one thing to know what you are not. That's the easy part. It's another to know what you are. Is that what you think? That this is about blissing out? Deepening was a poor choice of words. This is not a state that you deepen. If any of you actually reach the point where you have the opportunity go "deeper", I doubt that many of you will actually follow through. In the mean time you will be running around misleading others. This is a falling away of everything. Losing yourself, losing your reality. There is nothing pretty about it. More like insanity really. They don't tell you that. You is an untruth. The mind can easily get that. But what is true? See the truth first, then decide if you want to take this to the world. Most will not want this.
You say consider the possibility that you don't exist. To you I say consider the possibility that you haven't even started.
Keep going.
Thank you Iris finally a member that knows exactly what waking up is.
Thank you
Michael-[/quote] |
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Post by howtalk on Dec 3, 2010 3:21:55 GMT -5
didn't want to repost all that he said earlier
but michael's post at the top of this page is an extremely valuable one
not just for the basic pointer of how "no self" is a rather, umm, unpleasant finding for the body-mind
but how quickly we will want to turn that seeing into "something" that we can go out there and show everyone or tell everyone, rather than allow the expereince to be- well how to say it, integrated...which is an entire new ballgame
great post
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iris
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Post by iris on Dec 3, 2010 3:54:08 GMT -5
Where do you get idea this is end-all, the final word? I assume you are from Ruthless Truth. You don't exist. So what? Let me ask you this, have you already confirmed that this world, that you claim needs freeing, exists? Let me put things into perspective for you... Putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger would be like a walk in the park compared to what true awakening really is. Now, assuming that you get that far, and assuming that this world exists, how many people in this world do you think want to experience that? I was too quick to judge earlier. Now that I see the scope of what you guys are doing, I realize that NONE of you are actually interested in truth. If you want to awaken, truth at all cost should be your motto. And I assure you, the cost of truth is everything. Anyone who tells you otherwise has no idea what they are talking about or are lying through their teeth. Do you still want to play games with that group of yours? Or do you want the truth? I hope that you feel really silly right now, you need to hear this. |
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Post by frankshank on Dec 3, 2010 6:48:28 GMT -5
There seems to be a lot of 'we get it and you don't' going on here. Why does it matter? If the members of the ruthless truth have only just started on their journey and their egos are running wild so what? If they stay at that level for the rest of their lives so what? None of it matters. Let them play. They seem to be having lots of fun.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 7:40:17 GMT -5
Where do you get idea this is end-all, the final word? I assume you are from Ruthless Truth. You don't exist. So what? Let me ask you this, have you already confirmed that this world, that you claim needs freeing, exists? Let me put things into perspective for you... Putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger would be like a walk in the park compared to what true awakening really is. Now, assuming that you get that far, and assuming that this world exists, how many people in this world do you think want to experience that? I was too quick to judge earlier. Now that I see the scope of what you guys are doing, I realize that NONE of you are actually interested in truth. If you want to awaken, truth at all cost should be your motto. And I assure you, the cost of truth is everything. Anyone who tells you otherwise has no idea what they are talking about or are lying through their teeth. Do you still want to play games with that group of yours? Or do you want the truth? I hope that you feel really silly right now, you need to hear this. Iris, your posts are great. Exactly what I was looking for when logging into this site. What would you say is a next step or whatever? MDP |
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Post by kakistos on Dec 3, 2010 8:19:04 GMT -5
Iris and michaelsss, I know what you're talking about. I've seen the edges of it (so to speak). And in the space of 3 months after recognising that i don't exist. Thing is, its not one you can communicate to other people, at least not effectively. I know a guy thats free, not much longer than me, and he's been staring that one down for the last few days. And he is about as spiritually practiced as i am, that is to say... not at all.
Its a deeper truth, cool, something to experience, and not one i'm claiming to have had. but the thing is. recognition of no self. even if you don't call it enlightenment, what it most certainly is, is freedom.
You go ahead and call how we behave egoic if you like, and really. it is, quite frankly... so what? I mean, its not like I (for example) don't see through this egoic stuff with the same ease as i see through the persistent use of the word "I" in this paragraph. As i said, no interest in appearing enlightened to save face (lol at that thought), simply interested in freeing people.
And for the most part, you can only really engage with an ego on its level. I'm sorry but "There is no you, contemplate the lily" simply ISN'T as effective as "There is no you, look you stupid motherfucker". This is simply a pure objective perspective using the method that suits best for the purpose.
Telling people you love them and ACTUALLY showing them are 2 very different things.
Basically. chill the fuck out about how you feel about how we're saying shit and look at what we're actually saying. Yeah, after you recognise no self, you, on a personal basis kinda go "meh, yeah, duh, whatever" but, it changes how you think and feel about things to something more in alignment with reality and allows a sort of objective mental freedom that lets you pick apart what you consider to be real. Self is basically the entire foundation of delusion. whatever way you want to refer to that.
Basically the point is, we don't get all philosophical about the simple fact that worldwide, people are being raped and murdered by lies. And wont be so self satisfied as to ever be ok with that. And when given a tool to exact a change on that fact, will not use that very tool to narcotise ourselves to the screams.
And if you wanna think we're resting on that realisation. sure, some are, thats their choice, Others aren't, me for example, does that change the effect of recognising that there is no experiencer behind the experience? No, it doesn't. And tbh if you don't see the value in this recognition then i would put it to you that you haven't actually had it yet. Look. Really, I do it all the time, just for the giggles, one of the cooler meditations actually.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
- Albert Einstein
*Wanders off*
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Post by iris on Dec 3, 2010 12:35:52 GMT -5
What would you say is a next step or whatever? You already know this. Recognize everything as false. When all that's false has been burned, only truth will remain. Trust the process. |
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Post by iris on Dec 3, 2010 12:40:57 GMT -5
Lastly, watch out for traps. Anything you can identify with is a trap. Burn it all.
Girlfriends, Freeing the world, etc...
In other words, don't get comfortable in your own skin. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 3, 2010 13:15:17 GMT -5
Sorry js not got online now. Please not the post below is not mine but Iris". I believe in every word that is why I re-posted it. Iris writes better than I! Michael Hey mate. Its interesting that you acknowledge that we have infact recognized the fact that there is no-self but we still have a huge ego. It's one thing to know what you are not. That's the easy part. It's another to know what you are. Is that what you think? That this is about blissing out? Deepening was a poor choice of words. This is not a state that you deepen. If any of you actually reach the point where you have the opportunity go "deeper", I doubt that many of you will actually follow through. In the mean time you will be running around misleading others. This is a falling away of everything. Losing yourself, losing your reality. There is nothing pretty about it. More like insanity really. They don't tell you that. You is an untruth. The mind can easily get that. But what is true? See the truth first, then decide if you want to take this to the world. Most will not want this.
You say consider the possibility that you don't exist. To you I say consider the possibility that you haven't even started.
Keep going.
Thank you Iris finally a member that knows exactly what waking up is.
Thank you
Michael-[/quote] |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 13:23:31 GMT -5
What would you say is a next step or whatever? You already know this. Recognize everything as false. When all that's false has been burned, only truth will remain. Trust the process. and Lastly, watch out for traps. Anything you can identify with (attachments) is a trap. Burn it all. Girlfriends, Freeing the world, etc... In other words, don't get comfortable in your own skin. You can't have your cake and eat it too. got that everyone? thanks Iris! |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 3, 2010 13:47:40 GMT -5
Frankshank you need to look a little deeper than this. No matter what anyone thinks I assure you it is dangerous to anyone to have them awake to the fact there is no-self without prior meditation, spiritual interest, humble spirit. In other words lets say I came up with a mechanical system that will assure you when your done with this system you will see you do not exist. Think about this for a moment. Do you see any problem with this and don't use the copout it's all illusion anyway. If a man comes through the door and shoots your child in the head and he kills himself I will tell you the last thing you will think of will never be it's a illusion. Make no mistake this world is real. This world only becomes unreal when you give up your life. That is the only way out. This is what is meant to die while living So given this these newbies get this no-self right away. They call this freedom right freedom to do anything in this world and not be accountable. This is not freedom it's anarchy at the highest level and it will not end up well. So this is the reason I do not support groups like this unless they teach personal integrity, help your neighbor, do no harm, with freedom comes more responsibility and more. Teach this first and then use your system not the other way around for it's foolish and very irresponsible like giving a person a loaded gun without any directions on how to use it and when to use it. This is my basic reason I against groups as RT. I am not concerned about the truth as I and others have shown them what the truth requires. But I am concerned about the harm they can do. In short it's called brain washing. A good hypnotist can do the same in 1 session. The other concern is it will be very hard for anyone once they have finished your system and get this "freedom" to do any kind of real spiritual work Sorry I tend to be more bold and frank than Iris however it matters not just that you listen and understand. Most members on this site are very sincere about knowing the truth and what it takes. When I hear stuff like there is no such thing as a sincere person seeker until you are enlighten then you could called yourself since from people in RT it just makes me pissed. Michael There seems to be a lot of 'we get it and you don't' going on here. Why does it matter? If the members of the ruthless truth have only just started on their journey and their egos are running wild so what? If they stay at that level for the rest of their lives so what? None of it matters. Let them play. They seem to be having lots of fun. |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 3, 2010 14:30:10 GMT -5
What Iris has written and myself gives you some info abet not much of what is ahead for you if you wish to actually know, realize and be truth.
Some say it's just ideas, it s very different for everyone meaning it may only be the way we have written to a few but many will not go through this.
I suggest anyone that has a real interest to understand more read this book. This is the only book that I know of that has ever been written that not only tells you the general stages you go through but is a dialogue from a master and disciple. This disciple already had 12 years of kryia yoga under his belt before he even walked on the path of searching for nonduality. The book gives you first hand knowledge of what happens to a seeker and the master response.www.4shared.com/document/bzNKi20B/Autobiography_of_a_Jnani.htmlmichael
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Post by iris on Dec 3, 2010 16:00:12 GMT -5
recognition of no self. even if you don't call it enlightenment, what it most certainly is, is freedom. You are a slave to the idea of freedom. Basically. chill the f**k out about how you feel about how we're saying nuts and look at what we're actually saying. I have. Long ago. Unlike you I kept going. And if you wanna think we're resting on that realisation. The fact that insist on sharing what you have found means that you have. All realizations are meaningless if you don't discard them and push forward. Realizations are in fact attachments. And tbh if you don't see the value in this recognition then i would put it to you that you haven't actually had it yet What value is there in moving from one prison cell to the next? You are in no-self prison. You have propped up your legs and made yourself very comfortable there. Trust me when I say this. There will be many more traps along the way. You are very lucky to be hearing this. You may not get this opportunity again.Open your eyes to what I am saying. The mind/ego thrives on the idea that it has found truth. Realize that you are your own worst enemy. The moment that you feel comfortable, you are being lied to. Leave everything behind, even your silly realizations. Don't stall. Keep going and don't look back. This is the best advice that you will ever receive. |
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